JonnyLove Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 I have a outstanding debt with a bank (Personal Loan). The other day I called them up to say i had moved and also at the same time can they send me a copy of my credit agreement as I had lost it and just wanted it for my records. Now the other day I get a letter from them stating that they do not have a copy of it. This got me thinking. Basically I have done a bit of Googling and found other similar situations where people have had the amount written off because they cannot prove that I have an agreement with them as they cannot produce the original (or even a copy) of the agreement that i signed. What I want to know is do I have a legal case to bring to them to cancel the loan as it stands and if so how would I go about it. any help from anyone (expecially and legal eagles) would be appriciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 If you owe them money, shouldn't you pay it? Not a big fan of this 'find a loophole' culture we've got nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 7 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 July, 2009 If you owe them money, shouldn't you pay it? Not a big fan of this 'find a loophole' culture we've got nowadays. I do tend to agree but thats not what I was asking was it. I have no problem paying it but I want to know where I stand legaly and if I decided to do how to go about sorting it out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baj Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 If you owe them money, shouldn't you pay it? Not a big fan of this 'find a loophole' culture we've got nowadays. I do tend to agree but thats not what I was asking was it. What I want to know is do I have a legal case to bring to them to cancel the loan as it stands and if so how would I go about it. Actually, that's exactly what you were asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draino76 Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 I wouldn't bother paying. Ask them in writing for a copy of the credit agreement. When they write back saying they have no agreement, produce this at your CCJ hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 7 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Actually, that's exactly what you were asking. I was actually asking for help and advice not for people to jump on their soap boxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 I was actually asking for help and advice not for people to jump on their soap boxes Have you not visited this forum before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 7 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Have you not visited this forum before? Yes but it's always down for maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 7 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 July, 2009 I wouldn't bother paying. Ask them in writing for a copy of the credit agreement. When they write back saying they have no agreement, produce this at your CCJ hearing. the only issue is that this will cause issues on my credit file as they will take a while for the bank to accept that they must remove them from my file. (this seems to be the main case when googling). but at least someone has suggested something reasonable anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barfy Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Crouchie's Lawyer is the one to ask here, but if I remember correctly, if they haven't got a copy of the signed loan agreement, there is a technical breach of the law which could result in the agreement being cancelled. As I say though, try and attract the attention of Crouchie's Lawyer (if that's what he's still called...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickfinks Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Yes you have a legal case IMO, however you have a morale duty to pay what you owe, nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Good Luck to you Jonny, fV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 fuk the banks as they would fuk you if they could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 With the money you 'save' by not repaying what you owe, you could purchase a nice new wardrobe like this one, and your transformation into a Pikey will be complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 With the money you 'save' by not repaying what you owe, you could purchase a nice new wardrobe like this one, and your transformation into a Pikey will be complete. Is that Barry the Briefcase on his summer hols? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 It would appear that your bank failed to comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that as such your credit agreement (if taken out prior to 1st April 2007) is invalid. Yes it is a loophole, but a loophole created by the bank themselves. There are many thousands of cases where banks foreclose on loans and mortgages where with a little help to the borrower, someone's home may be saved. Remember, the banks are out to make as much money as possible from their customers and, as in all businesses, make a mistake and someone jumps up to bite you on the arse. I am sure many posters on here could remember a time when they made a mistake at work (forgot to make a phone call, posted a letter a day late etc.) and someone else took advantage and they lost out on a deal. The same with the banks. If they make a mistake, tough. They deserve to be screwed. There is no moral outrage here, just plain dog-eat-dog. Go for it, and f*ck them; it's their own fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denzil Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Pay the money you gypo, it's people like you who push interest up on loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 I was actually asking for help and advice not for people to jump on their soap boxes Futile asking something like that on here then mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Yes you have a legal case IMO, however you have a morale duty to pay what you owe, nuff said No he doesn't. However, he does have a moral duty to pay it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Think about IF in the future you need to borrow money again, what will your Bank say to you then ? Probably tell you politely to get paxoed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 7 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Regardless of moral duty or such like I have sent them a letter asking for more information to the missing credit agreement. As apparently they are also in breach of the data protection act and also apparently money laundering regulations (apparently they must keep the CCA for 6 years starting at the end of the agreement). Look lets put it this way to the all the name calling. You would and you know you would get out if it if you could. And anyway I am just looking to see if it happens I have no problem paying but if they have broken the law then it is their issue not mine. I follow the law and I bet loads of you do and get annoyed when things don't go your way. Anyway I'll let you know the response if you want and also if anyone can help with any legal advice then please get in touch to aid in what my rights may be and also any parts of certain acts I may use incase they come back with a crap reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 7 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Think about IF in the future you need to borrow money again, what will your Bank say to you then ? Probably tell you politely to get paxoed. thankfully it's not my main bank. But regardless they have to remove all data relating to the agreement and any reference to any credit agency's and show as satisfied so it will not affect my rating or file if it is terminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlehead Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 You would and you know you would get out if it if you could. You certainly don't speak for me you dishonourable scumbag. I would honour my agreed commitments because I'm a man of my word and not a filthy pikey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 i would **** the bank. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbury Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 What made you request the CCA 'for your records'? Could it possibly have been reading that this is a good scam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 It's simple. Just send them something like this : The Loan Company Company House, Church Street, Newtown, Kent, R1 7HG Account No: 4563210025897412 Dear Sir/Madam With reference to the above agreement, we would be grateful if you would send us a copy of this credit agreement and a full breakdown of the account including any interest or charges applied. We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [sections 77-79], we are entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement and a statement of account on request. We enclose a payment of £1 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. We understand a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days. We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act. We look forward to hearing from you. Yours faithfully Mr A N Other Stuff any moral obligation crap, the banks have been milking customers for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 Have you not visited this forum before? Clearly not !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 7 July, 2009 Share Posted 7 July, 2009 By the way I have worked for both the National Debtline and the CAB part time. Some of the tricks banks try to pull are incredible, trouble is unless you know how to deal with them then it is difficult. http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 8 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 8 July, 2009 What made you request the CCA 'for your records'? Could it possibly have been reading that this is a good scam? Actually I quite like to make sure I have all my important documents and I lost them when I moved so wanted another copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 8 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 8 July, 2009 By the way I have worked for both the National Debtline and the CAB part time. Some of the tricks banks try to pull are incredible, trouble is unless you know how to deal with them then it is difficult. http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/ Thanks I sent a similar letter after trawling moneysaving expert that someone put me on. I may well be in touche if they try something funny. (also I just wonder how many people today will be calling their banks requesting for their CCA. I wonder if saints tried it? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I Stuff any moral obligation crap, the banks have been milking customers for years. LOL. Banks may or may not have been 'milking' customers for years, but these customers made / make a conscious decision whether or not to enter into a credit agreement. If you are too stupid to read and understand the terms of that agreement and sign up to pay ridiculous charges, then whose fault is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbury Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 LOL. Banks may or may not have been 'milking' customers for years, but these customers made / make a conscious decision whether or not to enter into a credit agreement. If you are too stupid to read and understand the terms of that agreement and sign up to pay ridiculous charges, then whose fault is that? This is far too much like taking personal responisbility for your own actions. Yes, I'm sure 'the banks' royally shaft 'us' on a regular basis. Yes, you will probably be better off if you milk the system. I think we'd be better off in a far more restrictive society where most people are boring and tow the line and where you'd be in the local paper if you forgot to put your bin out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 LOL. Banks may or may not have been 'milking' customers for years, but these customers made / make a conscious decision whether or not to enter into a credit agreement. If you are too stupid to read and understand the terms of that agreement and sign up to pay ridiculous charges, then whose fault is that? Utter tosh TBH. Banks frequently give wrong advice to customers many of whom have been with them for many years. Then when the proverbial hits the fan who is there to "bail them out", the banks of course who are usually very selective in what they tell the customers who are relying on them to give them the full picture. A bit gullible maybe but not stupid to accept what banks decide to tell you. Sadly the Banking industry has changed markedly over the past 15-20 years and long gone are the days when you could actually speak to someone you knew. So take the moral highground if you chose, that is your prerogative but you'll have to accept that not everyone agrees with that perspective and clearly I'm one of them and that's based on many cases I've seen where the banks have simply chosen to ride roughshod over a Banking code which is so ineffectual as to be pretty worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 It's the bank's fault that the financial world came crashing down because of their greed. It's their fault it will not heal itself as quickly as they would like. The banks are only there to make as much money as possible from customers and have little or no regard for circumstances etc. What happens if you have been paying a mortgage for years and years then suddenly find yourself ill/out of work and cannot pay for a few months ?? The banks f*ck you, thats what. Add to this the fact that they were illegally over charging for people going in the red. JL, you are not a pikey, you are just well informed and well within your rights, f*ck the greedy bastards........ simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Le Taxi Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 If is Barclays could you please shaft them!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 8 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 8 July, 2009 If is Barclays could you please shaft them!! lol no it's MBNA so just as bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 10 July, 2009 Share Posted 10 July, 2009 Sorry I have taken a while to see this thread. Dont get on here much anymore. Yes JL you are in a position to effectively get your loan deemed unenforcable. The simple version is that without the original CCA, technically (if as DSM says the loan was taken out before 01.04.07) you can argue that the loan shouldnt stand. There are a lot of companies out there which will do this for you. Some charge fee's, others seemingly dont. I used to work for one of these companies, still technically do but trying to convince people this is an actual loophole which will write off their debts should they wish to and getting them to part with cash upfront is very difficult. As you can imagine, most people think it is too good to be true. F*ck what people like Rattlec*ck says, as many others have pointed out, the banks will and frequently do screw their clients. They have no regard for banking practises and law and often employ monkeys to do important jobs with poor training so mistakes are also often made. They are very poor at rectifying these mistakes if it will cost them money too. The simple fact of the matter is that they have in many cases, not complied with a legal agreement that they have made with the client. People get off with things on technicalities all the time, just look at our justice system. For what it is worth, if you follow the advice on money experts website, you should be able to do it yourself which will save you a lot of time. If you cant be bothered to do it yourself, then pay one of these companies to do it for you. It will be quicker. In terms of your credit file, the credit reference agencies are only provided information on a voluntary basis from the banks. They do not have to share that information with each other but have agreed to, to basically cover their own backs, however, there is laws (such as the banking code) which permits banks from effectively black listing you (putting a default / CCJ) against you if the debt is classed as unenforcable. However, again, this is something the banks dont give two hoots about. They have broken this rule and even after conceeding that the loan is deemed unenforcable and they wont get their money back, have tried to screw clients by messing up their credit file. If this happens, you can take them to court as they are in direct breach of the banking code. I would also note, that they can and most certainly will still chase the debt after it's deemed unenforcable. They will hope that their pressure and you possible lack of understanding will mean they can recoup some if not all of their money by constantly chasing you and possibly passing the job onto a debt recovery firm. Again, not something they are allowed to do but have total disregard for the laws. You will also need to sever all ties with the bank too because they could get sh!tty with you and be really nit picky with their dealings with you. Finally, I would note that at present, the debt will actually always appear on your credit file. I believe this is something the industry are fighting to have changed and so that when the debt is deemed unenforcable and you have the letter from the bank, it will be removed from your credit file. At present, I am led to believe the debt will still show on your file and if you are familiar with how a credit file looks you will understand the following: Bank Loan Balance £5000 Term 36 months 00000000000000UUUUUUU Im not 100% sure what the U stands for (quite possibly unenforcable, but it has been around for a while now so may not be that) but essentially it means the balance is still there but the loan has stopped. This could have issues when you come to apply for further credit as the monkey assessing your current debts will find this and put it in your outgoings (even though it isnt) so it will further boost your liabilities meaning you will have less affordability which could affect the decision. Hope that helps, if you have any more questions, feel free to PM me, although as I said, I dont get on here much anymore so may take a few days to contact you back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted 10 July, 2009 Share Posted 10 July, 2009 im with you on this, anyone that says they wouldnt get out of paying a loan back to a bank if they could is a fool! Let me think pay back my loan or walk away not having to, its a no brainer! Love this forum, full of people who jump on there soap box and take the moral ground when you know they would do the exact opposite if they had the oppertunity. Go for it mate ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 10 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 10 July, 2009 Cheers Crouchie. Thanks for the PM I may well be in touch if need be. I have sent the letter to them and await (I am expecting them to loose the letter first time round). By the way I beleive the U stands for unable to provide information as they may not have a record going that far back. Thankfully I have no other ties with this bank anyway and hate MBNA and don't like dealing with them at all if possible. I shall be in touch if I have any questions on it. If anyone wants information on this I will gladly PM you the process that I am following at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 11 July, 2009 Share Posted 11 July, 2009 Yeah good luck mate let me know how you get on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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