SFC Forever Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Maybe not but I bet Santa Cruz pays his bills on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 8.40pm update - SSN have just reported that Fry is now opening things up to other bidders and also confirmed the FL want Pinnacle to sign a non-appeal committment. They also reported that everything was in place ie money etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 8.40pm update - SSN have just reported that Fry is now opening things up to other bidders and also confirmed the FL want Pinnacle to sign a non-appeal committment. They also reported that everything was in place ie money etc. It isn't a update, I saw the same thing around an hour ago. It will just keep being repeated through-out the night. Nothing but doom and gloom supporting Saints and I love this club too much to turn away. I have hardly seen the good times, tbh the only memories I really have is the FA Cup 03 and The Great Escape in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tac-tics Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 What Mawhiney is doing is profoundly illegal! Its ****ing blackmail, why has'nt Fry extended the deadline, Pinnicle have doen everything in their power to wrap up the deal, The FL have seen that if Southampton take them to court, it will be egg on the face of the FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Why can't the Club/Pinnacle get an injunction out if this FL move is as unlawful as it seems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 What Mawhiney is doing is profoundly illegal! Its ****ing blackmail, why has'nt Fry extended the deadline, Pinnicle have doen everything in their power to wrap up the deal, The FL have seen that if Southampton take them to court, it will be egg on the face of the FL. Remember, we don't know the whole story and also remember that it is Frys job to get this club sold as quickly as possible to a viable buyer and I'm sure if there are other viable buyers out there willing to buy and sign the clause, he will do that. I personally think Pinnacle will still end up buying us, but remember that we don't know the whole story. Patience is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberdare Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 I often agree with you but this time I think the Pinnacle lot should stand firm. SLH and SFC have acted within the FL rules so should IMO not be penalized with the points deduction. The new company that owns SFC will be punished for the mismanagment of SLH. SFC can only surive if SLH manage an accommodation with their mortgagor to both write down and assign the debt. Tell me how that is not inextricably linked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthred Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 get ready for the swiss group to enter the negotiations again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 SFC can only surive if SLH manage an accommodation with their mortgagor to both write down and assign the debt. Tell me how that is not inextricably linked? Why? SFC can pay a rent to anybody who provides an acceptable stadium in which to play. It has happened may times before - Charlton and Wimbledon spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 So it's down to the last hand in the game of poker... has pinnacle got a good hand or are bluffing against FL's with a couple of ace's up their sleeve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 What Mawhiney is doing is profoundly illegal! Its ****ing blackmail, why has'nt Fry extended the deadline, Pinnicle have doen everything in their power to wrap up the deal, The FL have seen that if Southampton take them to court, it will be egg on the face of the FL. If you are referring to the period of exclusivity, I don't think that he has the mandate to make that call. Remember, there are still other bidders on the periphery of this deal who may very well still have an interest in trading. Fry would effectively be blocking what is after all a 'free market' if he extended the period of exclusivity as paid for by Pinnacle and no doubt communicated to those other interested parties. I don't think that he can stop them re-entering the market now if they so wish. How much notice he takes of them, and whether he uses their interest to his advantage is another question of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 get ready for the swiss group to enter the negotiations again And what happened to the mysterious Irish who popped up for one day? IMHO big tactical error by Pinnacle, if the Swiss/Irish offer more now exclusivity is past one has to again question why it took so long to get to this stage. Wages next week doesn't give them or Fry much leeway Yes there is a strong legal case, but Pinnacle should sign the non legal action letter IF they want the club. if they DON'T sign it then that is probably more worrying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronCitySaint Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Was just thinking whether they could try and do something a bit tricky and make all of this a mute point. Lets say that Southampton FC file an appeal to the ten point penalty with the Football League first thing tomorrow morning so that sets the appeal in process in motion and it is done by the existing owners. Then the idiots at the FL can't get anyone to sign a contract saying they won't appeal when the takeover is complete as the appeal is already underway. Suppose they could ask for the new owners to withdraw the appeal but that is even more dodgy. Probably a dumb idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 The period of exclusivity doesn't end till midnight I thought. No-one can enter negotiations untill then surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 The period of exclusivity doesn't end till midnight I thought. No-one can enter negotiations untill then surely? Can you honestly see a deal being done before midnight????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Was just thinking whether they could try and do something a bit tricky and make all of this a mute point. Lets say that Southampton FC file an appeal to the ten point penalty with the Football League first thing tomorrow morning so that sets the appeal in process in motion and it is done by the existing owners. Then the idiots at the FL can't get anyone to sign a contract saying they won't appeal when the takeover is complete as the appeal is already underway. Suppose they could ask for the new owners to withdraw the appeal but that is even more dodgy. Probably a dumb idea! Actually it might have been a good idea,if only the administrators or 'the club' had entered the appeal immediately.Leaving it 4-6 weeks or however long has enabled this to be brought into negotiations now. We are assuming this is the only stumbling block of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 The period of exclusivity doesn't end till midnight I thought. No-one can enter negotiations untill then surely? The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Contractually there is a fixed period of agreement but I'm sure that Fry has the best interest of the creditors at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Can you honestly see a deal being done before midnight????? No But I was thinking surely that means this is ******** as he can't enter in negotiations with people yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 He knows they can't complete within time, therefore I guess he's keen to open negotiations again. At the end of the day he's charged with getting the best price for the club and isn't particularly worried who he sells to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Only with us, eh? Poopey will reveal that their new owners are arms dealers and torturers but the FA will find some polite way round rocking their Prem boat, because a number of their little gang of owners don't stand up to close scrutiny, while we will be shafted out of existence over some technicality and a tawdry t*sspot Tory tw*t like Mawhinney taking a stand on principle for the first time in his tawdry t*sspot Tory tw*ttish life Well said Sid. I have always thought he was a cn_ut and he's proving it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Chill out people, most of us knew it wouldn't end today, it never does. I doubt whether it's completely about the non-appeal, I suspect the new owner is trying to hide from the football league as well; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Chill out people, most of us knew it wouldn't end today, it never does. I doubt whether it's completely about the non-appeal, I suspect the new owner is trying to hide from the football league as well; apparently the names had been approved BUT WHO THE F*CK KNOWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble the Hamster Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 I agree with the sentiment that if Pinnacle don't sign we are in a bad position. We do not have time to mess around any further. The FL probably can't afford to budge on the non appeal issue; they would have merry hell on their hands from clubs previously penalised in cercumstance of similar nature. Despite the fact they are a bunch of slow, half-witted to***rs we may have no chance. If its true that Leeds signed something similar that is bad for us also. I think we have to grin and bear it. Its better to exist than try too hard to be clever and screw the FL. IMO. Also Fry has to do his job. He deals with administration. Done a decent job in my book. Can't blame him for this latest debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Just take the 10 point deduction, we are never going to beat the FL at this, bunch of wan*ers. agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble the Hamster Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Well I suppose Amesbury summed my thoughts up well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 agreed Just maybe, the holdup is over the possible imposition of further deductions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Just maybe, the holdup is over the possible imposition of further deductions? has anybody actually said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Chill out people, most of us knew it wouldn't end today, it never does. I doubt whether it's completely about the non-appeal, I suspect the new owner is trying to hide from the football league as well; I'm with you basically, this is not about the 10 point deduction. If it is then Pinnacle are complete knobs (and I don't think they are). There is something more, maybe its additional point deductions, maybe its something else. The 10 point deduction and the fact that it was not appealable was there all along, no there is something else occurring here. If it were about the 10 points then logic would say bugger it, we'll start with -10 and still walk this league (especially if there is decent money to invest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Just maybe, the holdup is over the possible imposition of further deductions? That's been my biggest fear since day 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 has anybody actually said that? They don't need to. The 10 points is just the start. The others may be applied depending on how we come out of administration, not that we are in it, technically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 That is the one thing that I have been worried about for weeks. What happens when we come out of Administration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obelisk Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Would it really not have been possible to sort out these technical details sometime during the last three weeks? I guess not since this is Saints we're talking about. Gather again on Monday for more fun and games then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Would it really not have been possible to sort out these technical details sometime during the last three weeks? I guess not since this is Saints we're talking about. Gather again on Monday for more fun and games then. I am sure they will be busy tomorrow as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 whether its Pinnacle, the swiss or Mr Xerox, nobody would buy a club who doesn't have its league status guarenteed surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Blimey, I go to football, and a few hours later I come back to 3 new pages on this thread! Can somebody please sum up what was happened since around 8pm please, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Blimey, I go to football, and a few hours later I come back to 3 new pages on this thread! Can somebody please sum up what was happened since around 8pm please, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks. Nothing new. It's all gone quiet since then really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Blimey, I go to football, and a few hours later I come back to 3 new pages on this thread! Can somebody please sum up what was happened since around 8pm please, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks. Well, I think that... - League wanted Pinnacle to agree to no appeal against 10 point deduction. - Piannacle refused to do so, so no deal has happened and none is likely before the midnight deadline and end of exclusivity. - Because of this Mark Fry has opened discussions with other consortiums. - And the football league are to hold an emergency meeting regarding us on monday. Anyone who knows otherwise, feel free to correct me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 What a horrible day. It seems that the hot air of the last few days of speculation have mearly masked the reality which I feared on wednesday. With hindsight & given the exclusivity extension request rejection, I think pinnacle have been aware of all the main issues all week but have been working hard to resolve them but as they expected - ran out of time. The fat lady has not sung yet but I think we are all feeling pretty desperate tonight, let's hope they can resolve things early next week. More pulling on the heart strings awaits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Well, I think that... - League wanted Pinnacle to agree to no appeal against 10 point deduction. - Piannacle refused to do so, so no deal has happened and none is likely before the midnight deadline and end of exclusivity. - Because of this Mark Fry has opened discussions with other consortiums. - And the football league are to hold an emergency meeting regarding us on monday. Anyone who knows otherwise, feel free to correct me. Thanks mate, this doesn't look all too promising does it. So basically, the Football League have buggered up our takeover, and now Pinnacle are out? It looked pretty depressing before I went out, when I knew what was going on, I didn't think it could get worse, however, I think it has.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Pinnacle are not out, they are still very much in and are ahead of all other consortiums etc just without exclusivity. They have proved funds and gone thru the proper persons tests so are still a long way ahead of the rest. They obviously believe they have a watertight appeal against the points deduction, but it seems the FL want to sweep it under the carpet and not go through the hassle of possibly being proven wrong...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Just maybe, the holdup is over the possible imposition of further deductions? or the removal of current penalty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 or the removal of current penalty If they were not confident of overturning the deduction they would probably have accepted the FL's offer. People say its only 4 games etc, but 10 points could mean the difference between Automatic promotion or the lottery of the play offs (or staying up and relegation in my current negative mood) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 or the removal of current penalty I’d love to think that could happen, but I very much doubt it tbh - that would open up a huge can of worms that will just cause a cascade effect through the entire football league - they will not let this happen. Which is why (imo) they are now clambering around trying to find other ways to get out of this, or reasons to punish us even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokingFun Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Pinnacle are not out, they are still very much in and are ahead of all other consortiums etc just without exclusivity. They have proved funds and gone thru the proper persons tests so are still a long way ahead of the rest. They obviously believe they have a watertight appeal against the points deduction, but it seems the FL want to sweep it under the carpet and not go through the hassle of possibly being proven wrong...... I posted this on Tony's thread, more or less my sentiments exactly: The interesting thing for me is that Fry specifically came out and said that there was a very strong case for the football club not to get a deduction as the football club was definitely not in administration and that was before the FL had the previous emergency meeting following their 'independent' accounting standards review. Now, a man in his position would surely not have gone public on that issue so readily unless there was a very strong legal case for not getting the deduction so this smacks of the FL not getting their rules watertight and then trying to save face with other clubs by hoping Fry and any new owners would simply forget about it and move on. It seems that is not the case and therefore I suspect the FL are on very dodgy ground. After all, why would they bother with an emergency meeting otherwise? Surely if they were not worried they would simply say 'go ahead boys and take your chances, we are watertight on this one and don't need no meeting to resolve it as we stick by our decision.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 What a disaster. This type of news regarding the taking is really making me feel stressed. I keep reading the threads on this forum in search of some good news, but by the looks of things, it could turn into the worst case scenario, where we dont even have a club! Unfortunately, these things happen, but can things get even worst to such a wonderful club with loads of history! We'll have to see tomorrow morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 That is the one thing that I have been worried about for weeks. What happens when we come out of Administration? Exactly.... so sign the agreement on the proviso that is the end of the matter. We will take ten oints but no more... shake hand s and move on.... and feckin quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 cant see why stockport had their 10 points taken off last season, didn't affect them. ours added on this year. perhaps they dont like the fact that we used to beat the likes of manure, arse, and deaderpool, and worried that when we get back to the loads of money p'ship wud do the same again!! Still manure and co. can be 100's of millions in debt, but they make for good telly, but not on setanta (went bust bcause given crappy monday night games between nonenities). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 Just maybe, the holdup is over the possible imposition of further deductions? We'll know by the end of the FL's Monday meeting. I don't expect sweeties from Lord MacWindbag. (Oh dear, I hope I haven't upset him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfdelsur Posted 19 June, 2009 Share Posted 19 June, 2009 I know its a long shot and i dont know how it works, but cant pinnacle go to UEFA or FIFA and complain about the FL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Halo* Posted 20 June, 2009 Share Posted 20 June, 2009 I'm with you basically, this is not about the 10 point deduction. If it is then Pinnacle are complete knobs (and I don't think they are). There is something more, maybe its additional point deductions, maybe its something else. The 10 point deduction and the fact that it was not appealable was there all along, no there is something else occurring here. Indeed, there is 'something more' to it than just the points deduction; and the key is here: Frustrated administrator Mark Fry this evening told the Daily Echo; "There are a number of very small issues that remain but the principle one of which is the Football League situation. "They have agreed to have an emergency meeting on Monday but until any bidder can be satisfied about membership of the League they won't complete a purchase of the club." This is not only about the deduction, but actual membership of the Football league. And as Mark Fry is indicating, no bidder, Pinnacle or otherwise, is going to want to complete a purchase of the Club if the Football League are failing to guarantee the Club will have a place in the League for the coming season. It appears (from studying the various information we've seen over the last few days), that the FL has engaged in a little "repositioning of the goalposts". All was on course, deal agreed, finances in place, new Board of Directors approved. But, it would seem that when the FL read our Legal Documentation regarding the structure of our deal and the way it is formulated, that SFC Ltd would have a very good legal case against the points deduction. The following FL Regulations (governing the appeals process) are noteworthy: Any Appeal must be in writing and be received by the League at its registered office no later than 7 days after The League serves the Notice. The Appeal must contain a statement setting out the grounds of appeal and provide copies of any documentation upon which the Club intends to rely in support of the Appeal. The Club must also lodge with the Executive, at the same time as the Appeal, a deposit of £5,000 in respect of the costs of the appeal. So unless The Administrator of SLH had already lodged this appeal and payed the corresponding sum, at the time when he was first speaking about it (and very well, I might add) in the media, then the usual SSAP (Sporting Sanctions Appeal Panel) process is no longer available to us. Time has long since expired. Leaving only a costly legal challenge as a future option. Lord Mawhiney (sp intentional) must've been feeling pretty pleased with himself. He holds grudges; and he's just settled a long standing one (against his old adversary, Rupert Lowe). But, what if, your Organization had already previously responded to an inquiry from SFC/SLH (before going into Administration), stating explicitly that it had to be the "Football Club" and not the "Holding Company" going into Administration, in order for points to be deducted? What if, you then called an "Emergency Meeting" to justify a u-turn in your position (against your own rules and regulations) to 'find' that the Holding Company and the Club are "inextricably linked"? Ahh, well then, you could just brush it all under the carpet and pat yourselves on the back. But then, what if the way our bid's documentation is structured and formulated, exposes the weakness of the Football League's position (and the illegality of their actions), and that by signing it, they are leaving themselves open to being torn apart in court by a legal challenge? Well, then you could try to throw in a clause which states that for SFC's membership to be accepted, you must sign a statement waiving your right to a Legal Appeal. In other words, if you don't agree not to take us to court and expose our incompetence, then we won't sign off your takeover, and you won't have a League Football Club anyway. Scare tactics. (Otherwise known as blackmail). The FL knows that is has f*cked up royally, and is franticly scampering around (again), calling emergency meetings, and trying to cover it's tracks. They will do everything they can, to force their decision and it's consequences (points deduction) down our throats. Including threatening to scupper our takeover and effectively finish our Club off. That's some thin ice you're treading on there, Mr. Mawhiney. I'd tread very carefully, if I were you. Personally, if I were Pinnacle / Mark Fry, I'd be inclined to hold my nerve and call their bluff. The Legal implications for the FL (in light of their previous actions and what they're now trying to do) could be enormous. This is all in my personal opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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