notnowcato Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I never thought they were not serious, as i have said to get into this position you spend a lot of money. That is why I cant understand people mocking MJ's backers, they woud also have spent a lot of money. Pinnacle is still the group I want to suceed See... you're at it again I never said that you never thought that they were serious and then twist it into how MJ, after all, is a good guy..... I never said he wasn't. My half full glass owns your half empty one :drinkers:
Saints foreva Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I'm just gob-smacked by the attitudes of some of the people on here. A few weeks ago it looked like we weren't going to have a club to support next year. Now thanks to this guy and his team we are not only within a whisker of not only keeping our club, but also having MLT at the helm, potentially a really exciting manager the likes of which we wouldn't have dreamed of until recently, and a united fan base for the first time in a decade. Not only that, but he/they take the time out to write articulate, professional, updates to keep us all updated. And some people have a pop at him?? If I was him reading some of these responses I'd be seriously questioning whether it was all worth the f*cking bother. Wind your necks in will you, you're acting like spoilt children. Let him finish the job. Tony and team, I for one think you're conducting yourselves in a fantastic fashion, can't wait for you to resolve the last few bits and bobs with the FL to complete the deal, and will be eternally grateful for you saving the club I love. Great post.
thefunkygibbons Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Sounds like the final haggle and when the dust settles we will have a firm foundation to build on
spain saint Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I never thought they were not serious, as i have said to get into this position you spend a lot of money. That is why I cant understand people mocking MJ's backers, they woud also have spent a lot of money. Pinnacle is still the group I want to suceed Imho I dont think MJ's costs would be anything like that figure! For a start they haven't paid over half a million for exclusivity! During said period the lawyers fees would be astronomical, therefore i suspect MJ's cost could be worked out on the back of a fag packet!
OldNick Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 See... you're at it again I never said that you never thought that they were serious and then twist it into how MJ, after all, is a good guy..... I never said he wasn't. My half full glass owns your half empty one :drinkers: Im half empty and half full it depends what time of day we are and what posts I have just read. I so want to have a half full attitude.
saint_stevo Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 But Steve, it's the wrong round IMO. We don't deserve someone like TL if we act like we do. Granted, there are worse things in life than a few cyberbullies getting their knickers in a twist but it shouldn't detract from the fact that people are acting like right w a nk ers. Don't deserve what? Surely fans of a club who have been put through enough heartache and turmoil as we have in the last 5 or so years have a right to be a bit sceptical, especially when it drags on for as long as this all has. Now, i wonder if TL gets any commision?
Fowllyd Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 There has been speculation that Pnnacle might be looking for assurances that the league would deduct no further points (in addition to the -10). Clubs coming out of administration that unable to produce a CVA will be deducted -15. We may not be able to produce a CVA for SFC as it was SLH that went and got the creditors angry. Don't know if this is what TL is talking about though. That certainly sounds very plausible. After all, TL has stated on several occasions that it's not the 10 points per se that are the issue. I'd imagine the League don't want to be tied down in any way, and would prefer to reserve the right to impose whatever further deduction they choose.
derry Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 The bit that confuses me is the apparent need for the league and Pinnacle to agree "a contract". Is this the clause to not appeal or is it something else? It seems the whole delay is because the League and Pinnacle are at loggerheads over something other than the 10 points and I am struggling to understand what that is. I thought the league only had to be satisfied in the suitability of the owners to grant license? So many questions and while I appreciate TL's message and sentiments I am never afterwards, ever any clearer as to the real nature of the problem. Duncan, this may be about a catch all clause regarding appealing or taking it out of the league's hands. For example the court of arbitration or alternatively the high court. I think the league are trying to tie up the licence so that there can be no subsequent action. Pinnacle's lawyers appear to be having a big say in this. It has to be remembered that Pinnacle is a consultancy company employed by a rich third party who probably has the final say in how far this goes. They may not be prepared to accept the league laying down the law.
notnowcato Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Im half empty and half full it depends what time of day we are and what posts I have just read. I so want to have a half full attitude. Leave the F5 key alone and step away from the forum
docker-p Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 "If any other Group(s)/Individuals claim not to be interested in the clauses contained within our contract, this would to my mind raise questions as to why they would not be prepared to stand up for what is best for the Club. Knowing what we know, factually and legally, certain aspects of the agreement need alteration, without which it is our firm belief that you would be exposing the Club to risk. And with this in mind, we are working closely with the League and we will resolve the issues as quickly as possible, thus resulting in the best position for the Club". Makes perfect sense to me. Too many on here have been crying out to except the penalty and get the deal done, but there is clearly reprocussions in doing that. Pinnacle are showing themselves to be thougher, and professional and I would rather they take another fortnight and get whats best for Saints than land ourselves in more poo by just signing our lifes away. I also think talk of alternative investors is just Fry trying to keep the pressure on to get a deal done. If he sells to another consortium at this stage Pinnacle are going to be suing his ass for their money back including legal fees.
Colinjb Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 The update is appreciated Tony, but the talk is becoming very cheap.
OldNick Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Leave the F5 key alone and step away from the forum Now that would be a popular decision by many on here
saint_stevo Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 The update is appreciated Tony, but the talk is becoming very cheap. sure is. 'nothing new to say, just thought i would say something'
gaz Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Everyone likes to have something to moan about. I can't wait for it to all play out and we can start to think about the trival stuff...like football....
Puddings and Monkeys Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I'm just gob-smacked by the attitudes of some of the people on here. A few weeks ago it looked like we weren't going to have a club to support next year. Now thanks to this guy and his team we are not only within a whisker of not only keeping our club, but also having MLT at the helm, potentially a really exciting manager the likes of which we wouldn't have dreamed of until recently, and a united fan base for the first time in a decade. Not only that, but he/they take the time out to write articulate, professional, updates to keep us all updated. And some people have a pop at him?? If I was him reading some of these responses I'd be seriously questioning whether it was all worth the f*cking bother. Wind your necks in will you, you're acting like spoilt children. Let him finish the job. Tony and team, I for one think you're conducting yourselves in a fantastic fashion, can't wait for you to resolve the last few bits and bobs with the FL to complete the deal, and will be eternally grateful for you saving the club I love. Spot on mate.
spain saint Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 "If any other Group(s)/Individuals claim not to be interested in the clauses contained within our contract, this would to my mind raise questions as to why they would not be prepared to stand up for what is best for the Club. Knowing what we know, factually and legally, certain aspects of the agreement need alteration, without which it is our firm belief that you would be exposing the Club to risk. And with this in mind, we are working closely with the League and we will resolve the issues as quickly as possible, thus resulting in the best position for the Club". Makes perfect sense to me. Too many on here have been crying out to except the penalty and get the deal done, but there is clearly reprocussions in doing that. Pinnacle are showing themselves to be thougher, and professional and I would rather they take another fortnight and get whats best for Saints than land ourselves in more poo by just signing our lifes away. I also think talk of alternative investors is just Fry trying to keep the pressure on to get a deal done. If he sells to another consortium at this stage Pinnacle are going to be suing his ass for their money back including legal fees. I thought last week that we should take the penalty and move on, but now I am big enough to say I was wrong and the more I here from these guys the more I believe that they are the proffessionals and we should let them get on with it! I also remember TL saying that we should take a step back and remove the emotional side of it! Well as far as #I can see no-one on here can do that. Keep the faith.
exit2 Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 "If any other Group(s)/Individuals claim not to be interested in the clauses contained within our contract, this would to my mind raise questions as to why they would not be prepared to stand up for what is best for the Club. Knowing what we know, factually and legally, certain aspects of the agreement need alteration, without which it is our firm belief that you would be exposing the Club to risk. And with this in mind, we are working closely with the League and we will resolve the issues as quickly as possible, thus resulting in the best position for the Club". Makes perfect sense to me. Too many on here have been crying out to except the penalty and get the deal done, but there is clearly reprocussions in doing that. Pinnacle are showing themselves to be thougher, and professional and I would rather they take another fortnight and get whats best for Saints than land ourselves in more poo by just signing our lifes away. I also think talk of alternative investors is just Fry trying to keep the pressure on to get a deal done. If he sells to another consortium at this stage Pinnacle are going to be suing his ass for their money back including legal fees. Your right there docker! I know this is our club, but we have to put ourselves in Pinnacles shoes here. There is something not quite right with the FL's "contract" and since Pinnacle have spent over £1m so far with possibly another £500k tomorrow, Im sure they dont want to be "stitched up" at a later date
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 There has been speculation that Pnnacle might be looking for assurances that the league would deduct no further points (in addition to the -10). Clubs coming out of administration that unable to produce a CVA will be deducted -15. We may not be able to produce a CVA for SFC as it was SLH that went and got the creditors angry. Don't know if this is what TL is talking about though. Thanks for that. Seems very catch 22 to me.
ottery st mary Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I'm just gob-smacked by the attitudes of some of the people on here. A few weeks ago it looked like we weren't going to have a club to support next year. Now thanks to this guy and his team we are not only within a whisker of not only keeping our club, but also having MLT at the helm, potentially a really exciting manager the likes of which we wouldn't have dreamed of until recently, and a united fan base for the first time in a decade. Not only that, but he/they take the time out to write articulate, professional, updates to keep us all updated. And some people have a pop at him?? If I was him reading some of these responses I'd be seriously questioning whether it was all worth the f*cking bother. Wind your necks in will you, you're acting like spoilt children. Let him finish the job. Tony and team, I for one think you're conducting yourselves in a fantastic fashion, can't wait for you to resolve the last few bits and bobs with the FL to complete the deal, and will be eternally grateful for you saving the club I love. This is very true and I am sure they will not be too worried by a few on here.;-). We are there...almost.....No one else is waiting to buy us...Not with more than a £10 note anyway.:smt117
beatlesaint Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 "nothing that has happened since these new conditions were placed upon has in any way put us off, if anything it has strengthened our resolve to do the best for the Club." Surprised nobody has picked up on this part of Tony's note. Do we take it that this means that Pinnacle will STILL buy the club come what may BUT if they can make things better, or on a more level playing field as MLT put it, by this ongoing dialogue before signing the contract, then thats what they will do ? If that is correct, and I have read it right, then that must indicate that at some point there will be a cut off and Pinnacle will say "ok, we accept that" then complete the takeover. Perhaps with salaries to be paid tomorrow that cut off point will be within the next 24 hours ???
miserableoldgit Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I'm just gob-smacked by the attitudes of some of the people on here. A few weeks ago it looked like we weren't going to have a club to support next year. Now thanks to this guy and his team we are not only within a whisker of not only keeping our club, but also having MLT at the helm, potentially a really exciting manager the likes of which we wouldn't have dreamed of until recently, and a united fan base for the first time in a decade. Not only that, but he/they take the time out to write articulate, professional, updates to keep us all updated. And some people have a pop at him?? If I was him reading some of these responses I'd be seriously questioning whether it was all worth the f*cking bother. Wind your necks in will you, you're acting like spoilt children. Let him finish the job. Tony and team, I for one think you're conducting yourselves in a fantastic fashion, can't wait for you to resolve the last few bits and bobs with the FL to complete the deal, and will be eternally grateful for you saving the club I love. Spot On!
exit2 Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 what I said previously abut the cva Im lead to believe that the below scenario is the case the lawyers have against the FL about us not having the ten points deduction. OK lets say we accept the 10 point deduction and sign the non appeal clause. In four months time the FL then say can we see Southampton Football Club Limited's CVA to prove to us that you have serviced your creditors demands. The problem here is that Southampton Football club limited are unable to produce a CVA because in fact we were not in administration it was SLH. SLH are not a member of the football league so legally they can not ask for it. Does that make sense? and to me Im behind pinnacle 100% is this is the case
Evo Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I vaguely remember having a semi-drunk discussion with a law person chap a couple of years ago and he was trying to convince me that if you sign a contract with an illegal clause in it, you become complicit to the wrongdoing - in other words if you sign a contract that has a term that later turns out to be illegal then you are as liable as the guy that laid out the contract in the first place. Does that ring any bells with anyone on here?
Saint_Ash Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 i'm just gob-smacked by the attitudes of some of the people on here. A few weeks ago it looked like we weren't going to have a club to support next year. Now thanks to this guy and his team we are not only within a whisker of not only keeping our club, but also having mlt at the helm, potentially a really exciting manager the likes of which we wouldn't have dreamed of until recently, and a united fan base for the first time in a decade. Not only that, but he/they take the time out to write articulate, professional, updates to keep us all updated. And some people have a pop at him?? If i was him reading some of these responses i'd be seriously questioning whether it was all worth the f*cking bother. Wind your necks in will you, you're acting like spoilt children. Let him finish the job. Tony and team, i for one think you're conducting yourselves in a fantastic fashion, can't wait for you to resolve the last few bits and bobs with the fl to complete the deal, and will be eternally grateful for you saving the club i love. +10000000000
Frank's cousin Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I dont think folk are having a pop at Tiny who we know is working his nuts off.... the thing is that having had fingers burned on numerous occasions in the past its easy to get a bit suspicious - especially as: 1) the -10 points should not be a deal breaker - we deserved the punishment whether legal loophole or not because of excessive spending a few years back, so why not accept it and sign on the line? The fact they have not suggests its a bigger issue for someone - most likely with the final say... Mr X... and, 2) the secreacy relating to the backer/s - Everone can understand the desire to maintain confidentiality and out of teh media spotlightuntil the deal is complete, but it will open teh door for speculation and concern that they actually exist! - 3) we are desperate for it to succeed so as to avoid being dependant on MJ ;-)
johnsey Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 and to me Im behind pinnacle 100% is this is the case I am too if this is the case, however surely there is an easier way around this.
Wade Garrett Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I share the frustration of some. But it is unrealistic to expect TL to put his full hand out in public. In negotiating a deal of this size, many things have to be traded-off (and I just don't mean financially) and that is, quite simply, where Pinnacle are. I like the sound of them and trust they get all things ironed out asap. I agree 100%. Hopefully they will sort out their differences with the League today. It does strike me that they are on the level, particularly if their £1million+ costs to date are true. Just got to hang in there and keep hoping.
saintalan Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 what I said previously abut the cva Originally Posted by exit2 View Post Im lead to believe that the below scenario is the case the lawyers have against the FL about us not having the ten points deduction. OK lets say we accept the 10 point deduction and sign the non appeal clause. In four months time the FL then say can we see Southampton Football Club Limited's CVA to prove to us that you have serviced your creditors demands. The problem here is that Southampton Football club limited are unable to produce a CVA because in fact we were not in administration it was SLH. SLH are not a member of the football league so legally they can not ask for it. Does that make sense? and to me Im behind pinnacle 100% is this is the case I think the problem may be that they would be willing to accept the No Appeal clause for the 10 points, except that the same clause may cover any further (15) points deduction. In your scenario above, they would definitely want to appeal any future deduction for the reasons you state.
SaintRichmond Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I just want to f**king know how long "shortly" is ffs. I am 5ft 9"
Frank's cousin Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I think the problem may be that they would be willing to accept the No Appeal clause for the 10 points, except that the same clause may cover any further (15) points deduction. In your scenario above, they would definitely want to appeal any future deduction for the reasons you state. Sorry but again I would say this simply cant happen - because we will not be granted a lisense without having a CVA in place via SLH - which has to count as its teh reason why we got -10 in teh first place ...being 'inextricably' linked...
derry Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 The fact that Tony Lynham has posted on here shows a level of respect for the average fan. Tying up a deal of this nature was never going to be easy. It seems obvious that the behind closed doors Swiss group won't be talking to anybody even if they buy the club. I don't find the MJ bid credible. They have taken the cheap option all the way through. Although being the first bid in failed to produce the deposit as the investor walked, saw the books without the exclusivity, ditched the original finance and took on new middle eastern based backers after the exclusivity deal started. They now say they would take the easy option with the league and would pay the wages on Thursday, whilst it is obvious the bid is on the never never, payments geared to subsequent promotions. For me The Pinnacle bid is the way to go provided it does what it says. The Swiss whilst being probably more substantial would I think have no empathy but see it as a profit in due course.
lenwilkins Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Duncan, this may be about a catch all clause regarding appealing or taking it out of the league's hands. For example the court of arbitration or alternatively the high court. I think the league are trying to tie up the licence so that there can be no subsequent action. Pinnacle's lawyers appear to be having a big say in this. It has to be remembered that Pinnacle is a consultancy company employed by a rich third party who probably has the final say in how far this goes. They may not be prepared to accept the league laying down the law. I wouldn't be too surprised if they are also looking at an alternative club at the same time. After all Marcus Evans looked at us and Ipswich; SISU looked at us and Coventry. I can see this one going the same way. This would explain the investor's reticence to reveal his name. Pinnacle may not even know if he does have another club up his sleeve as they are only the vehicle to possibly acquire Saints.
SaintRichmond Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I vaguely remember having a semi-drunk discussion with a law person chap a couple of years ago and he was trying to convince me that if you sign a contract with an illegal clause in it, you become complicit to the wrongdoing - in other words if you sign a contract that has a term that later turns out to be illegal then you are as liable as the guy that laid out the contract in the first place. Does that ring any bells with anyone on here? Makes sense ... If you read something and don't like it, but still sign, then that's your fault .... you are deemd to be complicit ....... I don't know the Legal position if you sign something "under duress" ..... mind you, the League would not let anyone do that, as it immediately highlights what could be, and most likely is, a "Flaw" in their "System"
chrisobee Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I'm just gob-smacked by the attitudes of some of the people on here. A few weeks ago it looked like we weren't going to have a club to support next year. Now thanks to this guy and his team we are not only within a whisker of not only keeping our club, but also having MLT at the helm, potentially a really exciting manager the likes of which we wouldn't have dreamed of until recently, and a united fan base for the first time in a decade. Not only that, but he/they take the time out to write articulate, professional, updates to keep us all updated. And some people have a pop at him?? If I was him reading some of these responses I'd be seriously questioning whether it was all worth the f*cking bother. Wind your necks in will you, you're acting like spoilt children. Let him finish the job. Tony and team, I for one think you're conducting yourselves in a fantastic fashion, can't wait for you to resolve the last few bits and bobs with the FL to complete the deal, and will be eternally grateful for you saving the club I love. Ditto, 100% agree, just relax and enjoy the weather
Wade Garrett Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Makes me laugh that people have been bombarding Lynham with emails and texts. His post is a nice way of saying 'leave me alone you sad b*stards and get on with your lives'. Muppets.
mcjwills Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Your right there docker! I know this is our club, but we have to put ourselves in Pinnacles shoes here. There is something not quite right with the FL's "contract" and since Pinnacle have spent over £1m so far with possibly another £500k tomorrow, Im sure they dont want to be "stitched up" at a later date If I remember, TL stated a few days ago that he had spent in excess of £500K because they had put up the money for the playing of the Ted Bates trophy against AJAX. This may be what has put the cost up to 7 figures.
ART Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I would lay odds that the something not quite right is, a conflict of interest in the money or people behind the deal. He earlier stated that it is imperative that they have the right people and I believe this is the problem with the League and not the minus ten points. As pointed out, the minus ten points is a red herring.
exit2 Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 If I remember, TL stated a few days ago that he had spent in excess of £500K because they had put up the money for the playing of the Ted Bates trophy against AJAX. This may be what has put the cost up to 7 figures. I agree but irrespective of what they have spent the money on surely indicates their intent. Especially if the wages get paid tomorrow
Navysaint Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Tony Any chance in some of your spare time during the day of letting us know a rough price for season tickets?? For when you are sucessful :confused:
Sheff Saint Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I still wonder whether 'we' could/should put the Football Club subsidiary company into administration as a means-to-an-end to get over this catch-22 scenario? What would be the harm in doing so? Have we missed the deadline required to have a CVA for already?
Gingeletiss Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Duncan that is the problem, every day the statements are basically the same and pandering to our egos that we are important. It has been well debated by a few that the -10 may well be -25 they are trying to stop happening or worse I feel very concerned for old friends who must be very worried who work at the club.The players they can drift off and earn a good wage. The poor souls in the offices have to try and find a job in this market if it all goes t### up. Trouble is nick, you and many others on here, have exactly that, egos, you really do think that your opinions count, and that you should have a big say in things. As I have said previously, this forum is a small part of the fan base, but many feel that they should have the biggest say. The man has taken time out, to yet again, let us know what's going on, but that's not good enough for some, because he's not saying what they want to here, then he's a tyre kicker (by the way Tony, it was an insult). Get real, give them some breathing space.
surrey1saint Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Thanks Tony for all the regular updates.They keep me sane! Also top man for all your hard work....it HAS to pay off! You have the respect of 99% of us on here I would say.
John D Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 I would lay odds that the something not quite right is, a conflict of interest in the money or people behind the deal. He earlier stated that it is imperative that they have the right people and I believe this is the problem with the League and not the minus ten points. As pointed out, the minus ten points is a red herring. so the money man is already involved in another club??? Who was the Birmingham City chap rumoured to be interested??
hackedoff Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Would really prefere this lot to take over,but fear that very,very soon it will be out of their hands .
The9 Posted 24 June, 2009 Posted 24 June, 2009 Sounds to me like the sticking point continues to be getting it in writing that we're not going to get nailed for another 15 points if we accept the initial position. i.e. we accept the -10 with no appeal, but the FL agree not to punish us for not having a CVA, given that SLH won't exist any more. The alternative being that we don't accept the -10 and they won't let Pinnacle take over, dropping us right in it with a limited timescale, even if someone else is rushing to replace them who will agree to it, because they'd be tacicly accepting that we're in admin and requiring a CVA which we can't provide, hence further deductions. That's assuming that everything else is on the level and they still have the funding of course.
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