Saintmike666 Posted 30 August, 2008 Author Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Yes, we know. You've made your point Mr Uber-fan. Well good. Mr Uber-fan, I like that, wish id thought of that as a screen name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I have no idea (I assume that you have compared that game because it was the forth fixture into last season? I don’t remember!) I'm sorry, but that is a really weird comment, IMO. If you remember anything from last season, it was the absolute and complete shambles that was our first home game. We were murdered, run off the pitch, out paced, out thought, out played. Discussions on here went on about it for weeks and weeks and Bennet, well, he was lucky to wear the shirt ever again, even though he did remarkably well then, that first game was the nightmare to end all nightmares. Surely it is etched into the brain of any Saints supporter? Not having a go, but just find it strange that you don't remember it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmike666 Posted 30 August, 2008 Author Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I'm sorry, but that is a really weird comment, IMO. If you remember anything from last season, it was the absolute and complete shambles that was our first home game. We were murdered, run off the pitch, out paced, out thought, out played. Discussions on here went on about it for weeks and weeks and Bennet, well, he was lucky to wear the shirt ever again, even though he did remarkably well then, that first game was the nightmare to end all nightmares. Surely it is etched into the brain of any Saints supporter? Not having a go, but just find it strange that you don't remember it. It all came flooding back after I was reminded. Maybe I had managed to put it to the back of my mind due to some sort of distress induced memory loss or something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Having read all about our great new set up over the past weeks I watched this game with much excitement, well for the first half anyway I was well impressed, especially with the atmosphere with all the chanting and positivity. We concede the penalty goal and thats it. No more singing, moany childish whinging spreading through the ground. Boo hoo. I hope no one has written "we have the best fans in the country" cos if things go on like that we will never get into the top half this season, or any other season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Maybe I had managed to put it to the back of my mind due to some sort of distress induced memory loss or something! Oh, if only it were that simple :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I was at the game. At the end there was lots of booing that IMO was aimed mainly at the team / performance not the ref. In addition the atmosphere in the last 20 mins consisted of negative shyte at every mistake or misplace pass. Personally I applauded the team off the pitch as I recognised the effort that the team put in despite the result. They got bossed by a physical and more experienced team. Personally I would have brought on Wotton at half time and not dyer and therefore consider it a mistake by JP. Some of the fans in my opinion are a fu.cking disgrace, these are 19/20 year old kids that are learning the game. yes they have talent but they will make mstakes. I see no benefit in sapping thier confidence by booing at the end and jeering / shouting negative shyte when a pass goes astray etc. Bollock to the people that say "I have paid my money I do what I like" and I say "Fu.ck you all and take your negative shte elsewhere." Like I say your a disgrace and should hang you heads in shame. In your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I was sat next to an whinging gimp all game. He whinged from kick-off through to full time. He was an idiot. He then booed at the end. It was what I imagine having to watch football next alpine would be like. The people that booed are idiots/morons end of. They were completely out of order to do so. That is fact, not opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 (edited) I was sat next to an whinging gimp all game. He whinged from kick-off through to full time. He was an idiot. He then booed at the end. It was what I imagine having to watch football next alpine would be like. The people that booed are idiots/morons end of. They were completely out of order to do so. That is fact, not opinion. Wow. I thought bungle was going to get through a post without insulting me for a minute... Btw, its still opinion, bungle. Edited 30 August, 2008 by alpine_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Reigned Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I noticed some booing today but most of it was aimed at the ref from what I could tell. I don't agree with anyone who did boo the team today, but at least I respect them more than people who come on here and criticise others, whilst not being arsed to go themselves. 15,600 FFS; we used to get more than that at The Dell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbrennan Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I have been to all four league games this season and judging from so far I would say the lads fear playing at home. At both away games there has been a feel good factor. It seemed at Cardiff and Derby that most the fans there appreciated that this is a young side full of players who have only a handful of league appearences to their name. Away from home every pass/movement/attempt at goal was applauded by the fans to show that we were happy with the effort. Now with this being the case they are much more likely to attempt the 'sexier' kind of football - as it comes with a higher risk of losing possesion they will need some confidence behind them - this undoubtebly is where the crowd comes in - if every effort the players put in is applauded then they will play the smart football they will take risks and they are more than likely to come off. However if every pass/attempt on goal is hissed at around the ground then these young guys simply won't want to try the gamebreaking pass or shot. They are young inexperienced and a few people at today's game need to accept this. Look at it like this - you've got yourself a promotion at work and every time you make a slight error you have 15,000 groaning at you for it? Your new to the job and need time to settle in mistakes will happen - but would it be easier to forget the mistakes if the boss said "Nice effort!" or " you bloody idiot what the hell do you think your doing!" I know it was not a good result and we expected a positive display but the fact is most of these guys have not even played 5 competitive games at this level - give them a break. Show your support - don't boo, don't groan, just get behind them and raise the noise levels because when the ground is rocking with enthusiasm that is when these guys will shine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Anyone who sat in Lowe's stadium and booed is no fan in my eyes. Disgusting. Since when has it been Lowes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Michael Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Everyone is, of course, entitled to voice their opinions but what the plebian boo boys totally fail to understand is the context. It wasn't a great game obviously, but the one thing you will never get from young players, however talented, is consistency. Cretinous chavs need to understand that. It's hardly surprising when two good performances last week are followed by a knackered, flat display just a few days later. We've got a fledgling team just getting to know each other and their manager, the style of football is by and large encouraging and the philosophy seems right. We receive a setback and what is some people's response? "BOOOO!". Get a grip, folks. Rupes and JP have put their faith in youth and it's a laudable philosophy (if a little transparent - young players are cheap after all), but, apart from Manchester Utd in 95/96 Alan Hansen was right - you don't win anything with kids. Give it time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 It seemed to me that the team that outplayed Derby and totally run rings around Brimingham were not the same team we saw today. I dont know if we had too much confidence or we thought Blackpool would roll over.But despite the bad ref and despite all of Blackpools disallowed goals,we lost. Lets come back stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmary Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Everyone is, of course, entitled to voice their opinions but what the plebian boo boys totally fail to understand is the context. It wasn't a great game obviously, but the one thing you will never get from young players, however talented, is consistency. Cretinous chavs need to understand that. It's hardly surprising when two good performances last week are followed by a knackered, flat display just a few days later. We've got a fledgling team just getting to know each other and their manager, the style of football is by and large encouraging and the philosophy seems right. We receive a setback and what is some people's response? "BOOOO!". Get a grip, folks. Rupes and JP have put their faith in youth and it's a laudable philosophy (if a little transparent - young players are cheap after all), but, apart from Manchester Utd in 95/96 Alan Hansen was right - you don't win anything with kids. Give it time.& Wilde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 15,600 FFS; we used to get more than that at The Dell. Sky, early kick-off, tiny away support, no cheaper tickets, lost 2 of our first 3 league games. Give people a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 & Wilde. In your opinion. I believe I said IMO at least twice in my post you muppet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole1 Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 15,600 FFS; we used to get more than that at The Dell. 15,600 reasons to get Lowe Out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole1 Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I was sat next to an whinging gimp all game. He whinged from kick-off through to full time. He was an idiot. He then booed at the end. It was what I imagine having to watch football next alpine would be like. The people that booed are idiots/morons end of. They were completely out of order to do so. That is fact, not opinion. Did you repeat your comments to his face, or did you save it to post on tsw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmary Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I believe I said IMO at least twice in my post you muppetWhat?:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I was sat next to an whinging gimp all game. He whinged from kick-off through to full time. He was an idiot. He then booed at the end. It was what I imagine having to watch football next alpine would be like. The people that booed are idiots/morons end of. They were completely out of order to do so. That is fact, not opinion.thats why the club has been in freefull ,pompey fans seem to back their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Saint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 thats why the club has been in freefull ,pompey fans seem to back their team. Are you on a wind up?? Skates can't even fill their tin pot shed that they call a ground. Good try solentskate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 (edited) Are you on a wind up?? Skates can't even fill their tin pot shed that they call a ground. Good try solentskateis this reply supposed to be written by a someone with a brain."solent skate)bit thick are you what a prat you are.:roll:6 Edited 30 August, 2008 by solentstars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 They paid their money and were treated to about 25minutes of 'football' from us today. They have every right to show their feelings after today's performance. I'm pretty sure most of them were there on tuesday too, and were clapping and cheering at the end, but no mention of that eh? So we are not only a bunch of short term ingrates who embarrass the team on National Television, we are also fickle. Well that makes all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 thats why the club has been in freefull ,pompey fans seem to back their team. so much so that their manager complained about their poor support and booing the team in their last home game before a cup final! I thought most applauded the young players off and wasn't aware of any booing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 so much so that their manager complained about their poor support and booing the team in their last home game before a cup final! I thought most applauded the young players off and wasn't aware of any booing i think we have have a really great young team coming threw and would love us to support them .today was a offday and learning curve for them.i have supported the team since 1968 and we had a great spirit at the dell.but since we moved to st marys ,we seem to have alot of negative supporters who love putting this great club down.every chance they get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Saint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 is this reply supposed to be written by a someone with a brain."solent skate)bit thick are you what a prat you are.:roll:6 Think before you post junior. Don't bang on about skates and their loyal support because you clearly don't have a clue... you er.. prat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 agree about too much negativity at times but not the praising portsmouth support, they had that game when they built that reputation singing while, I think it was Arsensal, stuffed them -but they were poor last year as their expectations have risen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 so much so that their manager complained about their poor support and booing the team in their last home game before a cup final! I thought most applauded the young players off and wasn't aware of any booing I agree with you Nick. I am in the Northam,block 42 and i didnt hear any booing.In fact most people around me were clapping the team off the pitch,with a lot of applause going towards Kelvin Davies for his outstanding performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Think before you post junior. Don't bang on about skates and their loyal support because you clearly don't have a clue... you er.. pratha ha you are so funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 So we are not only a bunch of short term ingrates who embarrass the team on National Television, we are also fickle. Well that makes all the difference. Hmmmmmmmmmm My post was in answer to us being 'supporters' wasn't it? The term 'sing when you're winning' is quite apt isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Saint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 ha ha you are so funny. Funny? funny is hearing you thinking p*mpey have great support. Not that you'd notice & going back to the original topic I thought our support was very good first half. Lot of frustration second half but didn't hear much booing from where I was in the Northam. Good support all things considered. If you're not happy get yourself a bell, and fook off to fartton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 agree about too much negativity at times but not the praising portsmouth support, they had that game when they built that reputation singing while, I think it was Arsensal, stuffed them -but they were poor last year as their expectations have riseni agree with you ,when pompey move to a new ground they will attract alot of plastic fans and lose the fratton park atomsphere. to me you could not beat the dell in full cry for support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint boggy Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I don't see anywhere on the ticket that you can't boo, feel free to prove otherwise. Anyone who has paid their money to go to the stadium are allowed to do anything they f*cking well want as long it is within the law and ground regulations. I didn't boo at the end, but maybe that's because I was in my car and on my way home before the final whistle went. Some of you on here need to have a realiity check, people can do whatever they please at football, and you lot need to stop acting like god and trying to tell people how they should support SFC so you telling people how you think they should dress at a football match isn't ,in some small way, YOU trying to act like God?? i don't believe it says anywhere on a match ticket that you can't wear replica shirts or Saints emblazoned clothing either, however YOU choose to ridicule and deride them for doing so... if you're gonna preach your morals Stuey, you should also practice them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 I agree with you Nick. I am in the Northam,block 42 and i didnt hear any booing.In fact most people around me were clapping the team off the pitch,with a lot of applause going towards Kelvin Davies for his outstanding performance. I was in the Northam, block 41 and heard very little booing at the end and it was only a token short thing what I did hear. In the second half there was some exasperation from some, as I suspect that they felt that some of the team had lost their way a bit. There was a lot of hostility towards the referee, who seemed to be a right little nitpicker and also towards Blackpool's players, who despite being big lumps, would crumple into a heap if any of our youngsters got within an inch of them. Take their goallie for example; went for a 50/50 ball, our player was uninjured, but the goallie looked as if he might have suffered a broken back, so still he lay. It turns out he wasn't hurt at all but had gone down because he was so far out of his area. He got up and didn't even have the decency to hobble a bit. Another of their players, the same thing. All of these things made it a frustrating afternoon, especially when they had won it by a penalty. In the second half, we seeme to have abandoned our total football and reverted to type, which didn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Funny? funny is hearing you thinking p*mpey have great support. Not that you'd notice & going back to the original topic I thought our support was very good first half. Lot of frustration second half but didn't hear much booing from where I was in the Northam. Good support all things considered. If you're not happy get yourself a bell, and fook off to fartton learn to read my post .great support where did you get that from.i posted that they seem to back their team ,twisting words are we. on about bells now. yes we were good in the first half and the northam is good at backing our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Saint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 learn to read my post .great support where did you get that from.i posted that they seem to back their team ,twisting words are we. on about bells now. yes we were good in the first half and the northam is good at backing our team. Not twisting words at all. All we need after a **** poor display today is you going on about how skates back their team (clueless). Tops off a cracking day! Doubt I'll see you at QPR but all the best anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Not twisting words at all. All we need after a **** poor display today is you going on about how skates back their team (clueless). Tops off a cracking day! Doubt I'll see you at QPR but all the best anywaygood luck at qpr ,i can see that you have alot of passion for the saints, i use to follow the the saints away in the mid70,s and 80,s 90,s and had some great times.:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Saint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 good luck at qpr ,i can see that you have alot of passion for the saints, i use to follow the the saints away in the mid70,s and 80,s 90,s and had some great times.:cool: Top man. Apologies, not been the best of days! Up The Saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 never heard any booing of the players, other than that direct at Hammill and the rest of the Blackpool side, not forgetting the Ref. Think it is being overstated to cover up the poor performance both on and off the pitch by our management team, they were out thought and out fought Agreed on the first part, I didn't hear booing directed at our players, just the expected groans when someone didn't do as well as the crowd hoped. Sad though, that some committed fans on here seem to imply that booing the team would be OK. When things go wrong on the pitch the crowd will react, but it should be a principle for the fans to get behind the team collectively and encourage them. Today was definitely a poor performance on the pitch, but can't see how that equates to the management team being out-thought. Blackpool deserved the win for being more threatening up front, although I didn't think they deserved the penalty. Saints had a lot of the game, played much of it in the visitors half and there was some good football, but there were weaknesses (Killer / White) that let the team down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Didn't hear any booing at the players myself, only at the ref and the opposition timewasters. There were some shouts of frustration aimed at the players, but that was at least partly down to Blackpools efforts to frustrate us succeeding, with time running out and it looking increasingly like we were going to lose to an undeserved penalty (as it seemed to most people in the stadium at the time, especially as practically the entire Blackpool front line encroached and on first look without a replay didn't seem like it should have been a pen in the first place) The booing at the end was the release of all that frustration and as far as I could tell not aimed at the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Top man. Apologies, not been the best of days! Up The Saints i know how you feel,it used to cut me up when the saints lost ,but i suppose has i get older i have began to mellow. but i think we have the making of a terrific young team who will take us back to the premiership where we belong . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englesaint Posted 30 August, 2008 Share Posted 30 August, 2008 Agreed on the first part, I didn't hear booing directed at our players, just the expected groans when someone didn't do as well as the crowd hoped. Sad though, that some committed fans on here seem to imply that booing the team would be OK. When things go wrong on the pitch the crowd will react, but it should be a principle for the fans to get behind the team collectively and encourage them. Today was definitely a poor performance on the pitch, but can't see how that equates to the management team being out-thought. Blackpool deserved the win for being more threatening up front, although I didn't think they deserved the penalty. Saints had a lot of the game, played much of it in the visitors half and there was some good football, but there were weaknesses (Killer / White) that let the team down. As much as I like Jan (and I do !) , I think we were a bit out-thought. They went long and counter attack to negate our midfield. They slowed the game up whenever possible once ahead. They pushed on to our frail central defence and we made no change. They got behind our full backs (who are not fullbacks . . .yet) In what way did they not deserve the penalty? Watch the footage - horrible -easy decision to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Rabbit Posted 31 August, 2008 Share Posted 31 August, 2008 Let's stop referring to them as 'kids'. None of them are under the age of 18. Some over 20 and 3 in their 30's. They are all adults and are paid to play football. It's not like you are going to watch the f*cking youth team in a meaningless match because you have nothing better to do. Kids would respond badly to criticism...probably because they are children and don't have the emotional capacity to handle it..these people are paid to play football...it's a hard life. We've lost 3 out of 4 in the league. That is not good. Playing well and not winning is 100% worse than playing **** and getting 3 points on the board. Today we did neither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 31 August, 2008 Share Posted 31 August, 2008 Let's stop referring to them as 'kids'. None of them are under the age of 18. Some over 20 and 3 in their 30's. They are all adults and are paid to play football. It's not like you are going to watch the f*cking youth team in a meaningless match because you have nothing better to do. Kids would respond badly to criticism...probably because they are children and don't have the emotional capacity to handle it..these people are paid to play football...it's a hard life. We've lost 3 out of 4 in the league. That is not good. Playing well and not winning is 100% worse than playing **** and getting 3 points on the board. Today we did neither To a certain extent I would agree with you. However many are still young 'tradesmen' and unlike you or I, when they ply their trade they do so under intense public scrutiny, both from those actually at the venue and from millions of others watching on television. Therefore when they make mistakes they are very public mistakes - you or I rarely (if ever) have to deal with that in our workplace. Yes playing professional football is a very privileged position to hold - however lets not kid ourself that just because they are well paid, it gives them the 'emotional capacity' to handle it when 15000 people get on their backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFM Posted 31 August, 2008 Share Posted 31 August, 2008 thats why the club has been in freefull ,pompey fans seem to back their team. For your info Pxmpey fans are having their own mini-crisis about the atmosphere at FP. They don't think it is all that since they got promoted, they think they only have the same tired old songs (christ they are right about that - the Pxmey chimes and still singing the great escape?), not much singing in general, the Farton End quiet, John Westwood stomping out at half time against because they stopped him ringing his bell etc. I think they finished in the top 8 in The Prem last season? So please don't make them out to be great fans in comparison to ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFM Posted 31 August, 2008 Share Posted 31 August, 2008 For your info Pxmpey fans are having their own mini-crisis about the atmosphere at FP. They don't think it is all that since they got promoted, they think they only have the same tired old songs (christ they are right about that - the Pxmey chimes and still singing the great escape?), not much singing in general, the Farton End quiet, John Westwood stomping out at half time against because they stopped him ringing his bell etc. I think they finished in the top 8 in The Prem last season? So please don't make them out to be great fans in comparison to ours. Oh sorry, I forgot they also won the cup for the first time in 70 years or something too (but allegedly didn't sell all their tickets for the final anyway) yet struggle to fill their shed with a team that we would die for. We can argue amongst ourselves, and tbh I thought most of the booing was aimed at Blackpool players' antics and the ref, but personally I find it more offensive to be told by an alleged Saints fan how great "they" are. They are a bunch of ****s IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareham saint phil Posted 31 August, 2008 Share Posted 31 August, 2008 Never booed my team off never will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 31 August, 2008 Share Posted 31 August, 2008 They can keep their money if they only want to barrack and cause dissent. On another thread you've previously said that it was "Lowe's army" who had returned to SMS. So therefore it must be them booing. Not very loyal to Lowe are they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 31 August, 2008 Share Posted 31 August, 2008 I noticed some booing today but most of it was aimed at the ref from what I could tell. I don't agree with anyone who did boo the team today, but at least I respect them more than people who come on here and criticise others, whilst not being arsed to go themselves. 15,600 FFS; we used to get more than that at The Dell. Lowe's revolution has got them flooding back. :smt082 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junction 9 Posted 31 August, 2008 Share Posted 31 August, 2008 Also, do we really need to be chanting "W*nker" to an injured ex-player of ours as he leaves the pitch? Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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