badgerx16 Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 We'll be debt free with a £30m stadium we paid about £10m for at the end of this when it comes. Where's the natural justice for our creditors, then? The two major creditors by far, ( AFAIK ), are Barclays and AVIVA ( aka Norwich Union ). The first pulled the plug on Saints and precipitated this whole fiasco, so f$$$ them ! The second are part of the financial meltdown in the housing market, and have far greater losses to worry about in the grand scheme of things. The area where "natural justice" really comes in is with the innocent parties who have lost their jobs, and the small value creditors who would never have got anything from the administration process, as Rupert's little empire has come crashing down. Surely the simplest thing for the FL is to allow the appeal - after all, they are the ones who would determiine the outcome.
VectisSaint Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 My response to the above is the excellent point below. We'll be debt free with a £30m stadium we paid about £10m for at the end of this when it comes. Where's the natural justice for our creditors, then? Actually I don't believe we will. We will have cleared our debts in full and have a mortgage on the stadium as we had before. I don't believe anywhere is it agreed that the mortgage or any part of it has been or will be paid off. I would expect that Aviva will agree to a restructuring of the mortgage, but unless Pinnacle have actually agreed to pay the whole thing off I imagine that we will still have a mortgage in the end. I do howver believe that all the real creditors will have been paid in full, that is Barclays Bank and anyone who has had payments blocked since Lowe went over the agreed o/d limit in April.
benjii Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 (edited) Speaking of "justice for the creditors" with reference to commercial lending institutions is a nonsense. They decided to lend money in the name of commerce. Lenders take a risk that they will not be paid. If they don't want to take the risk they don't lend the money. There has been no fraud or misappropriation; they haven't been wronged. Edited 22 June, 2009 by benjii
CB Fry Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Speaking of "justice for the creditors" with reference to commercial lending institutions is a nonsense. They decided to lend money in the name of commerce. Lenders take a risk that they will not be paid. If they don't want to take the risk they don't lend the money. There has been no fraud or misappropriation; they haven't been wronged. Look, I don't give a monkey's about Aviva. But "they decided to do so and so" defence is also applicable to our dopey decision to go into administration and not expect a 10 point deduction. Southampton Football Club haven't been wronged, either. Swallow it.
SW11_Saint Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 And another thing... why do we need to know who the money-man is right now? Answer? We don't... We've come this far, let's just let Pinnacle get on with it... I agree. I can't see Pinnacle would have got this far without this backing, and TL has already stated that the backer has wealth to the tune of "hundreds of millions", so I'm quite happy to find out who he is when Pinnacle are ready.
Badvoc Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Just read this thread and some of the comments made about Pinnacle and Tony Lynam; one of which alluding to the use of stalling tactics, or worse some sort of underhand dealings from Tony. I know the guy personally (as do a number of loyal Saints and Pompey fans), although I haven't seen him for some time. I used to play football with him over a couple of years and what I can assure everybody is that Tony is 110% the real deal, and not a BS merchant. He is a great guy and I trust him implicitly with his comments to date about his assurances of his man purchasing the club. I am convinced it will happen. This is a scarey time for us all, but I know Tony and his representative are working their balls off to secure this deal. So, I would urge patience and support at this time because it would seem we are very near to finding out the whole story, with (hopefully) a terrific ending for us all.
benjii Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Look, I don't give a monkey's about Aviva. But "they decided to do so and so" defence is also applicable to our dopey decision to go into administration and not expect a 10 point deduction. Southampton Football Club haven't been wronged, either. Swallow it. I agree with that. You mentioned the creditors being wronged and I pointed out why you were wrong. That is all.
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8113850.stm At the end of this article it says that TL says the staff will paid (obviously I'm more concerned about the support staff rather than the overpaid numpties who consigned us to League 1)! That shows a certain degree of confidence that Pinnacle will close out the deal soon.
gjphilsaint Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 How many times have we all cried "Keep the Faith", the fact that it is so hard to do so sometimes typifies just how important faith this... but right now "Keep the faith" if needs be through blind loyalty... but keep it don't be swayed... have faith in your club and those who are trying to resurect it
kpturner Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 If the ten points penalty had been appealed immediately the issue would possibly already have been resolved.Appealed by whom?
kpturner Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 It is one thing trusting Matt, but what if he is being used?Of course he is not being use FFS!!! There are lots of very stupid people in this world, and MLT is not one of them.
Pugwash Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 BBC South just reported that Pinnacle have agreed tonight to pay the wages due on Thursday.
EBS1980 Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 BBC South just reported that Pinnacle have agreed tonight to pay the wages due on Thursday. Another step in the right direction. Just get it sorted tomorrow pleaseeeeeee
Leicestersaint Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Just relax everyone - it will be alright. I have trust in Matt le Tissier and I have been increasingly impressed by Tony Lynam.
Delmary Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 BBC South just reported that Pinnacle have agreed tonight to pay the wages due on Thursday. Some very positive news:)
Pugwash Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Just re-played it. BBC also said FOUR other bidders in the wings?
Mole Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 BBC South just reported that Pinnacle have agreed tonight to pay the wages due on Thursday. Excellent. This should ease some fears of fans on here.
Neil Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Is there any timescale now for getting this concluded then, bearing in mind the exclusivity has gone? Have we sorted the two minor legal issues with sub-clauses with the creditors, and can we crack the FL nonsense tomorrow? I appreciate Tony's updates but I'm rapidly losing the will to live on this, can't take another week. And my season ticket fund is diminishing by the day, as I invest in more and more alcohol to get through this!
CB Fry Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 I agree with that. You mentioned the creditors being wronged and I pointed out why you were wrong. That is all. Which puts the tin hat on any talk of "natural justice" on either side firmly in the bin, then. Good, that was the point I was making. The news that Pinnacle are paying the wages on Thursday is excellent.
RedAndWhite91 Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 I have been at work from 5 - just now, and I don't know about anything that has gone on these past 6 hours, would somebody please briefly fill me in on anything that has happened please?
Mole Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 I have been at work from 5 - just now, and I don't know about anything that has gone on these past 6 hours, would somebody please briefly fill me in on anything that has happened please? The football league have said we cannot appeal the 10 point penalty if we're to be given permission to play next season. Tony Lynam has stated the Pinnace deal with go ahead. Pinnacle are paying the wages on Thursday.
NSS Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Great news, I guess they realise they now have no option but to accept the leagues decision and buy the club anyway, unless the Pinnacle group have an ace up their sleeve that they are about to put on the table. Maybe the FL are holding a full house, Aces over Kings. But there again, Pinnacle may be holding a Royal Flush.
doggface Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 if pinnacle have agreed to pay the wages what do they get in return?
RedAndWhite91 Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 The football league have said we cannot appeal the 10 point penalty if we're to be given permission to play next season. Tony Lynam has stated the Pinnace deal with go ahead. Pinnacle are paying the wages on Thursday. Thanks. So basically, the whole Football League fiasco is over now, and they can get on with putting pen to paper?
saint_stevo Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Maybe the FL are holding a full house, Aces over Kings. But there again, Pinnacle may be holding a Royal Flush. Cryptic from someone who knows TL...........
Mole Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 The Sun have just added this article. Basically what we already know, but still thought i'd post the link. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2494616/Le-Tissier-is-on-a-loser.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=Football
Pugwash Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 if pinnacle have agreed to pay the wages what do they get in return? Exclusivity for the next three days?
RonManager Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 I have been at work from 5 - just now, and I don't know about anything that has gone on these past 6 hours, would somebody please briefly fill me in on anything that has happened please? Black and white people have learnt to live in harmony and all sickness has been banished from the earth. Apart from that it's been quiet.
Saint Charlie Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 if pinnacle have agreed to pay the wages what do they get in return? If they pay the wages it is surely a sign they will be completing the takeover!
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Exclusivity for the next three days? Could it be a loan.......?
Saint Charlie Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8113850.stm Suggests Pinnacle will pay the wages.
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Something in the Sun: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2494616/Le-Tissier-is-on-a-loser.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=Football Reiterates what we have been hearing.
St Landrew Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Black and white people have learnt to live in harmony and all sickness has been banished from the earth. Apart from that it's been quiet. lol.
Mole Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 If they pay the wages it is surely a sign they will be completing the takeover! And IMO Fry would also extend exclusivity as part of the arrangement. Therefore don't expect the deal done tomorrow as I initially thought. Perhaps it'll take a little longer.
obelisk Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 And IMO Fry would also extend exclusivity as part of the arrangement. Therefore don't expect the deal done tomorrow as I initially thought. Perhaps it'll take a little longer.
trousers Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Maybe the FL are holding a full house, Aces over Kings. But there again, Pinnacle may be holding a Royal Flush. Are you saying the money (wo)man is The Queen?
Red and White Army Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Dont people think now Pinnacle need to reveal who is behind them, they are losing trust quickly well it seems on here.....anyone can say they have a multi million pound man behind them BUT SAY WHO HE IS NOW, why isnt he speaking making announcements. Im doubting who is backing them and maybe if he even exists.... I said the same thing 3 weeks ago. The BBC clearly cut a lot of his interview too. They put a very negative spin on the story and clearly some fans seem to have believed it - but the bottom line is that TL said they want the club and that they will back down in the League don't! That is the most stupid negotiating tactic I've ever heard. Why bother playing the hand if you've told your opponent you'll fold at the end of the day anyway? I would expect school kids to play better poker than this. I just have a horrible feeling that the Pinnacle deal is not what most fans hope it is and the backer of the deal is now looking to get out. I hope I am wrong. At least the other bidders can now enter the frame so a resolution - for better or worse - will happen soon. It is too late for us to get a proper pre-season in, no matter who eventually takes us over. It's un****ingbelieveable mate. Tony has categorically stated he'll be buying the club. Matt Le Tissier (our clubs greatest ever hero WHO IS NO MUG) is part of the deal. Some people need to stop and think for once. Some of us do think for ourselves, which is why we smelt a rat right at the start of this deal. Exactly the same way as we saw right through Wilde when most of the fanbase opened up their mouths to deepthroat him. I would love to be proved wrong but all the doubts about Pinnacle are starting to look very valid. On the debit side All of a sudden, this consortium doesn't seem so clever. 1. Any further delays now are damaging the club big style. 2. If Pinnacle are so smart, why was the 'sticking point' not anticipated and dealt with within the 21 days? 3. If they are definitely going to buy the club, why not sign up now and focus on building a team capable of making up the ten points and still win the league! 4. Is 'Mr Big' pulling out, or perhaps he doesn't exist at all? 5. Why is Fry not saying/doing anything? 6. Of the only alternative bids, we have either a complete nutter or a phantom 'mystery bidder' possibly Swiss but certainly full of holes? On the credit side....................... Tony says everthing will be okay. And MLT is on the credit side. But I agree with the tenor of your post.
Third Division South Days Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Appealed by whom? SFC was an operating company, not in administration, and with a board of directors.
NickG Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 most of that is based on nothing. Re your preseason moan - NP was only appointed by Leicester this week a year ago - they did ok in this division.
NSS Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Are you saying the money (wo)man is The Queen? One doesn't wish to elaborate.
Pugwash Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 One doesn't wish to elaborate. So it's either Michael Schumacher or the Princess who won't pay her knickers bill then?
trousers Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 One doesn't wish to elaborate. By jove....I think I've got it....it's Brian May....isn't it? We are the champions, my friend
tpbury Posted 22 June, 2009 Posted 22 June, 2009 Glad I was too busy at work today. Missed all this s 5 i t. Still a news item on Talksport.
Tony Lynam Posted 23 June, 2009 Posted 23 June, 2009 Dear All forum users, and fans alike It's now the early hours of Tuesday morning, and before we sign off for the night, I thought you might appreciate some clarity, though appreciate that most of the fans who use this medium might not read this until tomorrow (by which time, this could well have been superseded). Clearly the Football Leagues position as announced this evening is of disappointment. However, discussions are on-going seeking to resolve this as quickly as possible. The League have a duty and responsibility for all of its members, so they have a different opinion to my own concerning certain aspects of our license (I only care about Southampton Football Club, whilst respecting other members in the right manner). The Administrators have made their position clear in their statement this evening, and it is pleasing to see that their views (which are totally independent to our own) are along the same lines as ours. I am still awaiting information from the League concerning their position and I should hope to have this without delay. This is not something I (nor my colleagues) can influence – rather one of those things which will happen as part of a normal process. We are not at loggerheads with the League. I have made this clear via other mediums this evening - we are working together for an acceptable solution to an issue, so please treat the League with the respect that they deserve. I spoke with 3 officials from the League today and whilst the content of those discussions will always remain confidential, I can assure you that the League are working hard to find an acceptable solution to this issue. Finger pointing and blame culture isn't going to resolve this. Rationale thinking and adult debate will, and common sense, law and the rule book will ensure a mutually agreeable outcome. I can only imagine too well how deeply frustrating this is for all of you - none more so than myself, but we remain totally committed and confident that our takeover will be concluded shortly, thus enabling us to get on with the important challenge ahead, putting Southampton Football Club back on the map for the right reasons. Please also spare a thought for all the staff at the Club who are working in difficult circumstances – they are top of our list of priorities, and so they should be. Thank you for your continued support, and I truly hope that these final hurdles will be out of the way without further delay. With kind regards Tony
InvictaSaint Posted 23 June, 2009 Posted 23 June, 2009 Dear All forum users, and fans alike It's now the early hours of Tuesday morning, and before we sign off for the night, I thought you might appreciate some clarity, though appreciate that most of the fans who use this medium might not read this until tomorrow (by which time, this could well have been superseded). Clearly the Football Leagues position as announced this evening is of disappointment. However, discussions are on-going seeking to resolve this as quickly as possible. The League have a duty and responsibility for all of its members, so they have a different opinion to my own concerning certain aspects of our license (I only care about Southampton Football Club, whilst respecting other members in the right manner). The Administrators have made their position clear in their statement this evening, and it is pleasing to see that their views (which are totally independent to our own) are along the same lines as ours. I am still awaiting information from the League concerning their position and I should hope to have this without delay. This is not something I (nor my colleagues) can influence – rather one of those things which will happen as part of a normal process. We are not at loggerheads with the League. I have made this clear via other mediums this evening - we are working together for an acceptable solution to an issue, so please treat the League with the respect that they deserve. I spoke with 3 officials from the League today and whilst the content of those discussions will always remain confidential, I can assure you that the League are working hard to find an acceptable solution to this issue. Finger pointing and blame culture isn't going to resolve this. Rationale thinking and adult debate will, and common sense, law and the rule book will ensure a mutually agreeable outcome. I can only imagine too well how deeply frustrating this is for all of you - none more so than myself, but we remain totally committed and confident that our takeover will be concluded shortly, thus enabling us to get on with the important challenge ahead, putting Southampton Football Club back on the map for the right reasons. Please also spare a thought for all the staff at the Club who are working in difficult circumstances – they are top of our list of priorities, and so they should be. Thank you for your continued support, and I truly hope that these final hurdles will be out of the way without further delay. With kind regards Tony Many thanks Tony for your continued communication. Million dollar question, but do you have any incling as to when this might come to a conclusion?
Verbal Posted 23 June, 2009 Posted 23 June, 2009 Which puts the tin hat on any talk of "natural justice" on either side firmly in the bin, then. Good, that was the point I was making. The news that Pinnacle are paying the wages on Thursday is excellent. I wonder if you'd agree to be culled. Humanely, of course. And nothing personal. It's just that there are two many damned Frys in all this - bank managers, administrators and impersonators of Howard Beale. Or perhaps we could merge all the Frys into one super-Fry. A mad-as-hell human torpedo of businesses and forums. Just thought.
tpbury Posted 23 June, 2009 Posted 23 June, 2009 Dear All forum users, and fans alike It's now the early hours of Tuesday morning, and before we sign off for the night, I thought you might appreciate some clarity, though appreciate that most of the fans who use this medium might not read this until tomorrow (by which time, this could well have been superseded). Clearly the Football Leagues position as announced this evening is of disappointment. However, discussions are on-going seeking to resolve this as quickly as possible. The League have a duty and responsibility for all of its members, so they have a different opinion to my own concerning certain aspects of our license (I only care about Southampton Football Club, whilst respecting other members in the right manner). The Administrators have made their position clear in their statement this evening, and it is pleasing to see that their views (which are totally independent to our own) are along the same lines as ours. I am still awaiting information from the League concerning their position and I should hope to have this without delay. This is not something I (nor my colleagues) can influence – rather one of those things which will happen as part of a normal process. We are not at loggerheads with the League. I have made this clear via other mediums this evening - we are working together for an acceptable solution to an issue, so please treat the League with the respect that they deserve. I spoke with 3 officials from the League today and whilst the content of those discussions will always remain confidential, I can assure you that the League are working hard to find an acceptable solution to this issue. Finger pointing and blame culture isn't going to resolve this. Rationale thinking and adult debate will, and common sense, law and the rule book will ensure a mutually agreeable outcome. I can only imagine too well how deeply frustrating this is for all of you - none more so than myself, but we remain totally committed and confident that our takeover will be concluded shortly, thus enabling us to get on with the important challenge ahead, putting Southampton Football Club back on the map for the right reasons. Please also spare a thought for all the staff at the Club who are working in difficult circumstances – they are top of our list of priorities, and so they should be. Thank you for your continued support, and I truly hope that these final hurdles will be out of the way without further delay. With kind regards Tony 1) Well done on spelling superseded correctly - it indicates a decent level of education. I'm not taking the mickey, you're clearly an intelligent person and that really matters. The other typos are down to being in a rush I'm sure. 2) I for one take on board your point that we shouldn't regard B Mc W and the FL as enemies. We need to work with them, even if we don't like them. A deluge of sweary emails to them is unlikely to result in what we want. 3) Go to bed
Nineteen Canteen Posted 23 June, 2009 Posted 23 June, 2009 Surely, if you really want to buy the club holding out for a questionable right of appeal seems odd IMO. Also, I assume that Pinnacle must have known or had a strong inkling that the FL would be very unlikely to budge on their decision or be in a mood for concessions. The longer this drags on it seems Pinnacle, if they buy the club, are making a rod for their own backs by not being in SMS today and actually running the club. Is the deal really being held up on a point of a potential right of appeal that they are likely to lose? Furthermore, if our friend Crouch allegedly stumped up the £500k is it safe to assume he will be given a directors role for his generosity? If so considering his ill chosen (at best) comments to R5L as to why the Holding Company was set up (to avoid league punishments that had not even been considered at the time - more Lowe foresight.) does this not put the FL firmly in the driving seat in defending an appeal? What are Pinnacle playing at and what is Crouch's role in all this? Stalling on a minor issue it's a bit like walking away from your dream house because the garden is a metre short of your ideal and you can't negotiate buying a strip of land from the farmer's field at the bottom of the garden so you walk away moments before completion and lose your deposit. Buy the effing house Pinnacle and sort it later, if your case is so strong the FL's sanctions will be easily thrown out anyway and you'll be able to appeal away.
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