HAven't people gone off Pinnacle a little?

[Legod Third Coming]

See........I do blame Sky..........KP came over here with a view about our national sport. He got it right, and the demand for watching Football on the small screen went from a yearning, to a reality. They had the football clubs and authorities by the balls......now we see the damage done through greed.

 

The problem was that old adage - 'all that glisters is not gold"...

 

The FA didn't have to sell - they simply didn't have the balls to call the bigger clubs to account. They were no doubt pressured by the bigger clubs for a big slice of pie.

 

Had they the balls, they could have stood up to them and said - fine go negotiate directly, but none of your players will be eligible to play for their country (if UK nationals), you are barred from any FA competition and will have to create your own league which (by the way) will preclude you from any UEFA competitions...

 

Governing bodies of sports have a thankless task and having been, fleetingly, employed by one, I have every sympathy with them.

 

Judging the long-term interests versus short term gain is hellishly tough. I was offered incredible deals that my board refused to sanction because they were 'not in the best interests of the sport' - a sport which is now struggling massively because of infighting, inability to modernise and failure to change to adapt to the circumstances of the day.

 

We used to look at the Premiership and Champion's League and cry on how good the packaging and selling of the rights was. Ideal for those involved, but not necessarily the sport as a whole.

 

But where there is a market - a buyer and seller - you can't blame the fella who introduces one to the other and that's all SKY do.

[Nineteen Canteen]

My enthusiasm for Pinnacle has admittedly dulled but I do hope that they sort things quickly this coming week. Maybe the appearance of the Swiss on the horizon will have gelded them into realising what the whole thing is about? That they may lose this battle with the FL, then regroup and fight things from within the system? If, as they say, they have money for investment in the team then ten points may not be such a problem. i really do think the argument was more about the FL hitting us for more. As I said elsewhere I think that maybe a gentlemen's agreement has been reached.

 

Even trying to ignore the Echo articles on Fialka, yesterday's paper was particularly damning, having seen his interviews on TV do you still feel confident in Pinnacle? Or is it pure desperation and accepting anything in return for survival. IMO the 10 point issue has become a sideshow to the Lynam / Fialka middle man/more middle man set up. I don't know anything about the Swiss except maybe they have acted quite shrewdly but what I know based on what Pinnacle have said then I would prefer to risk Pinnacle being dumped by Fry. The sad thing is until Fialka was revealed I was fully behind Lynam but IMO the whole set up lost its credibility with the big reveal the man just doesn't convince me he is capable of running the club or knowing people who could.

[Mole]

Even trying to ignore the Echo articles on Fialka, yesterday's paper was particularly damning, having seen his interviews on TV do you still feel confident in Pinnacle? Or is it pure desperation and accepting anything in return for survival. IMO the 10 point issue has become a sideshow to the Lynam / Fialka middle man/more middle man set up. I don't know anything about the Swiss except maybe they have acted quite shrewdly but what I know based on what Pinnacle have said then I would prefer to risk Pinnacle being dumped by Fry. The sad thing is until Fialka was revealed I was fully behind Lynam but IMO the whole set up lost its credibility with the big reveal the man just doesn't convince me he is capable of running the club or knowing people who could.

 

Have seen this Nineteen Troll?

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4462780.Fry_happy_Fialka_wealth_is_real/?ref=rss

[NickG]

Even trying to ignore the Echo articles on Fialka, yesterday's paper was particularly damning, having seen his interviews on TV do you still feel confident in Pinnacle? Or is it pure desperation and accepting anything in return for survival. IMO the 10 point issue has become a sideshow to the Lynam / Fialka middle man/more middle man set up. I don't know anything about the Swiss except maybe they have acted quite shrewdly but what I know based on what Pinnacle have said then I would prefer to risk Pinnacle being dumped by Fry. The sad thing is until Fialka was revealed I was fully behind Lynam but IMO the whole set up lost its credibility with the big reveal the man just doesn't convince me he is capable of running the club or knowing people who could.

 

 

that can't be ignored. Why criticise if it is the option to save the club?

[AwaySaint1]

This is not about preferring one bid over another because of whom they have involved or how they behave. This has to be about WHO HAS MOST MONEY.

 

And unfortunately Mr Fry doesn't care.

 

You see, his role is to SELL THE CLUB.

 

What happens after it's sold is not his primary concern. His concern is garnering the best price for his creditors.

 

So, it may well be a case of whomever puts up the money to buy the club first, rather than who has most to invest in it thereafter.

 

Please dont muddy the water with cold hard facts.

[AwaySaint1]

The wealthier owner isn't guarenteed to spend more. The Wealtheir owner isn't guarenteed to make better decisions.

 

For me having MLT as chairman is worth the weight in gold, and in Matts case we're talking a lot of bullion.

 

I agree,you need a bloody good frontman to make a club successfull.

 

A good example is KK on his way back from Hamburg,he could of picked any club in the uk but chose us because of LM.

 

MLT could do the same thing,he would also be a great role model for the youth in joining us and coming through the ranks.

[Saint Charlie]

Remeber Fry initially chose Pinnacle over the Swiss bid. If Pinnacles was rubbish or the Swiss one was thats great then I doubt he would have done....

[aintforever]

No one knows anything about this Swiss lot so to say they are a better bet than Pinnacle is ******.

 

Whoever completes the deal will be best for the club - it's as simple as that.

[AwaySaint1]

Have seen this Nineteen Troll?

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4462780.Fry_happy_Fialka_wealth_is_real/?ref=rss

 

I am very suprised Mole that after making over 5000 posts you still have to revert to the use of the word "Troll" to get at another forum member.

 

It says far more about you than you realise and tells experienced internet users to avoid your opinion and move on at all costs.

[Mole]

I am very suprised Mole that after making over 5000 posts you still have to revert to the use of the word "Troll" to get at another forum member.

 

It says far more about you than you realise and tells experienced internet users to avoid your opinion and move on at all costs.

 

Been hacking the Saints web database lately?

[RonManager]

I am very suprised Mole that after making over 5000 posts you still have to revert to the use of the word "Troll" to get at another forum member.

 

It says far more about you than you realise and tells experienced internet users to avoid your opinion and move on at all costs.

 

I don't remember there being a troll in 'Wind in the Willows'

[Gingeletiss]

No one knows anything about this Swiss lot so to say they are a better bet than Pinnacle is ******.

 

Whoever completes the deal will be best for the club - it's as simple as that.

 

In a nutshell...............

[Nineteen Canteen]

that can't be ignored. Why criticise if it is the option to save the club?

 

A bit like having a debate on euthanasia.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Remeber Fry initially chose Pinnacle over the Swiss bid. If Pinnacles was rubbish or the Swiss one was thats great then I doubt he would have done....

 

Remember who Fry represents and if Pinnacle represented the chance to offer Fry's 'clients' a few more pence in the pound it would be obvious who he would select. The question is how they proved funding and answer that with evidence and all this unrest would disappear.

 

If you are on the streets and need the money do you take a £1 in cash or 50p with a promise of more to come?

[Gingeletiss]

Remember who Fry represents and if Pinnacle represented the chance to offer Fry's 'clients' a few more pence in the pound it would be obvious who he would select. The question is how they proved funding and answer that with evidence and all this unrest would disappear.

 

If you are on the streets and need the money do you take a £1 in cash or 50p with a promise of more to come?

 

 

See NC...........like others, you come on here and rubbish Pinnacle, based on heresay......come up with facts, and you may get some support. IMO anyone who buys Saints is fine at the Mo......and Pinnacle are in the driving seat.

[wadesmith]

The Daill Mail TV guide says that MLT is on Countdown next week, presiding over 'Dictionary corner'. What does this mean in terms of the takeover. Is there a chance they may have to, 'Pull him out of there' if the deal goes through?. What if he's halfway through the conundrum?

[david in sweden]

With Pinnacle's constant delaying tactics and the recent news that the Swiss are in town with "proper money", I can't believe there aren't more people declaring that they've lost patience with Pinnacle and that the Swiss group are now the preferred option.

Has everyone really been swayed by the MLT interview that much that all is forgiven and we still think that Pinnacle are some kind of super-consortium?

I have my doubts.

 

 

I think we have to realise that this sort of deal is rather rare, and the complexities of it are hard to define. It's not the same as a League 2 side going bankrupt, as Saints are the highest-placed club (ex CCC) maybe Leeds to meet this fate and the fact that they are not a single entity as a company (part SLH) makes it more complicated, even taking into account

the -10 pts.

 

There are other issues like the SMS arena which is also (part) of SLH - but not wholly-owned by SFC. Not to mention players who are in /out contract, those we want to keep / or release. Agents influence, outside pressures all contribute to this awkward situation. The management position is unresolved and there isn't a complete Board of Directors to steer this through anyway. Whether Mr.Fry is a football fan or not is immaterial as this is a complicated legal matter, and as he's pointed out (several times) the club SFC is only a part of a larger entity (SLH).

 

I really don't blame Pinnacle for trying to negotiate the best deal for the team next season, (even though the suspense is killing) but the having committed themselves so early in the issue, the FA can't be seen to lose face over this one, even though they realise they are on thin ice legally.

 

**(Someone ought to write a book about it afterwards and it could be the guidelines for when a Prem. club goes pear-shaped in the near future.)

 

I'd much prefer to see the Pinnacle deal go through and have some real commitment in the Boardroom (MLT) and some former Saints faces in/around the club afterwards, rather than some millonaire who puts a load of high-flying bodies in place who don't know/understand the club / culture / fans. (example Clive Woodward - clever guy and all that - but he 'aint football).

 

Sit tight a bit longer. As a last resort I'd take the Swiss cheque, but I'd still like to see MLT leading Saints in the future and that means Pinnacle.

[ART]

Remeber Fry initially chose Pinnacle over the Swiss bid. If Pinnacles was rubbish or the Swiss one was thats great then I doubt he would have done....

 

That is incorrect. The Swiss consortium entered into the picture after Pinnacle had been offered exclusitivity.

[Legod Third Coming]

The Daill Mail TV guide says that MLT is on Countdown next week, presiding over 'Dictionary corner'. What does this mean in terms of the takeover. Is there a chance they may have to, 'Pull him out of there' if the deal goes through?. What if he's halfway through the conundrum?

 

Lol - I think it's normally filmed in a six week period and then shown throughout the year. I'm sure MLT hasn't signed up for 'Countdown LIVE in 3D' or anything...

[Nineteen Canteen]

See NC...........like others, you come on here and rubbish Pinnacle, based on heresay......come up with facts, and you may get some support. IMO anyone who buys Saints is fine at the Mo......and Pinnacle are in the driving seat.

 

I am not rubbishing the bid but challenging it and sitting in the driving seat does not necessarily assume you are a good driver. I am concerned that Pinnacle by appointing MLT to help them they have pulled off a master stroke by removing the microscope from most of you but as used by Guided Missile and others.

 

All Lynam, Fialko and MLT have to do is prove to us and more importantly the club's employees how they are going to fund the takeover and I am sure they will have 100% support and commitment so for the goodwill alone why not do that?

[Gingeletiss]

I am not rubbishing the bid but challenging it and sitting in the driving seat does not necessarily assume you are a good driver. I am concerned that Pinnacle by appointing MLT to help them they have pulled off a master stroke by removing the microscope from most of you but as used by Guided Missile and others.

 

All Lynam, Fialko and MLT have to do is prove to us and more importantly the club's employees how they are going to fund the takeover and I am sure they will have 100% support and commitment so for the goodwill alone why not do that?

 

Why???? are you important??..........all they have to do, is prove it to MF,and to my knowledge (FACT), they done just that.

[eurosaint]

Time will tell if Fialka proves to be the catalyst to save or be saviour of this club. The question remains will it take 48 hours or 48 weeks but IMO if we go the Pinnacle route the Lowe years (all of them) will seem but a distant memory of happier times.

 

I suppose Fialka has a potential link to retail backing but it's hardly of Mike Ashley proportions is it? Until his wealth or access to wealth is proven in Swiss I trust.

 

Bring on the Swiss and Wotte for Football Chairman its time we started getting professional about all this instead of romantic hope and notions.

 

Philip Green ?????????

[eurosaint]

Does anyone know if the Swiss are even real?

 

Does anyone really know if they are even Swiss ??

MF has only ever talked of a potential bid from 'overseas' !

To the best of my knowledge it was the Echo who first mentioned Switzerland and it was then taken up on this board as gospel !

Could be Arabs, Yanks, Chinese or Indians for all we know TBH.

[Legod Third Coming]

Philip Green ?????????

 

Is that a random guess Dave or do you have some informed rumour??!!!!

[Saint Charlie]

That is incorrect. The Swiss consortium entered into the picture after Pinnacle had been offered exclusitivity.

 

Not true. It was reported that Pinnacle entered an exclusivity period but that it could easily have been the Swiss bid as they were also very close.

 

The two bids very certainly around at the time of exclusivity and Fry chose the Pinnacle bid.

 

The Swiss bid maybe have been slightly later on the scene but it was around before the exclusivity period was agreed.

 

SSN actually said they were the front runners before Pinnacle entered exclusivity.

 

It doesn't matter a whole load but Fry knew of the two bids and preferred, for whatever reason, the Pinnacle bid.

 

As an aside, what would a Swiss pharmacutical company want with a football club? They aren't football people afterall, and maybe its not in the best interests of the club...

 

Lets hope pinnacle seal this early this week.

[Gingeletiss]

 

As an aside, what would a Swiss pharmacutical company want with a football club? They aren't football people afterall, and maybe its not in the best interests of the club...

 

 

Perhaps they are interested as to why we played like dopes last season......mayhap they have been involved in 'testing' for a year now;)

[AwaySaint1]

Been hacking the Saints web database lately?

 

OOPS !

Sorry Mole just realised who you are.

Bit of friendly fire there from myself. :trans:

[chrisobee]

I think we all have concerns especially after the last few days but what is spin and what isn't eh? Over the last 24 hours or so there have been several climb downs in opinion and that is not just from MLT/Pinnacle. For me if the deal isn't now completed by COB Tues then Pinnacle can go and take a flying one.

 

Dear Toadhall Saint,

Please do not drag me into this. For the record I have no connection with Pinnacle or any of it's owners.

 

Thank you,

 

 

COB

[chrisobee]

The Daill Mail TV guide says that MLT is on Countdown next week, presiding over 'Dictionary corner'. What does this mean in terms of the takeover. Is there a chance they may have to, 'Pull him out of there' if the deal goes through?. What if he's halfway through the conundrum?

 

Probably got invited a long time back by Tony's brother Des but could not accept due to his Sky commitments. As for the conundrum I think he's been stuck on that for a few weeks now

[saint_stevo]

Remeber Fry initially chose Pinnacle over the Swiss bid. If Pinnacles was rubbish or the Swiss one was thats great then I doubt he would have done....

 

he is meant to be working in the best interests of the creditors.

 

on this occasion, not too sure

[Faz]

he is meant to be working in the best interests of the creditors.

 

on this occasion, not too sure

 

How can you possibly know or judge? Why would he sully his professional reputation for the sake of a Division Three Football Club?

[shurlock]

Playing devils advocate, here. Do you think MLT's association with the Pinnacle bid might have swung Fry's initial choice?

 

Remember that the existence of the Swiss bid materialised very late on and within a short space of time seemed to have caught up with Pinnacle which was already well established. However, push come to shove and with time running out, Fry concluded better the devil you know, esp with MLT's profile.

 

Shame is Le Tiss didn't have special allegiances one way or the other - his only desire was to do all he could to save the club. It just happened that Pinnacle was vocal pretty early on and seemed the horse to back.

[John B]

Playing devils advocate, here. Do you think MLT's association with the Pinnacle bid might have swung Fry's initial choice?

 

Remember that the existence of the Swiss bid materialised very late on and within a short space of time seemed to have caught up with Pinnacle which was already well established. However, push come to shove and with time running out, Fry concluded better the devil you know, esp with MLT's profile.

 

Shame is Le Tiss didn't have special allegiances one way or the other - his only desire was to do all he could to save the club. It just happened that Pinnacle was vocal pretty early on and seemed the horse to back.

 

Pinnacle are offering more money so Fry likes that

 

He may not even have met MLT

[eurosaint]

Is that a random guess Dave or do you have some informed rumour??!!!!

 

Just enjoying the fun Steve and nice to keep the banter going !

Ps. I agree with you that dosh is better than friendly faces !!!!

[shurlock]

Pinnacle are offering more money so Fry likes that

 

He may not even have met MLT

 

I might be wrong but did Fry explain his reasons for favouring Pinnacle? Assuming one moment that their wealth is real, are they in fact offering more money?

 

As far as I understand, Fry just said that they pipped the Swiss to the post and that it was a close race (which of course might have been pure bluff and brinkmanship on Fry's part). Close races have often little to do with a few pennies and pounds at the margins; and more to do with the familiarity and credibility of the bid, that the party can in fact deliver. In this case, that was arguably enhanced by Pinnacle's headstart and earlier dealings with Fry and MLT's association.

[Gingeletiss]

How can you possibly know or judge? Why would he sully his professional reputation for the sake of a Division Three Football Club?

 

It's a 'Stevoism'..........Designed to get exactly that reaction...an opinion based on no fact's at all.

 

Stevo.....explain to the audience, how you have come by that assumption!!

[up and away]

I think we have to realise that this sort of deal is rather rare, and the complexities of it are hard to define. It's not the same as a League 2 side going bankrupt, as Saints are the highest-placed club (ex CCC) maybe Leeds to meet this fate and the fact that they are not a single entity as a company (part SLH) makes it more complicated, even taking into account

the -10 pts.

 

I don't agree with that, it is exactly the same if it were any club in the FL. The complexities have been rationalised when the FL made it's decision as to SFC being in administration, so it now becomes a standard issue for applying the rules

 

There are other issues like the SMS arena which is also (part) of SLH - but not wholly-owned by SFC. Not to mention players who are in /out contract, those we want to keep / or release. Agents influence, outside pressures all contribute to this awkward situation. The management position is unresolved and there isn't a complete Board of Directors to steer this through anyway. Whether Mr.Fry is a football fan or not is immaterial as this is a complicated legal matter, and as he's pointed out (several times) the club SFC is only a part of a larger entity (SLH).

 

There is no issue here. On all parts of the debt against SLH you come to an agreement with 75% of the creditors and the rest have to take the same deal. The FL has already defined SFC as being the same entity as far as the administration rules are concerned. So any CVA has to be upon the basis of SLH, not SFC. The management board for SLH is the administrator. SLH still exists but under administration and would only cease to exist once administration is over.

 

I really don't blame Pinnacle for trying to negotiate the best deal for the team next season, (even though the suspense is killing) but the having committed themselves so early in the issue, the FA can't be seen to lose face over this one, even though they realise they are on thin ice legally.

 

**(Someone ought to write a book about it afterwards and it could be the guidelines for when a Prem. club goes pear-shaped in the near future.)

 

How are Pinnacle negotiating the best deal for the club, unless you are inferring to any borrowing to finance the deal? There will be no change from the FL, so at the end of the day what have you gained and what have you put in jeopardy? The FL are on thin ice? more like atop the Cairngorms on several thousand feet of granite.

 

I'd much prefer to see the Pinnacle deal go through and have some real commitment in the Boardroom (MLT) and some former Saints faces in/around the club afterwards, rather than some millonaire who puts a load of high-flying bodies in place who don't know/understand the club / culture / fans. (example Clive Woodward - clever guy and all that - but he 'aint football).

 

Sit tight a bit longer. As a last resort I'd take the Swiss cheque, but I'd still like to see MLT leading Saints in the future and that means Pinnacle.

 

This all has a romantic appeal about it, but the last few days has made me believe that I would prefer one of Alan Sugars apprentices. Someone who has at least got a chance of being able to address the issues. The Pinnacle bid has made it very difficult for the Swiss bid to be considered because of the timing. And if Pinnacle fail to complete, it is difficult to see how a further 15 point deduction will not be applied.

[SB]

If MLT wasn’t involved, I’d have told Pinnacle to get ****d as soon as that Joke of an investor was reviled on SSN..

[John B]

If MLT wasn’t involved, I’d have told Pinnacle to get ****d as soon as that Joke of an investor was reviled on SSN..

 

That is probably why they got MLT involved in the first place

[Badger]

If MLT wasn’t involved, I’d have told Pinnacle to get ****d as soon as that Joke of an investor was reviled on SSN..

 

Probably the Freudian slip of the day !

 

It certainly sums up the overwhelming and inevitable response to him.

[NickG]

if they are good to their word, Fialka comes up with the things he promised in his interview they will be great for the club.

[John B]

if they are good to their word, Fialka comes up with the things he promised in his interview they will be great for the club.

 

He did not say anything that filled me with confidence.

 

It felt that his vision was it will be alright on the night.

 

I of course want him to be involved with a successful club but at the moment I have no idea what his strategy is and what his plans are with the current football staff.

 

We dont seem to know much

[eelpie]

Agreed. To my mind, Fry .......

Does anyone know if he has been involved in football takeover before?

 

Bournemouth most recent I believe I read somewhere. So he is used to hopeless causes.

[NickG]

He did not say anything that filled me with confidence.

 

It felt that his vision was it will be alright on the night.

 

I of course want him to be involved with a successful club but at the moment I have no idea what his strategy is and what his plans are with the current football staff.

 

We dont seem to know much

 

He has said;

 

MLT in charge of football decisions

MLT will be appointing a new manager

There will be money to spend

 

I have faith in MLT's choice of manager.

 

We have not had money put into the club for players during Crouch, Wilde or Lowes' reigns.

 

Long term view is return to top flight.

 

No-one is going to comment on players until in, and new manager is in.

 

Not sure what more you expect at this stage?

[Thedelldays]

He has said;

 

MLT in charge of football decisions

MLT will be appointing a new manager

There will be money to spend

 

I have faith in MLT's choice of manager.

 

We have not had money put into the club for players during Crouch, Wilde or Lowes' reigns.

 

Long term view is return to top flight.

 

No-one is going to comment on players until in, and new manager is in.

 

Not sure what more you expect at this stage?

 

whether it was believable..?

[NickG]

it is believable, as its convinced Fry and he has backed it up saying he has seen the evidence.

 

Whether any of us choose to believe is personal choice.

 

I have my doubts, but am more than happy to see what they can do for us.

[Thedelldays]

it is believable, as its convinced Fry and he has backed it up saying he has seen the evidence.

 

Whether any of us choose to believe is personal choice.

 

I have my doubts, but am more than happy to see what they can do for us.

im sure the deal to get the club is....the rest if it...money to spend, players in, return to the prem etc etc etc

 

well. hopefully we will all see and the appointment of the manager will be the first indication

[John B]

He has said;

 

 

 

We have not had money put into the club for players during Crouch, Wilde or Lowes' reigns.

 

QUOTE]

 

Yes I know that - that is why we are in administration

 

 

But we have bought and sold players.

 

 

Are we going to sell what we have at the moment are we getting in old pros young pros or is that to be decided when we find an out of work manager

[krissyboy31]

Bournemouth most recent I believe I read somewhere. So he is used to hopeless causes.

 

Begbies Traynor were the Bournemouth Administrators but Fry wasn't involved, it was Gerald Krasner and Julie Palmer.

[mcjwills]

What I want to know IF MF, TL and Pinacle come up with the goods, are all those people on here that have been absolutely VILE in thier remarks all going to make forthright apollogies to the individuals involved, It just seems to me the everbody on here knows (or blinking thinks they do) more than Mark Fry about the finances of the Pinacle group, I for one am prepared to wait until they have pulled out before I start giving out unwarranted abuse.

 

Are the same individuals also going to boycott the club if Pinacle takeover, because the vitriolic remarks are coming close to the remarks that were only given to the one who shall stay nameless. I was taught one thing as a youngster, never bite the hand that feeds you as you wont get fed in the future, It would serve those fans right if they did pull out and subsequently did prove they had the funding we would like, and the reasons were due to the hate posting on here.

 

RANT OVER