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Posted
Why must the two be mutually exclusive ??

 

Yes, I still feel that administration was the way forward. EVEN NOW.

 

However, I couldnt legislate or have anticipated the CRETINOUS timing of the administration decision. 6 days after the deadline. Absolutely f**king ridiculous, and I said back then the club would pay dearly for that.

 

If we take Pinnacle/Lynam at face-value for the moment (yes, I know its dubious...), if we had gone into admin 6 days earlier, all the issues that prevented their deal from going through WOULD NOT HAVE EXISTED.

 

Spot on, a decision that had terrible consequences and which we are paying for now. Makes you wonder as to the motives of the timing.

Posted
Spot on, a decision that had terrible consequences and which we are paying for now. Makes you wonder as to the motives of the timing.

 

But if Lowe & Co. were so adamant that we wouldn't get the 10 points docked then surely the timing didn't matter to them? In the end it happened because Barclays turned out to be c*nts to us. But yes looking back now it would have made things so much easier now had we gone into admin before the cut off date, but then again the FL would still be looking at docking us 17 points this season anyway.

 

I just don't know what to think anymore, this whole sorry saga has drained & deflated me to the point where i just want to wash my hands of it all but i know i just can't do this. Couldn't even get to sleep last night til silly o'clock because its driving me completly insane, and im sure most others on here!

Posted
But if Lowe & Co. were so adamant that we wouldn't get the 10 points docked then surely the timing didn't matter to them? In the end it happened because Barclays turned out to be c*nts to us. But yes looking back now it would have made things so much easier now had we gone into admin before the cut off date, but then again the FL would still be looking at docking us 17 points this season anyway.

 

I just don't know what to think anymore, this whole sorry saga has drained & deflated me to the point where i just want to wash my hands of it all but i know i just can't do this. Couldn't even get to sleep last night til silly o'clock because its driving me completly insane, and im sure most others on here!

 

Perhaps Lowe et al had a plan all along...

 

They have been very quiet since Admin.

Posted
Spot on, a decision that had terrible consequences and which we are paying for now. Makes you wonder as to the motives of the timing.

 

Revenge or hoping to get the club on the ultra-cheap perhaps.

Rupert may have been completely bamboozled by the success that bloke had at Ipswich, getting 32 million debts reduced to just 7 million or so.

 

Anyway what does it matter any more, the execs told us 18 months ago that we were on the road to ruin and that players had to be sold, we didn't sell anybody just loaned them out and surprise surprise we're fooked.

Blokes who seem to be more competent than anybody we've had lately spelt it out letter by letter for us, we did f all and now it's too late, the club is finished.

Hoos is doing a good job at Leicester it would seem.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/2014007.hone_had_his_sums_right/

Posted
They have been very quiet since Admin.

 

Hiding away from the rightful blame that would be aimed at them if one of them did open their mouths. It still makes my blood boil thinking back to the time after we'd just gone into admin when Lowe was doing his very own media round.

Posted
Hiding away from the rightful blame that would be aimed at them if one of them did open their mouths. It still makes my blood boil thinking back to the time after we'd just gone into admin when Lowe was doing his very own media round.
of course stacking up massive overdrafts had nothing to do with now. It was a cummalative problem not just one or 2 people.
Posted
Spot on, a decision that had terrible consequences and which we are paying for now. Makes you wonder as to the motives of the timing.

 

Actually it would have made no difference whatsoever.

 

We were relegated anyway, so would have had the -10 points this season. Then there is still the CVA issue - which is apparently the FL sticking point - and thus that issue would still exist.

Posted
Revenge or hoping to get the club on the ultra-cheap perhaps.

Rupert may have been completely bamboozled by the success that bloke had at Ipswich, getting 32 million debts reduced to just 7 million or so.

 

Anyway what does it matter any more, the execs told us 18 months ago that we were on the road to ruin and that players had to be sold, we didn't sell anybody just loaned them out and surprise surprise we're fooked.

Blokes who seem to be more competent than anybody we've had lately spelt it out letter by letter for us, we did f all and now it's too late, the club is finished.

Hoos is doing a good job at Leicester it would seem.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/2014007.hone_had_his_sums_right/

 

Yes you are right in fact the only player we sold for over £1m was somebody we bought after the EXECs comment which was widely rubbished at the time if I remember

Posted
However, I couldnt legislate or have anticipated the CRETINOUS timing of the administration decision. 6 days after the deadline. Absolutely f**king ridiculous, and I said back then the club would pay dearly for that.

 

Spot on, a decision that had terrible consequences and which we are paying for now. Makes you wonder as to the motives of the timing.

 

The decision to put SLH into administration was taken by the company's creditors (in this case Barclay's Bank when they refused to honour cheques). This is how these things normally happen (Leeds a few years back were an exception, as the creditors had close links with Ken Bates). So the timing of it had nothing to do with SLH.

Posted
The decision to put SLH into administration was taken by the company's creditors (in this case Barclay's Bank when they refused to honour cheques). This is how these things normally happen (Leeds a few years back were an exception, as the creditors had close links with Ken Bates). So the timing of it had nothing to do with SLH.

Of course it did. Barclays called in the administrators because Lowe pushed us over the agreed overdraft limit, as he stated at the time. Even he must have foreseen that, being the ultra sccusseful business man that he believes he is. Its not rocket science, agreed overdraft limit is exceeded bankers call in the debt. Simples.

Posted
Actually it would have made no difference whatsoever.

 

We were relegated anyway, so would have had the -10 points this season. Then there is still the CVA issue - which is apparently the FL sticking point - and thus that issue would still exist.

Before the Thursday cut-off date thingy the deduction would have applied for 2008-2009, relegated or not.

Posted
I guess so, with the ten points for last season, but we would still have the CVA issue to contend with..

Indeed. We might just as well have sold the players in January for all the difference they made.

Posted

Hopefully Fry will have learnt a lesson from this debacle.

 

From now on he should insist on direct communication from the individual who is putting up funds for any deal ie the organ grinder and not his monkey.

 

It seems all too easy for some wannabe to get proof of funds from a supposed backer and then to continue his bid long after the backers have fallen by the wayside.

 

Fry's failure to keep his eye on the ball in this regard could have cost us a football club (and the creditors the best deal).

 

Why did he allow an exclusivity deal to be signed by a middleman with some-one else's (probably Leon's) money?

Posted
It has been stated, very early in the proceedings how Fry believed, based on legal assistance, that the FA were wrong in respect of a point deduction, any buyer would have been encouraged by this and continued with that belief, no doubt after seeking further legal advice, they then go on to value the club based on an ability to appeal which the FA now want them to sign away along with exposure to further penalty.

Why has Fry not come out and reiterated his earlier beliefs ? has he and his advisors made a mistake in under estimating the FA and their own power ? it is now out there for any potential bidder to be aware that the FA will not allow appeal against -10(at the very least) so his ability to sell the club has reduced even further by Pinnacles failure and subsequent as yet revelations about the FA's conduct

I think you have hit the nail firmly on the head. Since the 19th deadline, my feelings have been more or less along the same lines. FL make the rules to obstruct all the other agreements that were probably almost there, then the prospective buyers think " hang on a minute", we're paying all this money out, and we're being told, etc, etc !!

Posted
Hopefully Fry will have learnt a lesson from this debacle.

 

From now on he should insist on direct communication from the individual who is putting up funds for any deal ie the organ grinder and not his monkey.

 

 

Quote;

 

TL; " To speed things up the administrator is now talking directly to my client"

Posted
Does Fry mean the sale of players will enable the club to pay wages, and possibly buy us some more time?

 

Its not so much about the finances now, its when the League will draw a line under this and kick us out the league which clearly they are keen to do!!

 

Thats not to mention the need to get a squad and management in place!

Posted
Its not so much about the finances now, its when the League will draw a line under this and kick us out the league which clearly they are keen to do!!

 

Thats not to mention the need to get a squad and management in place!

 

If the league still believe we are in administration then we have until october 2010 before they kick us out the league. It's about how long we have to find a buyer to negotiate our football league licence, before our finances run out. Hence the sale of players.

 

I think.

Posted
Quote;

 

TL; " To speed things up the administrator is now talking directly to my client"

 

Is that the client who had the money and then dropped out or the client who pretended he had the money but forgot he owed his Mum two months board and lodging? ;)

Posted (edited)
posted by a saints fan on POL I think

 

Received a message saying that Football League wanted to:

 

a) Add another 10pt penalty to the 10pts already deducted;

b) Add an additional 7pts to that penalty...

 

Giving us a starting point of -27 - hence the pull-outs today.

 

Don't shoot me, just passing on what I've been told. I guess the precedent was set with Luton.

Not really. Luton got 30 point deduction. 10 points were due 15 charges of misconduct over breaches on FA regulations over payments to agents. The further penalty of 20 points was due to Luton having gone into administration 3 times. On that basis anything even approaching 20 points total would be grossly unfair, but then again we are talking the Football League, so when dealing with a founder member of the breakaway FA Premier League they could do anything. My suspicion is that 17 would be the most the FL would actually consider they could get away with. Even so, at worst we would still be in the FL next season (2010-11) whereas Luton are now in the Conference.

 

Link to article regarding the Luton penalty:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/luton-town-hit-with-points-penalty-864607.html

Edited by VectisSaint
Added link
Posted
Of course it did. Barclays called in the administrators because Lowe pushed us over the agreed overdraft limit, as he stated at the time. Even he must have foreseen that, being the ultra sccusseful business man that he believes he is. Its not rocket science, agreed overdraft limit is exceeded bankers call in the debt. Simples.

 

True, but my point was that it wasn't a case of SLH (or Lowe, which amounts to the same thing at that time) picking a moment for the company to go into administration. Lowe may think he's an ultra-successful businessman but I don't buy that any more than you do. I don't think he saw it coming at all - not that it makes any difference now, I guess.

Posted

 

Thanks for that - I couldn't remember exactly how many points Luton had been deducted and why. I do recall thinking that the penalty for previous wrongdoing (the agents' fees bit) was massively harsh, given that it had happened under the previous regime and the current one had actually drawn the FL's attention to it (I think that was the case). But that's the way the FL chooses to operate - it seems almost feudal at times.

Posted

nickh

Full Member

 

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 10,740

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by saints_is_the_south

Hiding away from the rightful blame that would be aimed at them if one of them did open their mouths. It still makes my blood boil thinking back to the time after we'd just gone into admin when Lowe was doing his very own media round.

 

 

 

of course stacking up massive overdrafts had nothing to do with now. It was a cummalative problem not just one or 2 people.

 

 

 

 

I still think the trouble started when Killer got injured and we didn't replace him with another good CB. That followed with relegation and our current predicament as we wasted more money buying crap to help us out.

Posted

That is actually quite a positive statement from Mark Fry. It's about as hard a kick in the ******** as he could legally give to the Pinnacle Consortium. I think salvation lies elsewhere around the corner. Don't switch off the lights just yet. The usual outcome in deals like this is one that maximises the revenue for all concerned - and that solution includes a football club generating turnstile revenue at SMS next season.

Posted

now that we are selling off "star players" the club will be worth less, so who ever comes in to buy us now, surely sell the club for say £1m and taking on the debts of £30m this must be the way to go to keeping THE SAINTS alive?????????????/

Posted
That is actually quite a positive statement from Mark Fry. It's about as hard a kick in the ******** as he could legally give to the Pinnacle Consortium. I think salvation lies elsewhere around the corner. Don't switch off the lights just yet. The usual outcome in deals like this is one that maximises the revenue for all concerned - and that solution includes a football club generating turnstile revenue at SMS next season.

 

That's how I feel as well. Fry hasn't fancied Pinnacle since the beginning but based on their alleged higher offer felt obliged to do what could have been the best deal for creditors. It would appear however that Pinnacle were not the real deal and thankfully other developments with different consortia have been conducted parallel. Fry would have been concerned about the media's reaction to MLT's involvement not succeeding so he has added in a sweetener on the overseas consortia. His creditors will get less but it is more likely to be real money and it is still better than a wound-up club.

Posted

We owe a huge debt and vote of thanks to Leon Crouch "WELL DONE Leon and THANKS!" for sticking by our saints through thick and thin with unwavering support and importantly the investment of HIS money which he knows he will never get back, to keep our club afloat through the uncharted waters that we find our ship sailing in right now. Without his unswerving support in real terms as well as morally, Saints FC already would have been consigned to the litter bin of football history.

 

Give it three BIG ONES for Leon!

 

There's only ONE LEON CROUCH!

There's only ONE LEON CROUCH!

There's only ONE LEON CROUCH!

 

As for Matt Le Tiss.. Go easy on the guy after all he is a footballer first and foremost so don't blame him for being a little bit naive and gullible when it came to dealing with investment sharks. He is after all a really honest guy who CARES about Saints and stuck with this Club through thick and thin and didn't jump ship when the rich and mighty came a calling.

 

That sense of loyalty shines through even more today as our so-called 'loyal' players line up at the guardrail ready to step into the lifeboats with lifejackets around their necks so that they can sail safely to their next pay cheque.

 

So give it three BIG ONES for Matt as well

 

There's only ONE MATTY LE TISS!

There's only ONE MATTY LE TISS!

There's only ONE MATTY LE TISS!

Posted
We owe a huge debt and vote of thanks to Leon Crouch "WELL DONE Leon and THANKS!" for sticking by our saints through thick and thin with unwavering support and importantly the investment of HIS money which he knows he will never get back, to keep our club afloat through the uncharted waters that we find our ship sailing in right now. Without his unswerving support in real terms as well as morally, Saints FC already would have been consigned to the litter bin of football history.

 

Give it three BIG ONES for Leon!

 

There's only ONE LEON CROUCH!

There's only ONE LEON CROUCH!

There's only ONE LEON CROUCH!

 

As for Matt Le Tiss.. Go easy on the guy after all he is a footballer first and foremost so don't blame him for being a little bit naive and gullible when it came to dealing with investment sharks. He is after all a really honest guy who CARES about Saints and stuck with this Club through thick and thin and didn't jump ship when the rich and mighty came a calling.

 

That sense of loyalty shines through even more today as our so-called 'loyal' players line up at the guardrail ready to step into the lifeboats with lifejackets around their necks so that they can sail safely to their next pay cheque.

 

So give it three BIG ONES for Matt as well

 

There's only ONE MATTY LE TISS!

There's only ONE MATTY LE TISS!

There's only ONE MATTY LE TISS!

 

Your the best.;)...Up the middle for Charlie as my old mum and Dad would tell me.:)

COYRs There is still hope when we are Saints.[-o

Posted

I could NEVER blame MLT as lets face it lots of others were taken in by Pinnacle as well.

Everyone at times in their life are totally ruled by their heart and not their head, and anyone

who says otherwise should really think about what they have just said.

Posted
It has been stated, very early in the proceedings how Fry believed, based on legal assistance, that the FA were wrong in respect of a point deduction, any buyer would have been encouraged by this and continued with that belief, no doubt after seeking further legal advice, they then go on to value the club based on an ability to appeal which the FA now want them to sign away along with exposure to further penalty.

Why has Fry not come out and reiterated his earlier beliefs ? has he and his advisors made a mistake in under estimating the FA and their own power ? it is now out there for any potential bidder to be aware that the FA will not allow appeal against -10(at the very least) so his ability to sell the club has reduced even further by Pinnacles failure and subsequent as yet revelations about the FA's conduct

 

Repeat 100 times. The FA is not the FL

Posted

FWIW I really don't think MLT was ever used as anything other than a mouthpiece for Pinnacle. They ran a very clever PR campaign and simply gave him the words to say.

 

Late last week it became quite clear that he was not being told some of the details, especially about the player bonuses needing to be paid and the higher than usual wage bill in June. That set alarm bells ringing.

 

MLT did the right thing WEEKS ago, He simply said "He will support anyone that saves Saints". Don't confuse Pinnacle's manipulation of him for PR purposes with MLT's desire to see the club saved and to help ANYONE that can do that

Posted
FWIW I really don't think MLT was ever used as anything other than a mouthpiece for Pinnacle. They ran a very clever PR campaign and simply gave him the words to say.

 

Late last week it became quite clear that he was not being told some of the details, especially about the player bonuses needing to be paid and the higher than usual wage bill in June. That set alarm bells ringing.

 

MLT did the right thing WEEKS ago, He simply said "He will support anyone that saves Saints". Don't confuse Pinnacle's manipulation of him for PR purposes with MLT's desire to see the club saved and to help ANYONE that can do that

 

Agreed. And good to hear after the serial crowing by ITKs who can't resist letting us know that they've given MLT a personal ear-bashing.

Posted
FWIW I really don't think MLT was ever used as anything other than a mouthpiece for Pinnacle. They ran a very clever PR campaign and simply gave him the words to say.

 

Late last week it became quite clear that he was not being told some of the details, especially about the player bonuses needing to be paid and the higher than usual wage bill in June. That set alarm bells ringing.

 

MLT did the right thing WEEKS ago, He simply said "He will support anyone that saves Saints". Don't confuse Pinnacle's manipulation of him for PR purposes with MLT's desire to see the club saved and to help ANYONE that can do that

 

So Matt should be completely absolved for allowing his name to be used to prop up a bunch of chancers? If he had done just a small piece of diligence 5 weeks of very precious time would not have been wasted, many fans hopes dashed and by now we might have proper new owners instead of the current mess. This was serious stuff Phil and Matt's endorsement, well-intentioned as it no doubt was, has caused untold grief to the fans, dreadful worry to the employees and left us on our knees.

 

The man will always be a footballing legend but I am afraid he stuffed up big time and he could help the cause by giving us some plain answers on "these other issues" that supposedly wrecked the deal.

 

And I have to tell you the nightmare is not yet over because Lynam sent me a text Tuesday evening saying Pinnacle might yet return, so it would be good for Matt to finally renounce them.

Posted
So Matt should be completely absolved for allowing his name to be used to prop up a bunch of chancers? If he had done just a small piece of diligence 5 weeks of very precious time would not have been wasted, many fans hopes dashed and by now we might have proper new owners instead of the current mess. This was serious stuff Phil and Matt's endorsement, well-intentioned as it no doubt was, has caused untold grief to the fans, dreadful worry to the employees and left us on our knees.

 

The man will always be a footballing legend but I am afraid he stuffed up big time and he could help the cause by giving us some plain answers on "these other issues" that supposedly wrecked the deal.

 

And I have to tell you the nightmare is not yet over because Lynam sent me a text Tuesday evening saying Pinnacle might yet return, so it would be good for Matt to finally renounce them.

 

Ah well....if he texted you it must be true. Clearly Lynam is now a man to be taken very seriously.....

Posted
Of course it did. Barclays called in the administrators because Lowe pushed us over the agreed overdraft limit, as he stated at the time. Even he must have foreseen that, being the ultra sccusseful business man that he believes he is. Its not rocket science, agreed overdraft limit is exceeded bankers call in the debt. Simples.

 

Didn't Barclays reduce the overdraft by a millions pounds and then said if you don't get the borrowing down to the new level ...adios. Lowe couldn't / wouldn't do it and here we are.

Posted
Didn't Barclays reduce the overdraft by a millions pounds and then said if you don't get the borrowing down to the new level ...adios. Lowe couldn't / wouldn't do it and here we are.

 

Doesn't matter eitherway Lowe ****ed us over.

Posted
Ah well....if he texted you it must be true. Clearly Lynam is now a man to be taken very seriously.....

 

I think the only person left who does take Lynam seriously is Matt - hence my concern.

Posted
Didn't Barclays reduce the overdraft by a millions pounds and then said if you don't get the borrowing down to the new level ...adios. Lowe couldn't / wouldn't do it and here we are.

 

No I think it is the other way round Lowe reduced the debt but Barclay's reduced the overdraft limit.

 

 

Which made it impossible to continue

Posted
Perhaps Lowe et al had a plan all along...

 

They have been very quiet since Admin.

 

 

Their "Cunning Plan" is working .... they will soon be back ..... the only thing that will have changed will be the fact that we will be in Div 1 on - 10, and (I bet) with a re mortgage on the Stadium

 

 

GREAT Business Plan Lowe ........

Posted
I think the only person left who does take Lynam seriously is Matt - hence my concern.

 

 

And that surprises me ...... Even the most liberal minded of us would say that Lynam has not backed up ANYTHING he has said, yet MLT STILL seems to hang on his every word

 

And MLY is by no means a "dunce"

Posted

Watching all of this situation that has been going on for all these weeks makes me feel as bad as I did

last week when my favorite cat had to be put to sleep. :(:(

The Vet did her best and my cat rallied a bit but in the end she went downhill very fast and so before her

cancer became too painful the Vet acted in my cats best interest.

 

I think that Saints time has finally come and Mark Fry should just pull the plug, all these so called prospective

buyers have had more than long enough to buy Saints and haven't so why prolong this pretence of having

serious buyers and end the agony of the creditors, staff and fans. :(:(

Posted
now that we are selling off "star players" the club will be worth less, so who ever comes in to buy us now, surely sell the club for say £1m and taking on the debts of £30m this must be the way to go to keeping THE SAINTS alive?????????????/

Actually now that players have been sold off the club is ironically worth more. Previously these players (at least Surman) had no book value, they were intangible assets. Now their wages are off the books, and the club now has cash (although it is still a moot pioint whether that cash has actually found its way to the Club or is held by the FL/FA as is normal with all transfers).

Posted
No I think it is the other way round Lowe reduced the debt but Barclay's reduced the overdraft limit.

 

 

Which made it impossible to continue

John I usually agree with you but this contradicts Lowe's statement. he stated that the overdraft had initially been reduced but that it increased due to some payments we had to make which took us back over our agreed overdraft limit. I don't recall ever hearing that Barclays reduced our O/D limit.

Posted
Actually now that players have been sold off the club is ironically worth more. Previously these players (at least Surman) had no book value, they were intangible assets. Now their wages are off the books, and the club now has cash (although it is still a moot pioint whether that cash has actually found its way to the Club or is held by the FL/FA as is normal with all transfers).

 

Aren't we no longer a member of the FL until they agree to let us rejoin, or not? Perhaps this was one of the technicalities that MLT has referred to.

Posted (edited)
John I usually agree with you but this contradicts Lowe's statement. he stated that the overdraft had initially been reduced but that it increased due to some payments we had to make which took us back over our agreed overdraft limit. I don't recall ever hearing that Barclays reduced our O/D limit.

 

Yes I think you will find they reduced it last October so after that date we were on our way to administration.

 

 

Apparently it was £5 million when Lowe and Wilde took over

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23670913-details/Southampton+FC+fury+over+Barclays+'death+sentence'/article.do

Edited by John B
Posted

The more financially-minded may be able to confirm, putting individual consortiums aside for a mo, in simple terms are we locked in a circle of no progress?

 

No one will buy a club that isn't assured a league to play in, and to even establish a value for the club there needs to be confirmation from the authorities about the penalty situation.

 

No one will risk millions without those assurances, and the league won't give them.

 

Without them on the table, Fry's hands are tied, he will have to give the club away and the creditors he's serving will lose so much they won't accept it, so in turn the league won't give assurances about our place, so Fry will have to give us away, the creditors won't be satisfied, the league won't be happy with that, the buyers won't pay much, and round and round we go.

 

The only way to break the circle is for the league to clarify their poorly-disguised caveat about sporting sanctions, or for the buyers to trust them (!) and risk millions on what could be a league two club at any moment.

 

 

And has Kevin Keegan arrived yet? He was coming in on Rod Stewart's yacht within 48 hours I believe.

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