Isnt it time the FA grew a pair of brass ones and took back control of the game ?

[alpine_saint]

Looking at how we've been jerked around by the FL, and the way Sentanta's desperate efforts to avoid going under were torpedoed by the PL when everyone else was willing to support and wait for a takeover and re-negotiation, isnt it time the ultimate authority for football in this country DO SOMETHING to protect the integrity and future of the sport here ??

[Thedelldays]

we have not been jacked around

 

we were/are an appallingly run football club and have paid the price

the board, the players and YES us the fans are all to blame in some way

[FMPR]

Didnt hear alot of your fans complaining when you were on the gravey train tbh

[alpine_saint]

we have not been jacked around

 

we were/are an appallingly run football club and have paid the price

the board, the players and YES us the fans are all to blame in some way

 

So what ?

 

The club hasnt broken any rules. And the FL has gone back on his own comments about the right of appeal.

 

Sorry, but the likes of Malwhinney and Scudamore are running football like personal fifedoms.

[Thedelldays]

So what ?

 

The club hasnt broken any rules. And the FL has gone back on his own comments about the right of appeal.

 

Sorry, but the likes of Malwhinney and Scudamore are running football like personal fifedoms.

 

 

how exactly...????

 

if pinnacle want us then the -10 wont be an issue

[The9]

Why would the FA be interested in taking control of the game when they've got money coming out of their ears ?

[OldNick]

the integrity of the sport is lost forever.

Is expect the PL are starting to look a little worried that Brcelona and Real are taking the worlds best players and soon the PL will be playing catch up.

No doubt were we in the PL we wouldnt be too worried at the plight of others. I was talking with firends of other clubs at the week end and it came apparent that if you were a s/t holder at Man U there are probably only 4-5 games that they would look forward to each season. Even to me the thought of Wigan , Pompey(wigan of the south, apart from being a derby) Bolton, Hull etc hardly inspires, so how do the Man u , Liverpool fans etc feel. Too many bit part clubs in that league (that would include us if we were there of course)

[PaulSaint]

how exactly...????

 

if pinnacle want us then the -10 wont be an issue

 

Is it -10 or -25 though?

[docker-p]

Didnt hear alot of your fans complaining when you were on the gravey train tbh

 

Nobodys complaining friend. We are about to be run by a footballing legend who is in it for the glory of the club, rather than being run by an arab trying to launder his money.

Compared to our good friends down the road we're in clover.

[alpine_saint]

how exactly...????

 

if pinnacle want us then the -10 wont be an issue

 

Who mentioned Pinnacle, FFS ?

[Thedelldays]

im sorry

 

 

but calling for change now and crying about it is way too little and far too late

 

no one had a real problem when we were in the prem and OTHER teams were in the poo...

 

I remember the threads on here laughing at Leeds and not on bit of sympathy for them....let alone support in fighting such a corrupt regime like the football league..

[Thedelldays]

Who mentioned Pinnacle, FFS ?

because..if pinnacle bought us and not made a fuss about the -10 then most of the threads on here would not exist at the mo

[alpine_saint]

Is it -10 or -25 though?

 

Yep. If we lie down and accept the -10, we are opening ourselves up to incurring the -25, simply because we are accepting the legitimacy of the premise we have been punished under.

 

How do we know Pinnacle arent happy to accept the -10 but are worried about an impending -15 ??

[alpine_saint]

because..if pinnacle bought us and not made a fuss about the -10 then most of the threads on here would not exist at the mo

 

You havent got a clue, have you ?

[alpine_saint]

im sorry

 

 

but calling for change now and crying about it is way too little and far too late

 

no one had a real problem when we were in the prem and OTHER teams were in the poo...

 

I remember the threads on here laughing at Leeds and not on bit of sympathy for them....let alone support in fighting such a corrupt regime like the football league..

 

People were laughing at Leeds because they are an unlikeable team with unlikeable fans, no other reason. We would have laughed if their entire squad gave each other genital herpes.

[OldNick]

Yep. If we lie down and accept the -10, we are opening ourselves up to incurring the -25, simply because we are accepting the legitimacy of the premise we have been punished under.

 

How do we know Pinnacle arent happy to accept the -10 but are worried about an impending -15 ??

that is a fair point. My understanding is that as long as we have paid up the HMRC then we will come out with a CVA. Perhaps you could be right and Pinnacle are spooked that we may not do so and wish that the FL agree not to do so. It is going down routes of paranoia to think this of course.

[alpine_saint]

that is a fair point. My understanding is that as long as we have paid up the HMRC then we will come out with a CVA. Perhaps you could be right and Pinnacle are spooked that we may not do so and wish that the FL agree not to do so. It is going down routes of paranoia to think this of course.

 

Its even more worrying than that.

 

I read on here that because SFC didnt go into adminstration, it cannot provide a CVA. Only SLH can and they no longer exist. The FL rules state that any club that cannot provide a CVA gets more points docked.

 

So SLH goes into admin, SFC gets points docked.

Because SFC didnt go into admin, it cannot provide a CVA, so gets more points docked.

 

What a cluster-f**k....

[aintforever]

Your right about football being in a mess but the FA are just as big a joke as the FL. The way West Ham got away without a deduction was a farce, especially compared with the way Luton were treated.

[saintsdan]

that is a fair point. My understanding is that as long as we have paid up the HMRC then we will come out with a CVA. Perhaps you could be right and Pinnacle are spooked that we may not do so and wish that the FL agree not to do so. It is going down routes of paranoia to think this of course.

 

Trouble is Nick, if my understanding of other people's comments on the subject is correct we aren't able to attain a CVA, and not because of disagreement with creditors.

 

A CVA relates to the process of coming out of administration with the support of the creditors, unfortunately in our case noone is coming out of administration. The football club itself has never been in administration and therefore cannot exit administration and cannot obtain a CVA while the PLC is being liquidated and hence not leaving administration with a CVA.

 

Hence if the league request a CVA there won't be one, cue additional deductions; -15 or -17 points (Bournemouth and Rotherham both had -17)

[OldNick]

Trouble is Nick, if my understanding of other people's comments on the subject is correct we aren't able to attain a CVA, and not because of disagreement with creditors.

 

A CVA relates to the process of coming out of administration with the support of the creditors, unfortunately in our case noone is coming out of administration. The football club itself has never been in administration and therefore cannot exit administration and cannot obtain a CVA while the PLC is being liquidated and hence not leaving administration with a CVA.

 

Hence if the league request a CVA there won't be one, cue additional deductions; -15 or -17 points (Bournemouth and Rotherham both had -17)

So by accepting the -10 it would mean we accept we had been in administration after all, and so then couldnt provide a CVA. Oh dear, Fry **** up????

[brightspark]

Is there any, ANY possible way that Saints, or even the majority of the fans, can take this case to someone out there who has the power to stamp on the Football League's disgraceful rulings.

 

We really need someone to challenge what they are doing. Surely there are groups out there who can take the league down?

[Evo]

I would have thought that SLH could try a CVA - you can presumably do a "quick CVA" the same way you can do a "quick IVA". The problem is that the IP fees this would incur would surely reduce the dividend to the creditors, hence making acceptance a problem. There's no rule that says SLH has to be liquidated, it's just the most efficient way of doing it (as I understand the situation).

 

Once SFC is in separate ownership to SLH, it's very difficult to say that they are linked. Certainly, if the FL tell the owners of SFC that SLH has to do something, the owners will be in an impossible position as they have no control of SLH and SLH would be under no obligation to do anything the SFC asks. But then, legally, that's the case now. SLH is not obliged to do anything that the FL requests, because it's not the football club. You can't put a third party under contract without their consent - that is, one of the other companies in the SLH umbrella cannot become liable under a contract it was not party to and did not give consent to.

 

This is a bid jumbled up as I've just typed it straight out but I think the gist of it is understandable

[Frank's cousin]

This whole CVA thing is actually a red herring - SFC will not be coming out of adinistration as it is NOT in administration... The new owners are buying certain assets from teh administrator of SLH for 15 mil - a figure agreed with SLH creditors which is in effect the same as SLH agreeing a CVA with their creditors. So the league cannot and will not impose further penalties, unless we still owed the HMCR or other clubs money...(or we go into admin as SFC in future) so that is not one of teh issues if you ask me.

[ringwood]

The biggest difference in all of this is

 

LAW ie enforceable by a court process

 

RULES ie enforceable by the ruling committee of a members only club

 

By law the FL can do nothing to prevent SLH selling SFC to whoever it likes, but it can prevent SFC being a member of its league according to its own rules.

 

However back to the start of the thread I take no one is ever allowed to change their viewpoint? Thats exactly what we're asking the FL to do, to allow a reexamination of the facts but probably from a LAW point of view rather than a moralistic interpretation of the RULES ,just a review which follows the actual wording of the RULES

 

So what if people laughed at Leeds, Brighton, Cherries the world and its political climate moves on.

[VectisSaint]

Looking at how we've been jerked around by the FL, and the way Sentanta's desperate efforts to avoid going under were torpedoed by the PL when everyone else was willing to support and wait for a takeover and re-negotiation, isnt it time the ultimate authority for football in this country DO SOMETHING to protect the integrity and future of the sport here ??

The FA run the PL, so how do you think the FA could help? If you think the FL are bad, the FA are a bunch of shambolic amateurs, after all they even thought appointing Lowe to their board was a good idea.

 

As for Sultana, bloody good riddance. They were crap, and no-one with any sense was going to pay for 2 subscriptions.

[70's Mike]

the FA have even more blaziers and amateurs than the FL

[Graffito]

Brass ones? Lord Smallwilly's got a brass neck anyway.

[Chez]

 

By law the FL can do nothing to prevent SLH selling SFC to whoever it likes, but it can prevent SFC being a member of its league according to its own rules.

 

what I don't understand is why having punished us do they seem intent on grinding us into the dirt? As one of the 72 members you'd think they'd be doing their best to help us survive not their utmost to have us liquidated.

 

Yes we did wrong and the -10 seems fair to me, but there is no reason whatsoever why the FL could not approve the new ownership, allow us to appeal and then reject that appeal if they see fit.

 

If they believe in their decision to **** us 10 points you'd think they would not fear an appeal in any way.

[Flyer]

The FA are worse at running things than the FL.

 

The Tevez affair, not relegating WHU, then Sheff U suing.

 

This is exactly what the FL is trying to stop in denying the right of appeal.

 

Saints could win an appeal, stay up by 5 points and then the 4th from bottom club could sue the FL for them not following the previous application of the rules.

[Pancake]

because..if pinnacle bought us and not made a fuss about the -10 then most of the threads on here would not exist at the mo

 

You havent got a clue, have you ?

 

But DD is right. if Pinnacle had agreed everything on Friday with the FL (we take the -10, they dont give us anymore due to the nature of the CVA) and you didnt know about it; then no-one on here would be saying "Oh woe is me, the FL are terribly awful fellows, are they not"?

 

Ignorance, sometimes, is bliss. Im all for going back to the days when I didnt know (or care) abut who was on the board or what the kit mans aunty did. All I care about is the 1 manager and 11+ players that play on the pitch. Let them fight their own battles in he board room, on the trading floor and in the ivory towers.

[Frank's cousin]

what I don't understand is why having punished us do they seem intent on grinding us into the dirt? As one of the 72 members you'd think they'd be doing their best to help us survive not their utmost to have us liquidated.

 

Yes we did wrong and the -10 seems fair to me, but there is no reason whatsoever why the FL could not approve the new ownership, allow us to appeal and then reject that appeal if they see fit.

 

If they believe in their decision to **** us 10 points you'd think they would not fear an appeal in any way.

 

Timing - they do not want a club going through te courts which could take months and even years which would make it impossible for all clubs in the league to know their final position until the courst reach a decision - the effect on clubs in terms of relegation and promotion could have further consequences etc - which is why the FL insist on member waiving the right to appeal against punsihments that have mandatory points deductions or impact on final placings.

 

I think in our case we were looking for the RIGHT to appeal as this would in effect open the door to having the penalty overturned asd the FL would not want this to drag on - I can see the FL's POV in this as it is about the consequences of legal action, but where the rules fall down is that they feel compelled to instigate penalties according to the stage in teh season which although means that the penalties have an impact, is from a legal perspective on dodgy ground - it also punishes new owners or puts them off, for sins of the past which is where you can see Pinnacles perspective.

[alpine_saint]

This whole CVA thing is actually a red herring - SFC will not be coming out of adinistration as it is NOT in administration...

 

So why did they deduct 10 points ?

 

If they can deduct 10 points and justify it, they are more than capable of deducting another 15 and justifying that too

[aintforever]

So why did they deduct 10 points ?

 

If they can deduct 10 points and justify it, they are more than capable of deducting another 15 and justifying that too

 

But surely if the creditors agree to what Pinnacle offer then SLH has in effect a CVA which but default means SFC does?

[VectisSaint]

what I don't understand is why having punished us do they seem intent on grinding us into the dirt? As one of the 72 members you'd think they'd be doing their best to help us survive not their utmost to have us liquidated.

But thats the point. Currently we are not members, we are applying to become members. On top of that we were also one of 20 clubs who almost destroyed the FL by breaking away and forming the Premier League in 1991. The FL will never forgive those 22 clubs who broke their monopoly on professional football in England and who destroyed their cash cow. Funnily enough Leeds were also among the 22, and they have had top rate treatment fF

[Frank's cousin]

So why did they deduct 10 points ?

 

If they can deduct 10 points and justify it, they are more than capable of deducting another 15 and justifying that too

 

Ahr...because teh FL think we are... i know its a bit of a mare to get our heads round, but I think I can see why its panned out as it has - SFC will be free from getting additional points deducted becayuse as far as teh FL is concerned SLH will have in effect a CVA in place - whether SFC accept that we are Inextricably linked to SLH is irrelevent - and as such teh FL could not also impose further Points deductions on SFC if they ahve already accepted the CVA in place between SLH and its creditors.... **** now even i am confused ;-)

Edited 23 June, 2009 by Frank's cousin

[Redondo Saint]

So why did they deduct 10 points ?

 

If they can deduct 10 points and justify it, they are more than capable of deducting another 15 and justifying that too

 

makes you wonder if administration was such a good thing as some on here believe..

[alpine_saint]

makes you wonder if administration was such a good thing as some on here believe..

 

Nothing to do with it whatsoever.

 

If SFC had gone into admin too, we would ahve got the -10points and the CVA issue would have been more straightforward.

 

The difficulty has arisen because of lowe trying to be clever about the relationship between SFC and SLH.

[adrian lord]

the integrity of the sport is lost forever.

Is expect the PL are starting to look a little worried that Brcelona and Real are taking the worlds best players and soon the PL will be playing catch up.

No doubt were we in the PL we wouldnt be too worried at the plight of others. I was talking with firends of other clubs at the week end and it came apparent that if you were a s/t holder at Man U there are probably only 4-5 games that they would look forward to each season. Even to me the thought of Wigan , Pompey(wigan of the south, apart from being a derby) Bolton, Hull etc hardly inspires, so how do the Man u , Liverpool fans etc feel. Too many bit part clubs in that league (that would include us if we were there of course)

 

 

Why do they buy seasons then and not just the 4 big game tickets...must have more money than sense!

[OldNick]

Why do they buy seasons then and not just the 4 big game tickets...must have more money than sense!

because it is hard to get individual tickets

[mack rill]

Nothing to do with it whatsoever.

 

If SFC had gone into admin too, we would ahve got the -10points and the CVA issue would have been more straightforward.

 

The difficulty has arisen because of lowe trying to be clever about the relationship between SFC and SLH.

 

Please correct me if i am wrong,,,,,,But i thought the reason you are in so much shyt with the -10 is because the red faced one waited till after the dead line day before placing you into administration.

[OldNick]

Please correct me if i am wrong,,,,,,But i thought the reason you are in so much shyt with the -10 is because the red faced one waited till after the dead line day before placing you into administration.

you skates spend so much time worried about us that you have become experts on all things Saints so why ask

[alpine_saint]

Please correct me if i am wrong,,,,,,But i thought the reason you are in so much shyt with the -10 is because the red faced one waited till after the dead line day before placing you into administration.

 

And he left it until then because he reckoned that SFC would not be punished for the misdemeanours of SLH.

 

Tw*t..(him, not you)

[saintwarwick]

Please correct me if i am wrong,,,,,,But i thought the reason you are in so much shyt with the -10 is because the red faced one waited till after the dead line day before placing you into administration.

 

SLH went into admin not SFC, hth.

[CB Fry]

The FA run the PL, so how do you think the FA could help? If you think the FL are bad, the FA are a bunch of shambolic amateurs, after all they even thought appointing Lowe to their board was a good idea.

 

As for Sultana, bloody good riddance. They were crap, and no-one with any sense was going to pay for 2 subscriptions.

 

The FA are worse at running things than the FL.

 

The Tevez affair, not relegating WHU, then Sheff U suing.

 

This is exactly what the FL is trying to stop in denying the right of appeal.

 

Saints could win an appeal, stay up by 5 points and then the 4th from bottom club could sue the FL for them not following the previous application of the rules.

 

 

Why do people still think the FA run the Premier League?

 

Christ, that hasn't been the case for well over a decade - in fact, I don't think they ever ran it - the "FA Premier League" title was just a fig leaf and an ego boost for the FA. They've never run the Prem.

[CB Fry]

Looking at how we've been jerked around by the FL, and the way Sentanta's desperate efforts to avoid going under were torpedoed by the PL when everyone else was willing to support and wait for a takeover and re-negotiation, isnt it time the ultimate authority for football in this country DO SOMETHING to protect the integrity and future of the sport here ??

 

 

a) We haven't been jerked around by anyone. The previous board jerked around (to say the least) and landed us where we are now, with a perfectly fair 10 point penalty.

 

b) The prospective new owners are making a bit too much of a song and dance about the ten point thing and the right to appeal. We don't need to appeal, the punishment is perfectly fair.

 

c) Not sure what the Premier League owes Setanta - Setanta have been taking £10 a month off 1.2m punters on the strength of broadcasting valuable assets they now can't pay for having had several extensions from the PL and SPL. Sentantas mismanagement could see several Blue Square and SPL clubs go into administration.

 

All a bit of a mixed up rant about nothing there, Alpine.

[alpine_saint]

a) We haven't been jerked around by anyone. The previous board jerked around (to say the least) and landed us where we are now, with a perfectly fair 10 point penalty.

 

b) The prospective new owners are making a bit too much of a song and dance about the ten point thing and the right to appeal. We don't need to appeal, the punishment is perfectly fair.

 

c) Not sure what the Premier League owes Setanta - Setanta have been taking £10 a month off 1.2m punters on the strength of broadcasting valuable assets they now can't pay for having had several extensions from the PL and SPL. Sentantas mismanagement could see several Blue Square and SPL clubs go into administration.

 

All a bit of a mixed up rant about nothing there, Alpine.

 

All of your demented frothings there are totally subjective, but stated as fact. I think I wont give them the dignity of a response...

[CB Fry]

All of your demented frothings there are totally subjective, but stated as fact. I think I wont give them the dignity of a response...

 

 

There's only one demented frother on this forum love, and it aint me you swivel eyed div.

 

Read your first post again and tell me where the non subjective bits are