Pat from Poole Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 FWIW I think that we have caught the FL out by being very very clever! But I think this is a battle we just cant win in this way. 10 points is not a massive obstacle, especially with a fantastic chairman, manager and support that we have/will have with this take over. I doubt we will incur a CVA(?) penalty as we are surely going to right off all our debts with the new owners. So why not take it on the chin and battle through next season. Yeah we were hit hard by the FL but we will give it back twice as hard if Pinnacle put their money where their mounth is / words into action! I guess it is a question as to whether we want to be a martyr for this cause? Many heros in the past have stood up and been remembered in legend. But at the end of the day am I or we brave enough to sacrifice everything for the cause? Not just for Saints but for Bournemouth, Luton an all the rest? I love my club and Im looking forward to next season. Im just not sure that im willing to risk that for the points. Thoughts? I think that realistically it's going to be a strong League this season and that our best chance of promotion may well have been 2010-11 with or without the 10-point penalty. I'd take the 10-point penalty, let Leeds,Charlton and Norwich get promoted, get a solid squad together to bond for a year and then really go for it in 12 months' time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 FFS lets just take the deduction like men, get a decent takeover and move on from this whole sorry mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGC Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 FFS lets just take the deduction like men, get a decent takeover and move on from this whole sorry mess. My thoughts exactly. Accept it and move on FFS. The sooner the better....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 hey 3 threads on this! How fair will the FL look if they let a club go out of business just because they were not willing to let a fair impartial trbunal look at their decision on points? They would look awful and IMHO wouldn't let it happen They would n't bat an eye lid.... they don't give a stuff. Its an old boys network with secret society rules. take the ten then **** all over the league - ffs lets just get the f u c k on with it!!!. Shake hand on a deal with the fl dumb arses that they won't try to land us with any other penalty's and move forward with good grace. we are now at the end of july and we need to be cracking on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westofshannonsaint Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 I want the new owner/board/club/team to fight for every available point in the coming season both on and off the pitch (regardless of morals). I have not voted as I fear further point deductions/wasted time, can we have an undecided option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Fight it and take them to court with an interim injunction pending a full hearing if they try and justify misusing their rules. .... and waste loads of dosh in the process. Be wise and use the money to buy a top notch striker that will score hat fulls of goals and get the points back that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Charteris Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 I'm all for making a fight of it and accepting the consequences. The FL was all too ready to roll over and let the "big" clubs drive a cart and horses through a loophole in the regulations 25 years ago when the plc thing first started. Then the Premier league happened and the FL rolled over again and spinelessly accepted the diktats issued by the group that we were part of at the time. Now they are taking out their pent up spite with petty vindictiveness on clubs like Luton, Bournemouth and now us. What the FL has failed to do again and again is punish the people responsible for each club's failure. Instead, they take it out on the innocent parties, the players, club employees and supporters. The people responsible escape Scot free. I, for one, really hope that not only do Pinnacle succeed in their bid but also run this through the courts until Mawhinney and his acolytes are exposed for the bunch of shallow, self-interested old f*rts that they are. Bring it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 I'm all for making a fight of it and accepting the consequences. The FL was all too ready to roll over and let the "big" clubs drive a cart and horses through a loophole in the regulations 25 years ago when the plc thing first started. Then the Premier league happened and the FL rolled over again and spinelessly accepted the diktats issued by the group that we were part of at the time. Now they are taking out their pent up spite with petty vindictiveness on clubs like Luton, Bournemouth and now us. What the FL has failed to do again and again is punish the people responsible for each club's failure. Instead, they take it out on the innocent parties, the players, club employees and supporters. The people responsible escape Scot free. I, for one, really hope that not only do Pinnacle succeed in their bid but also run this through the courts until Mawhinney and his acolytes are exposed for the bunch of shallow, self-interested old f*rts that they are. Bring it on. Absolutely loved this post! It should be accompanied by the Rocky soundtrack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubsaint Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 thats an unfair question, we have been given the 10 point deduction, i think it would be fairer if you asked, Should we fight for the right to appeal, or not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 When you consider that the League could even try and get us to start in Division 4 (as they did with Leeds), then taking the 10 point hit, staying in Div 3 and signing away your right to appeal actually sunds quite promising. Of course the argument could be that we're not Saints NewCo, but I think once again that would take some serious smoke and mirrors. This was taken from the Arbitration Panel's findings with regards Leeds: Regulation 11 requires a new Member (‘Leeds NewCo’) to start the following season in a lower league (L2). Leeds NewCo wanted to stay in L1. The League’s Board was receptive to the idea but on condition of a deduction of 15 points in the following season. Leeds NewCo agreed to this condition (and this is why they waived their right of appeal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 We are being blackmailed over our RIGHT to appeal. This is now about principles and Lord Mawhinney should not be allowed to get away with what he's doing. The Tory slimeball needs to feel the full force of a legal challenge and if his decision causes us financial loss then we should seek damages. The FL are trying to drag this out to get us to back down - this means that the Tory slimeball knows we will win the case in court. Call his bluff and don't surrender to the bully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 And in addition to the Leeds ruling i put up somehwere on this site, i think the following is a good read and helps flesh out what the League can and cannot do (particularly with reference an appeal). 12.3 Sporting sanctions and grounds for appeal don't make good reading for us as neither of the Force Majeure events would appear to have been met with regards us: http://www.football-league.co.uk/staticFiles/78/3/0,,10794~888,00.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 20 June, 2009 Share Posted 20 June, 2009 We are being blackmailed over our RIGHT to appeal. This is now about principles and Lord Mawhinney should not be allowed to get away with what he's doing. The Tory slimeball needs to feel the full force of a legal challenge and if his decision causes us financial loss then we should seek damages. The FL are trying to drag this out to get us to back down - this means that the Tory slimeball knows we will win the case in court. Call his bluff and don't surrender to the bully. We cannot take the league to court, as we are bound by Rule K (arbitration) of the FA rules & regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 20 June, 2009 Share Posted 20 June, 2009 To all those who voted YES (I voted NO), it isnt your 15million quid at stake here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 20 June, 2009 Share Posted 20 June, 2009 To all those who voted YES (I voted NO), it isnt your 15million quid at stake here. why is there £15m at stake i vote yes because knowing the football authorities if we push it they will deduct another 15 points. right or wrong they make the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tango Man Posted 20 June, 2009 Share Posted 20 June, 2009 Ten point deduction plus take overbid = Southampton FC saved ..the maths are that simple and Football will only accept that formula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 20 June, 2009 Share Posted 20 June, 2009 I'm concerned that we will never win a fight out with the FL, and if we do decide to slug it out we could lose league status totally. I vote for taking the 10pt hit and making our point on the pitch. If we do have the funds to build a decent side along with a strong manager it will not take that long to overturn the -10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwantsapint Posted 20 June, 2009 Share Posted 20 June, 2009 Lets take the punishment like a man Get new manager in Give new manager cash that appeal would cost to buy players who will overturn -10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 20 June, 2009 Share Posted 20 June, 2009 -10 and move on.We need to prepare and my worry is that we are NOT going to be ready for another season...Has Wotte gone..Hope so...Need football peeps to lead and prepare...Takeover Monday/Tuesday and get cracking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 20 June, 2009 Share Posted 20 June, 2009 Take the deduction, get this deal sorted out, end the uncertainty and insecurity that has surrounded the club since I can remember, and get this season out the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrent Of Abuse Posted 21 June, 2009 Share Posted 21 June, 2009 If we got off it, I think we'd be hated by every club up and down the country for the next 20 years. We could win a cup final and still be known as the team that cheated their way out of a penalty. And that's the best we can hope for. At worst, we'll be punished further by the FL. Take the 10 points, Let the FL's unfair treatment of us act as a catalyst to bring us together with a common enemy, appoint a decent chairman and manager and let our football do the talking. And burn an effigy of Maahhhhwinnet outside the stadium after the final of the 2016 FA Cup Final when we show the f**kers in suits that we have long memories and little time for the Kings of f**kwittery at the FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 June, 2009 Share Posted 21 June, 2009 I couldn't give a monkeys if every other club hate us, if there is a loophole we can exploit then we should do it. I don't think it's likely we will achieve much but if the legal bods think we have a chance we should appeal. I don't care what any of the happy clappers on here say, -10 pretty much rules out promotion for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExSt Peter Saint Posted 21 June, 2009 Share Posted 21 June, 2009 -10 and then use that as a motivational tool as other clubs have, but make sure we're good enough to get up. If the owners have enough money to retain the best players and bring in some new blood, that will fire us up the league, so there's no reason why we can't be successful even with a handicap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 21 June, 2009 Share Posted 21 June, 2009 If we got off it, I think we'd be hated by every club up and down the country for the next 20 years. We could win a cup final and still be known as the team that cheated their way out of a penalty. And that's the best we can hope for. At worst, we'll be punished further by the FL. Take the 10 points, Let the FL's unfair treatment of us act as a catalyst to bring us together with a common enemy, appoint a decent chairman and manager and let our football do the talking. And burn an effigy of Maahhhhwinnet outside the stadium after the final of the 2016 FA Cup Final when we show the f**kers in suits that we have long memories and little time for the Kings of f**kwittery at the FL. I still can't see how on earth the FL have treated us unfairly. We had the lamest "cheat" on a system I have ever seen, it was pathetic when Fry/Lowe/Wilde announced it on day one. They were never, ever going to get away with it. And the FL chucked it in the bin where it belonged. Ten point deduction, and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 21 June, 2009 Share Posted 21 June, 2009 I still can't see how on earth the FL have treated us unfairly. We had the lamest "cheat" on a system I have ever seen, it was pathetic when Fry/Lowe/Wilde announced it on day one. They were never, ever going to get away with it. And the FL chucked it in the bin where it belonged. Ten point deduction, and move on. Mawhinney stated we had the right to appeal. Presumably you agree with the FL withdrawing this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 21 June, 2009 Share Posted 21 June, 2009 I still can't see how on earth the FL have treated us unfairly. We had the lamest "cheat" on a system I have ever seen, it was pathetic when Fry/Lowe/Wilde announced it on day one. They were never, ever going to get away with it. And the FL chucked it in the bin where it belonged. Ten point deduction, and move on. cheat = outside of the rules what we did was within them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 Mawhinney stated we had the right to appeal. Presumably you agree with the FL withdrawing this right. Didn't we have the right to appeal about eight weeks ago. Everyone's got a right to appeal anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 cheat = outside of the rules what we did was within them. Was it f**k. Simply delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 I still can't see how on earth the FL have treated us unfairly. We had the lamest "cheat" on a system I have ever seen, it was pathetic when Fry/Lowe/Wilde announced it on day one. They were never, ever going to get away with it. And the FL chucked it in the bin where it belonged. Ten point deduction, and move on. Agree again......!!!!!! How about that then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 Was it f**k. Simply delusional. lol i agree with you...you could imgine the uproar on here if leeds were going to get away with it this season and not us.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 I'd take the safe option of accepting the deduction. The Football League have us by the balls, just like they've had Leeds, Rotherham, Bournemouth and Luton in similar situations. I'm with Steve. We've made the gesture to fight it now, that's enough. If it puts the Pinnacle takeover in jeopody we should not gamble any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 Didn't we have the right to appeal about eight weeks ago. Everyone's got a right to appeal anything. If we have a right to appeal do the FL have the right to deduct more points if the appeal isnt upheld? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red And White Barmy Army Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 you simply don't kick up a fuss in football when the authorities get involved. It's suicide. All over a number of points which could be made up in 4 games, and probably will given that we're playing millwall, stockport, swindon, etc this season. The FL will always win no matter how immoral or illegal I'm afraid. Pinnacle, can we please put a short-term matter of principle to one side to ensure the long-term future of my beloved football club. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 I'm just so wholly fed up with the politics and division that all I want to see is for Pinnacle to secure the takeover, install whatever manager they see fit and prepare for the new season so we can hit the ground running. Take the 10 point hit and damn their eyes .. Or even damn their duckpond !! ( Blackadder - Series 3) ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 I'm just so wholly fed up with the politics and division that all I want to see is for Pinnacle to secure the takeover, install whatever manager they see fit and prepare for the new season so we can hit the ground running. Take the 10 point hit and damn their eyes .. Or even damn their duckpond !! ( Blackadder - Series 3) ! We been in political turmoil for years now. A few more days is nothing in that context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 You bunch of wimps... ! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildgoose Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 I'd personally take the -10 points and move on but totally understand fighting for the righ to appeal. This is a matter of principle. Everyone should have the right of appeal. TL is fighting for that right even though he and the new board may choose not to use it......in the end whether they do or not is not the issue, it's the right to do it should they so wish. If the club did then appeal and lost, the decision would be accepted. It is the right of appeal itself that is being defended. Rightly so IMO i) based on what we know (...and I realise we probably don't know the whole story) and ii) even by Lord M's own statements of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 I have voted NO! Not because I feel we have been unfairly treated by the FL in respect of having the 10 point penalty enforced but, because I feel the FL are completely out of line in blackmailing us over this "waive your right to appeal or you can't join the league". This is out of order in 2 respects, Firstly it is illegal to blackmail in Britain and secondly, its is everyone's right to appeal, even the dirty, filthy child molesters are afforded the right to appeal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 The Football League is an organisation that Saints belong to, as such we have already agreed to follow their rulings including any points deductions. Any 'appeal' is a right granted by said organisation, not by law. If there is no such 'right' then we cannot then retrospectively ask for one. Petulance on our part will only serve to damage the club further. Take the points deduction and play the game in the right league, don't take it and find another league to join... ...simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Le Shearer Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 my answer to this question depends...on how long it would take Pinnackle to get the club bought and going again,if they persist on having a right to appeal. if this drags on for another couple of weeks,then the lack of preparation for the new season may well cost us more than the 10 points we now are deducted. even if an apeal goes through,if the team arent prepared & no players/manager are brought in in due time..I think we might lose more than 10 points because of this. if the takeover can be completed within Pinnackle`s demands by the end of this week,then I vote "no"-we should not accept the deduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red And White Barmy Army Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 i noticed on SSN this morning that Keegan's promotion pts total seems to be around the 90-100 mark. even if we did lose 10 points (ignornoring other factors such as preperation) i think 80-90 pts would be pretty good and if we have to do it through the play-offs then i won't say no to a trip to wembley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 22 June, 2009 Share Posted 22 June, 2009 So long as we don't risk further points deductions then i'd be cool with battling on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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