Doctoroncall Posted 6 July, 2009 Share Posted 6 July, 2009 What a stupid thread. One hot summer doesn't mean global warming is correct just as one cool summer doesn't mean it is wrong. Global warming is a gradual trend overtime, the fluctuations between years will still exist, the range will just be higher up the scale in temperature. Global warming is so last year... it's climate change, please do keep up! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 6 July, 2009 Share Posted 6 July, 2009 It's just a natural trend, warming and cooling that the earth has done for years, we are currently between two ice ages, waiting for the next that WILL happen eventually though not in our lifetime. It all makes me laugh, the only real scientists that are backing the climate change idea are very often in some way linked to governments. Does this mean we should forget about living cleaner ?? No, not at all but it makes you wonder about all the new stealth sorry i mean green taxes we are getting. Also, i don't agree with all this fossil fuels running out malarky, so your telling me we are 100 years from the end of fossil fuels ?? Then why are the major power producing companies not going f'n mental to protect the future of their own product ?? Simple, they are not really worried. They do spend a lot on it... http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article597662.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 25 July, 2009 Share Posted 25 July, 2009 Oh dear....Things just aint going right for big Al these days....No wonder he's been keeping so quiet recently 3 of Australia's most respected scientists complete a recent study and conclude..... "That mean global tropospheric temperature has for the last 50 years fallen and risen in close accord with the SOI of 5–7 months earlier shows the potential of natural forcing mechanisms to account for most of the temperature variation." http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JD011637.shtml As for Al........LMFAO, Poor boy......http://www.climatedepot.com/a/2071/Gores-hometown-in-Summer-Shiver-Nashvilles-Record-Cold-Breaks-1877-Temp-Record-Set-when-Rutherford-B-Hayes-was-President http://www.whnt.com/news/sns-ap-tn--recordcool,0,4032125.story Just remember folks, its perfectly ok to point and laugh at the 'man made global warming' wack jobs y'all come across from day to day...They bought all the ridicule heading their way entirely by themselves....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 25 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2009 Good old George! On another note, I spent £10,000 yesterday on advertising by placing statutory public notices in newspapers that announce a planning application has been submitted for a new 290MW biomass-fired renewable energy power plant. The ads will appear on Wednesday and Thursday in the Daily Telegraph, Yorkshire Post, Selby Times and London Gazette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 25 July, 2009 Share Posted 25 July, 2009 (edited) Well that paper certainly seems to support the 'alphabet' theory... Anything But Carbon Dioxide Also, the counter to it's conclusions...http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/is-our-whole-dissembly-appeared/ Mark Morano, who edits the Climate Depot site is a well known man made climate change sceptic, who has a personal 'issue' with Al Gore; and there is nothing in the theory of MMCC that says you cannot have these unusual cold snaps, in fact they have been predicted in some models. I would also recommend, for those who have the time, this site : http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how_to_talk_to_a_sceptic.php Just remember folks; If, just if, the theories are correct, New Orleans' population will be swimming to work, ( St G take note ;-):-) ) Edited 25 July, 2009 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbul Posted 26 July, 2009 Share Posted 26 July, 2009 Also, what the hells the Indepedent Police Complaints Commission got to do with it? There was me thinking it was the Investment Planning Counsel of Canada. Global warming cause by our endeavours is a crock. And it pokes me off 'cos the the powers that be have jumped on it and are using it as an excuse to stealthily tax everybody up to the hilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Bizzle Posted 26 July, 2009 Share Posted 26 July, 2009 Global warming is absolute ********. The Earth is constantly changing and the same process of climate change would occur without human input. We're meant to be in an ice age at this moment in time as we and we are currently 10,000 years overdue. It is finally coming round and none of the lefty ****s and scientists can stop it. It's nature FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 26 July, 2009 Share Posted 26 July, 2009 Oh dear....Things just aint going right for big Al these days....No wonder he's been keeping so quiet recently 3 of Australia's most respected scientists complete a recent study and conclude..... "That mean global tropospheric temperature has for the last 50 years fallen and risen in close accord with the SOI of 5–7 months earlier shows the potential of natural forcing mechanisms to account for most of the temperature variation." http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JD011637.shtml As for Al........LMFAO, Poor boy......http://www.climatedepot.com/a/2071/Gores-hometown-in-Summer-Shiver-Nashvilles-Record-Cold-Breaks-1877-Temp-Record-Set-when-Rutherford-B-Hayes-was-President http://www.whnt.com/news/sns-ap-tn--recordcool,0,4032125.story Just remember folks, its perfectly ok to point and laugh at the 'man made global warming' wack jobs y'all come across from day to day...They bought all the ridicule heading their way entirely by themselves....... Wow, a whole total of THREE scientists, it must be true then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 26 July, 2009 Share Posted 26 July, 2009 Wow, a whole total of THREE scientists, it must be true then Nope....Just 3 more peeps at the top of their field to add to the near 'weekly' growing list of thousands of scientist's who are putting science before politics and 'tax payer' funded grant money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Paul C Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 Oh dear....Things just aint going right for big Al these days....No wonder he's been keeping so quiet recently 3 of Australia's most respected scientists complete a recent study and conclude..... "That mean global tropospheric temperature has for the last 50 years fallen and risen in close accord with the SOI of 5–7 months earlier shows the potential of natural forcing mechanisms to account for most of the temperature variation." http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JD011637.shtml As for Al........LMFAO, Poor boy......http://www.climatedepot.com/a/2071/Gores-hometown-in-Summer-Shiver-Nashvilles-Record-Cold-Breaks-1877-Temp-Record-Set-when-Rutherford-B-Hayes-was-President http://www.whnt.com/news/sns-ap-tn--recordcool,0,4032125.story Just remember folks, its perfectly ok to point and laugh at the 'man made global warming' wack jobs y'all come across from day to day...They bought all the ridicule heading their way entirely by themselves....... I concur. It's been pretty chilly here in QLD this winter. Was only 21 the other day. BbbRrrrrrrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 Nope....Just 3 more peeps at the top of their field to add to the near 'weekly' growing list of thousands of scientist's who are putting science before politics and 'tax payer' funded grant money And what about the tens of thousands of scientists who disagree with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/extremes/2009-07-29-seattle-heat_N.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlehead Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Anyone who thinks we can prevent 'climate change' is a retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Anyone who thinks we can prevent 'climate change' is a retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlehead Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Yes he is a retard and he does look a bit special. What's your point Colin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 (edited) Yes he is a retard and he does look a bit special. What's your point Colin? No real point as such. I just find it fascinating that the issue of climate change can be so totally polarising. Many intelligent and high profile individuals have very readily allied themselves to the 'Oh sh*t we are causing climate change' bandwagon even though there are findings going both ways, anything to seem responsible and caring I guess. Edited 30 July, 2009 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 And what about the tens of thousands of scientists who disagree with you? that is a fair point..and probably back saint goeroges point up.. that it is simply wrong to have the "default view" that climate change is all man made and that taxing us an extra £5 per plane ticket or an extra £75 a year car tax will make no difference what so ever.. infact, i am indeed a well traveled person nd seen with my very own eyes that the effort weput it equates to turning up to an aftermath of an earthquake with a dust-pan and brush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Well that paper certainly seems to support the 'alphabet' theory... Anything But Carbon Dioxide Also, the counter to it's conclusions...http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/is-our-whole-dissembly-appeared/ Mark Morano, who edits the Climate Depot site is a well known man made climate change sceptic, who has a personal 'issue' with Al Gore; and there is nothing in the theory of MMCC that says you cannot have these unusual cold snaps, in fact they have been predicted in some models. I would also recommend, for those who have the time, this site : http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how_to_talk_to_a_sceptic.php Just remember folks; If, just if, the theories are correct, New Orleans' population will be swimming to work, ( St G take note ;-):-) ) Sure, at some time in the future, New Orleans and other low lying area's may well end up under water from rising sea levels, there again they may not .....The ****ing hilarious thing though, is that peeps like you (laughs) think that 'Human beings' have any kind of control over the Nature's climatic cycles and subsequent adjustment in sea levels lol Like taking a tea spoon to bail out the Titanic ----------------------------------------------------------------------- In badgerx16's world, the Earth stood still for 5 billion years....and then those pesky humans invented the petrol engine and 200 years later the Earth was destroyed.......and the plankton and space mites lived happily ever after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 It's been almost seasonably warm today. Not quite, but almost. I wonder what that tells us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Shame that so many people need to take such opposite views, and treat as an argument to be won or lost, when it's no such thing. We'll never know the 'answer' in our lifetime, but I don't want my future generations to suffer because I was so selfish to think 'well nothing I do will make any difference, and it *might* all be bo!!ocks anyway'. In medicine, a new drug is only used once the relevent powers that be are happy that it won't cause any harm... The burden of proof lies with the drug maker to prove that it is safe - A precautionary principle rules, to ensure no harm is done. When it comes to using the worlds natural resources, burning fossil fuels, producing carbon dioxide, and living in the unsustainable way that we seem to be, the situation is somehow reversed and it seems that the burden of proof lies with those who are concerned about these issues, and no such precaution exists. IMO, that's madness... it's like saying 'Well we don't know that you'll get cancer if you continue to smoke, so carry on, and hopefully everything will be ok.' Fossil fuels are running out, so it is common sense to develop alternatives, and if they happen to be cleaner and potentially eliminate greenhouse gases, and more than likely create jobs and new industry along the way, then it can only be a good thing for everyone IMO. None of us know for certain what will happen and exactly what effect we are having or otherwise, but why take the risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Shame that so many people need to take such opposite views, and treat as an argument to be won or lost, when it's no such thing. We'll never know the 'answer' in our lifetime, but I don't want my future generations to suffer because I was so selfish to think 'well nothing I do will make any difference, and it *might* all be bo!!ocks anyway'. In medicine, a new drug is only used once the relevent powers that be are happy that it won't cause any harm... The burden of proof lies with the drug maker to prove that it is safe - A precautionary principle rules, to ensure no harm is done. When it comes to using the worlds natural resources, burning fossil fuels, producing carbon dioxide, and living in the unsustainable way that we seem to be, the situation is somehow reversed and it seems that the burden of proof lies with those who are concerned about these issues, and no such precaution exists. IMO, that's madness... it's like saying 'Well we don't know that you'll get cancer if you continue to smoke, so carry on, and hopefully everything will be ok.' Fossil fuels are running out, so it is common sense to develop alternatives, and if they happen to be cleaner and potentially eliminate greenhouse gases, and more than likely create jobs and new industry along the way, then it can only be a good thing for everyone IMO. None of us know for certain what will happen and exactly what effect we are having or otherwise, but why take the risk? of course we should not take the risk...but the government insist that the "default" view is that it is man made..simple as that... straight away alieating those who want a discussion and/or challenge the view..? why do we still go to the supermarket and able to buy bananas in plastic wrapping....sure that is one example, but actions speak louder than words IMO....so many see the issue as 'stealth tax'..to be honest, there is nothing stealthy about it... why are 4x4 drivers instantly penalised by high taxes when some 4x4 are more econimcal than smaller cars..etc.. they are small cherry picked exmaples and im sure you could easily come back wth counter arguements..but that is the point!!!! these is so much ambiguity to have the "default view" that exists at th mo... 20 years ago it was all abou CfCs 10 years ago it was all about global warming now is it all about climate change it will be about something else in the near future like I said, I am a well traveled person and seen first hand in massively polluting countries that what the average joe in little ole england is forced to do and pay for in his already ripped off existance is going to have no effect on the big old world..regardless if we should be doing the right thing or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 I completely agree that the public should not be force fed a 'default' view, because it does alienate people and prevents debate. As is obvious, I am firm believer in living a more sustainable life, but it annoys me intensely when I see the message that I try and pass on to people, damaged by those who 'preach' and turn people away, not because of the message, but how it is communicated, or rather forced down their throats. Someone has to take the lead. Some individuals try to... I try to... many others want to see governments and/or big business take the lead. Unfortunately, whilst economics rules the roost in many peoples heads, and they are blinded by short-term financial fears, I fear too few of them will take a sufficient lead to look at the longer term benefits, but that won't stop me doing my bit and continuing to encourage others to do theirs where possible. All I would do is urge people to not close themselves off to the issue just because, on a political level, they feel that they cannot debate it. Get past the politics, find out more, satisfy yourself about what impact we have had/are having/will have on our ability to sustain ourselves, and then make your choices accordingly. I won't criticise anyone who still doubts after that, but at least I can have a more informed discussion and debate it properly. Let's be honest, politics f*cks everything up... this is no exception... but that doesn't mean it's not an issue. It just means we have to try to remove the political layers to get to the real issues, and make our own minds up in our own time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/extremes/2009-07-29-seattle-heat_N.htm Same newspaper 3 weeks earlier.......http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2009-07-19-record-cold-georgia_N.htm?obref=obinsite And then we have this http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/07/23/coldjuly.ART_ART_07-23-09_B1_J3EIAKG.html?sid=101 and this http://climateresearchnews.com/2009/07/killer-cold-snap-grips-south-america/ and this http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/11/brrrr-south-america-has-coldest-winter.html y'see, any one can take a snap shot of the climate at any given time and paint a sensationilst story in an atempt to fool, and subsequently control the dim and gullible....The undisputed 'cold' hard facts however, are here.......http://icecap.us/images/uploads/HeatWaves_Icecap.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Further to your slightly snide 'in badgerx16's world' comments; in 'my world', comments like Minty's above represent my view. Nobody is 'fooling' me - I am an educated, intelligent, independently thinking individual, who can review the situation and come to a conclusion and point of view that I am satisfied with. The fact that you may take a differing view does not cause me any loss of sleep However it does seem to me that YOUR view is summarised by the following : I'm all right jack. It won't affect me in my lifetime, so why should I bother ? If the Government say it, it MUST be wrong. Damn' tree-hugging lefties getting all concerned above the poor defenceless critters. .................... As with any debate, there are 2 main perspectives, and the reality is in all certainty somewhere in between. You seem to take the position that you are on a personal crusade to ridicule anybody who does not follow your lead, or attempts to present evidence that is equally as plausible as that you are promoting with such zeal. And as for mankind's ability to screw up the world, I suspect that you are probably, as I am, in the age-group which grew up under the shadow of Mutually Assured Destruction and the 4-minute warning, so yes, we do have the power to leave the world suitable only for spiders and the like. Peace and Love :smt060 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Shame that so many people need to take such opposite views, and treat as an argument to be won or lost, when it's no such thing. We'll never know the 'answer' in our lifetime, but I don't want my future generations to suffer because I was so selfish to think 'well nothing I do will make any difference, and it *might* all be bo!!ocks anyway'. In medicine, a new drug is only used once the relevent powers that be are happy that it won't cause any harm... The burden of proof lies with the drug maker to prove that it is safe - A precautionary principle rules, to ensure no harm is done. When it comes to using the worlds natural resources, burning fossil fuels, producing carbon dioxide, and living in the unsustainable way that we seem to be, the situation is somehow reversed and it seems that the burden of proof lies with those who are concerned about these issues, and no such precaution exists. IMO, that's madness... it's like saying 'Well we don't know that you'll get cancer if you continue to smoke, so carry on, and hopefully everything will be ok.' Fossil fuels are running out, so it is common sense to develop alternatives, and if they happen to be cleaner and potentially eliminate greenhouse gases, and more than likely create jobs and new industry along the way, then it can only be a good thing for everyone IMO. None of us know for certain what will happen and exactly what effect we are having or otherwise, but why take the risk? Your standpoint looks reasonable at first glance but basicaly only if the scenario is this .... Humans maybe causing climate change and if Humans change their ways then maybe climate change will stop. So the subsequent bankrupting of economies and necessary 3rd world lifestyles are a step worth taking just in case The reality however is this....The Climate has 'always' been changing...always has and always will....Regardless of human beings living on this planet or not. We know that for a fact! If its time for the Earth to get hot then it will...and living in mud huts aint gunna make one damned speck of difference....To think man can control nature and the actions and cycles of the Sun is ludicrous and nothing more than fantasy of biblical proportions....Think Moses parting the sea and Jesus feeding the 5.000... History shows that Humans need a religion to cling to and as the bible has gradually been debunked over the years, so Big Al's movie has moved in, as a near seamless replacement.....It didn't take certain Governments long to latch on and feed the frenzy and use it to control and tax the population in a similar way to religious leaders of years gone by. Depleting fossil fuels however, is a very 'real' issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junction 9 Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 St George, what are your opinions on the destruction of the rain forests and the impact that may have on the planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Your standpoint looks reasonable at first glance but basicaly only if the scenario is this .... Humans maybe causing climate change and if Humans change their ways then maybe climate change will stop. So the subsequent bankrupting of economies and necessary 3rd world lifestyles are a step worth taking just in case 'Bankrupting of economies' and 'third world lifestyles' are not 'necessary'. To say that is as bad, if not worse, than the preaching previously referred to... scaremongering at it's finest. With a bit of thought and application, emerging technologies can provide the basis for a modern economy. Moderation may well be required in terms of lifestyle, but then that's no bad thing... most modern human civilisations consume far too much with too little thought for how that lifestyle is sustained anyway... even ignoring climate change, human consumption (and waste) will have to be reduced if we are to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlehead Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Our days are numbered anyway, f*ck it let's enjoy ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 10 August, 2009 Share Posted 10 August, 2009 Things that make you go hmmmmmhe clever peeps anyway http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climate-data-top-secret/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 11 August, 2009 Share Posted 11 August, 2009 Things that make you go hmmmmmhe clever peeps anyway http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climate-data-top-secret/ I found the comment string below the article most entertaining, especially the posts from the Judeo-Bolshevik conspiracy theorists. Have to admit though, something very strange seems to have happened on the Met Office FTP server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 11 August, 2009 Share Posted 11 August, 2009 Your standpoint looks reasonable at first glance but basicaly only if the scenario is this .... Humans maybe causing climate change and if Humans change their ways then maybe climate change will stop. So the subsequent bankrupting of economies and necessary 3rd world lifestyles are a step worth taking just in case The reality however is this....The Climate has 'always' been changing...always has and always will....Regardless of human beings living on this planet or not. We know that for a fact! If its time for the Earth to get hot then it will...and living in mud huts aint gunna make one damned speck of difference....To think man can control nature and the actions and cycles of the Sun is ludicrous and nothing more than fantasy of biblical proportions....Think Moses parting the sea and Jesus feeding the 5.000... History shows that Humans need a religion to cling to and as the bible has gradually been debunked over the years, so Big Al's movie has moved in, as a near seamless replacement.....It didn't take certain Governments long to latch on and feed the frenzy and use it to control and tax the population in a similar way to religious leaders of years gone by. Depleting fossil fuels however, is a very 'real' issue Whilst scientists can often be wrong I think it would be foolish to ignore the opinions of the vast majority. Climate has changed throughout history but that doesn't mean that what is happening now is not caused by us. There is absolutely nothing we can do about it now anyway, if the scientists are right we are past the tipping point and the positive feedbacks will accelerate the warming anyway. The whole world could stop ALL CO2 production tomorrow - wont make alot of difference. Best just carry on as we are and adapt to the effects, the UK may even benefit from the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Trubble Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 Food for thought or poppy****? http://bbc5.tv/eyeplayer/video/peter-taylor-climate-change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 (edited) Oh dear....Things just aint going right for big Al these days....No wonder he's been keeping so quiet recently 3 of Australia's most respected scientists complete a recent study and conclude..... "That mean global tropospheric temperature has for the last 50 years fallen and risen in close accord with the SOI of 5–7 months earlier shows the potential of natural forcing mechanisms to account for most of the temperature variation." http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JD011637.shtml As for Al........LMFAO, Poor boy......http://www.climatedepot.com/a/2071/Gores-hometown-in-Summer-Shiver-Nashvilles-Record-Cold-Breaks-1877-Temp-Record-Set-when-Rutherford-B-Hayes-was-President http://www.whnt.com/news/sns-ap-tn--recordcool,0,4032125.story Just remember folks, its perfectly ok to point and laugh at the 'man made global warming' wack jobs y'all come across from day to day...They bought all the ridicule heading their way entirely by themselves....... A climate change denier from New Orleans... When the city was doing a passable impression of Atlantis, did you not even the briefest pause for thought? Edited 31 October, 2009 by Verbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 A climate change denier from New Orleans... Tight call that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 Our days are numbered anyway, f*ck it let's enjoy ourselves. What he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 one thing I detest about all this climate change malarky (notice it is not gloabal warming anymore)..is how we can be "taxed" on it and people are allowed on such places like the BBC and say climate change is MAN MADE as a matter of "fact".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 Anyone who thinks we can prevent 'climate change' is a retard. I think you actually are spot on there, climate change is going to happen (only a fool would think they know better than the scientific community). If what the scientists say is true then the way politics works means that there is NO chance whatsoever of it being avoided. The governments bleat on about global warming yet the mugs in charge of the UK plan enlargements of airports etc. China are building coal fired power stations at a rate you wouldn't believe (I think it's the equivelent to increasing by the UK's total coal power stations every year). India etc are industrializing at a fast rate, Brazil keeps on butchering the rainforests. Anything we do is just a **** in the ocean, FORGET trying to combat it, ACCEPT there is going to be changes and ADAPT. That is the sensible way to deal with it. The UK will probably be one of the least effected and might actually benefit from global warming. we should be focusing on predicting the changes and working out how to live with a changed climate. Trying to make a difference by recycling a few plastic bags and driving a slightly less polluting car is pointless and futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 why are 4x4 drivers instantly penalised by high taxes when some 4x4 are more econimcal than smaller cars..etc.. I liked that bit the best... Delldays, could you please show me a 4X4 (and by this I assume you mean a Land Rover-esque vehicle, as opposed to a Fiat Panda 4X4) and a small car, where the 4X4 is "more economical" but the small car is taxed lower. I'm on the lookout for a new car so it woul help me enormously with my purchasing decision... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 I liked that bit the best... Delldays, could you please show me a 4X4 (and by this I assume you mean a Land Rover-esque vehicle, as opposed to a Fiat Panda 4X4) and a small car, where the 4X4 is "more economical" but the small car is taxed lower. I'm on the lookout for a new car so it woul help me enormously with my purchasing decision... Thanks do your own donkey work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 do your own donkey work But I'd really like your help. You see, I'm not even sure the sooper 4X4 you mention actually exists and it would be unfair for you to keep it all to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 A climate change denier from New Orleans... When the city was doing a passable impression of Atlantis, did you not even the briefest pause for thought? Why would it?.....A Hurricane hit New Orleans, just as they have been doing since the beginning of time and waaay before man ever walked on this planet. Only this time we were made to pay for some dumb and stupid civil engineering decisions from the 60's and 70's....Building levees in the Delta that cut off the flow of silt to the Wetlands, and building a **** off great shipping canal, along with huge drainage canals that acted like funnles, forcing the 20' storm surge right into to the heart of the City. Sure, it was 'Man' that caused the flooding, but nothing to do with man effecting the climate. Fortunately level heads prevailed after. We didn't all dump our trucks and turn off our AC systems and close the Oil lines from the Gulf and start paying a 'Green' tax and feel good about our selves for stopping 'man made' climate change and started living in mud huts blissful ignorance.......No, we attacked the problem scientifically and a lot of lessons were learnt...We closed and filled in the MRGO Shipping canal....We built gates and pumps at the entrance to the drainage canals, strengthened and redesigned some of the Levee's where they didn't work to spec....and are repairing the erosion of the Wetlands and working on schemes to allow the Mississippi to once again flood the Delta and deposit its silt where it had been for thousands of years..... Lucky we all didn't take much notice of the left wing media or we may well have been getting our mud huts washed away sometime in the future. To say the devestation caused by Katrina was caused by 'man made' global warming is to deny that hurricains of similar strength, or stronger have never made landfall on the Gulf Coast before 100-200 years ago..... As i've said many many times before, Climate change will happen with man here or not....Time to start putting rescorces towards 'dealing' with it rather than the religious like frenzy of trying to stop it....Aint gunna happen, trust me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 Aint gunna happen, trust me! I would rather trust the Scientists thanks, and whilst they don't all say the same thing the vast majority have agreed that man is contributing to climate change, though there is little agreement on how severve or quick it will happen. Of course there is a chance they are wrong but they are the experts so it would be foolish to ignore their views. The scientific community are fully aware of natural variations in temperature when the draw their conclusions, that's why the odd cold winter or freak weather here and there fit right in with their prediction models. i'm not that arsed about it though, the effect here in England wont be that bad, parts of the US could be ****ed tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 We didn't all dump our trucks and turn off our AC systems and close the Oil lines from the Gulf There's almost a logic here - if we get through all the hydrocarbon fuels as quickly as possible, then when it's all gone our production of CO2 will effectively come to an end as there is nothing left to burn, and the problem of man's contribution to climate change will be solved. Admittedly we'll probably all be sitting in a desert, or under the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simples Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 There's almost a logic here - if we get through all the hydrocarbon fuels as quickly as possible, then when it's all gone our production of CO2 will effectively come to an end as there is nothing left to burn, and the problem of man's contribution to climate change will be solved. Admittedly we'll probably all be sitting in a desert, or under the sea. Great thinking. All of mans CO2 will stop. That means that a MASSIVE 2% of CO2 will cease, thereby curing climate change. Oh, hold on. Nearly 98% of the CO2 entering our atmosphere is produced NATURALLY, BY the PLANET. Read the FACTS, by the MAJORITY of INDEPENDANT scientists, and not be fooled and whitewashed into thinking what the government WANT you to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 Great thinking. All of mans CO2 will stop. That means that a MASSIVE 2% of CO2 will cease, thereby curing climate change. Oh, hold on. Nearly 98% of the CO2 entering our atmosphere is produced NATURALLY, BY the PLANET. Read the FACTS, by the MAJORITY of INDEPENDANT scientists, and not be fooled and whitewashed into thinking what the government WANT you to believe. Don't SHOUT at a TONGUE-IN-CHEEK post, getting a little dig in at our redneck chum across the pond. However, the problem with trying to use statistics in this sort of argument is that whilst we produce a comparatively small amount of CO2, look at it like this; If the Earth naturally produces 100 "units" of CO2 in a period of time, ( from volcanoes or whatever ), Mother Nature has historically found way of soaking this up, generally by growing trees in the rain forests and starting 'blooms' of algae and phyto-plankton in the seas. Mother Nature might also be able to cope with the additional 2 "units" produced by man, but the problem these days is that we are chopping down the rain-forests and polluting the seas, which kills off the algae and plankton, so not even the Earth's own 100 units are no longer getting 'soaked' up. MMCC is not simply down to our production of CO2 from hydrocarbons, it's our interference with the balance that otherwise exists to absorb it. Oh, I forgot to add,----- FACT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 Why would it?.....A Hurricane hit New Orleans, just as they have been doing since the beginning of time and waaay before man ever walked on this planet. Only this time we were made to pay for some dumb and stupid civil engineering decisions from the 60's and 70's....Building levees in the Delta that cut off the flow of silt to the Wetlands, and building a **** off great shipping canal, along with huge drainage canals that acted like funnles, forcing the 20' storm surge right into to the heart of the City. Sure, it was 'Man' that caused the flooding, but nothing to do with man effecting the climate. Fortunately level heads prevailed after. We didn't all dump our trucks and turn off our AC systems and close the Oil lines from the Gulf and start paying a 'Green' tax and feel good about our selves for stopping 'man made' climate change and started living in mud huts blissful ignorance.......No, we attacked the problem scientifically and a lot of lessons were learnt...We closed and filled in the MRGO Shipping canal....We built gates and pumps at the entrance to the drainage canals, strengthened and redesigned some of the Levee's where they didn't work to spec....and are repairing the erosion of the Wetlands and working on schemes to allow the Mississippi to once again flood the Delta and deposit its silt where it had been for thousands of years..... Lucky we all didn't take much notice of the left wing media or we may well have been getting our mud huts washed away sometime in the future. To say the devestation caused by Katrina was caused by 'man made' global warming is to deny that hurricains of similar strength, or stronger have never made landfall on the Gulf Coast before 100-200 years ago..... As i've said many many times before, Climate change will happen with man here or not....Time to start putting rescorces towards 'dealing' with it rather than the religious like frenzy of trying to stop it....Aint gunna happen, trust me! Nice to read some common sense comments for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 (edited) Great thinking. All of mans CO2 will stop. That means that a MASSIVE 2% of CO2 will cease, thereby curing climate change. Oh, hold on. Nearly 98% of the CO2 entering our atmosphere is produced NATURALLY, BY the PLANET. Read the FACTS, by the MAJORITY of INDEPENDANT scientists, and not be fooled and whitewashed into thinking what the government WANT you to believe. If it's all a government ploy to increase taxes, what is the EU's motivation for agreeing to give £90mill in development finance to the worlds poorer countries to help fight climate change? I expect there are some scientists with political agendas, there is also possibly a motivation to eggagerate the problem to get additional funding but I think you will find the vast majority are sandal wearing bearded geeks who's only motivation is to find out what's going on. And as these people draw their conclusions from experiments and information gathered first hand, rather than reading the odd feature on the internet, I would be inclined to believe them. Edited 31 October, 2009 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 31 October, 2009 Share Posted 31 October, 2009 Also, please don't forget that CO2 is not the only 'greenhouse' gas: Nitrous Oxide levels have increased 18% in the last 200 years, from a fairly static level held for the previous 11000 years, and N2O is estimated to be over 300 times as effective as a greenhouse gas than CO2. About one third of N2O entering the atmosphere is due to human activities. Methane is over 20 times as effective as CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Since 1750, global levels of atmospheric NH4 have increased by 150%. Other chemicals enhancing the greenhouse effect are Chloroflourocarbons, whose levels are starting to slowly decrease as they have been widely phased out of industrial processes; and the flourinated gases used to replace CFCs. Whilst not destroying the ozone, like CFCs do, these flourinated gases trap more heat in the atmosphere than equivalent amounts of CO2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 1 November, 2009 Share Posted 1 November, 2009 On the plus side, a sea level rise of 7 meters pretty much wipes Portsmouth off the map. http://flood.firetree.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbury Posted 1 November, 2009 Share Posted 1 November, 2009 On the plus side, a sea level rise of 7 meters pretty much wipes Portsmouth off the map. http://flood.firetree.net/ 5 metres should do the trick, losing almost all of Holland as a consequence is a shame, but that's the price you have to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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