Smirking_Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Just face it, whatever the legal shenanigans might be you fully deserve the 10 point penaltyand should just accept it and get on with it. If it was any other club you lot would be saying the same as me F*ck off
scotty Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Sure. I can tell you categorically that f**kall will happen til tomorrow at 3:40pm. FACT
*Halo* Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 21 Minutes till deadline. RIP SFC. Steady on 1976_Child, you're going to give yourself an aneurysm. It's not all just going to fall apart as the big hand passes 5 'o' clock (or 7 'o' clock or whatever 'o' clock). From the information that can be ascertained through reading here and elsewhere today, the deal itself is agreed. The finances are in place, and the Administrator is happy to conclude the sale. Just because a certain bitter and twisted grudge-holding Lord MuppetWhinger at the FL wants to try to throw a spanner in the works to paper over the cracks of his monumental c*ck up, that is not going to jeopardize the Pinnacle deal. As Derry explains, so long as Mark Fry is happy that Pinnacle have completed their end of the deal, and it is the FL holding things up through their own pedantry, it is at his (Fry's, not the FL's) discretion as to whether to extend the deadline or not. There would be little reason I can see for him to blow out a perfectly good deal that he, the Club, the new owner and creditors alike are all happy with. I'm sure Fry, Pinnacle and our Legal teams know what they're doing. I expect Mahwinney likely shat himself when reading the legal documentation regarding the structure of the deal for the Club, and is pussyfooting around to work out how to extricate himself; hence the delays. We just have to hold our (collective) nerve whilst the FL exhaust their options and realize they've been thoroughly outwitted and have no leg to stand on. Then they'll have no choice but to ratify the deal, once they consider the likely consequences of a legal challenge. Just be patient for a little while longer mate. I am sure things will all work out fine.
SaintRobbie Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 +1, this club will be the f*cking death of me! LOL... it will be OK.... you lived through the Lowe years. Any news is good news on this takeover from now on in... enjoy
SFC Forever Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 My take on the bulletin is that the 10 points are the main problem.
alpine_saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Mawhinney is a prize front-bottom. Arrogant, smirking, nasty little pigmy.
jimmysaint7 Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Man U and Liverpool aren't in the FL. No wonder the premiership broke away. A bit like what's happening in Formula 1 today - are Lord Mahwinny and Max Mosely the same person? You never see them in the same room. read above i know there not in the football league it was a example. lets leave it there hey
up and away Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 The league are on dodgy ground. despite three sets of lawyers reviewing the league rules Pinnacle employed their own lawyers to get an independent opinion. The three sets of lawyers representing the club, administrators and Pinnacle came to the same conclusion. Now the league have a big problem because SLH is going to be liquidated. SFC and the other assets have been sold and the club is no longer connected to the public company being delisted/liquidated and is still trading having never gone into administration. No voluntary creditors agreement is needed as the debts have been paid off and the club continues without administration. The leagues rules never covered this case and a broad interpretation was their solution. Any appeal would be carried out by a QC chaired tribunal and it is a pretty good bet the points deduction would be overturned. I suspect it has suddenly dawned on the league that SFC cannot be inextricably linked to a liquidated SLH if it is not in administration and still trading debt free after an injection of capital. The football club would have to be charged and found guilty of maladministration for points to be deducted. As for the club being stopped trading by the league without it going into administration just won't wash. That's very interesting, but on that basis I cannot see the FL are on dodgy ground. The nub of the 10 point deduction is because the club could no longer effectively pay their bills. If you were to take the FL rules as a basis for trade between companies I could understand, but this is for the equitable running of a sporting body. We are no different to any other club that has gone into administration but for the exception of name only, on that basis we deserve the 10 point deduction. I really doubt the courts would rule against a sporting body for taking such action when we are as guilty as sin, but not in name. I could fully understanding the club having a very strong case if the FL informed us we would suffer no deduction for SLH going into administration prior to the deadline. The rules of a sporting body such as the FL are based upon the members having a fair and level playing field. I cannot see a court interfering in those issues when they have been doing excatly that. It could be a far different case if we were innocent!
1976_Child Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 I have just docked the FL 20 points. They will start next season on -20 for being a bunch of pony ****ers
Toadhall Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 all very strange if it is due to the points deduction, it has been known about for weeks surely pinnacle would have adjusted their offer price to reflect it confusing The way I read it (and I could be totally wrong) is that the FL aren't happy with Pinnacle buying just SFC (training ground etc) as this would suggest that the football club and SLH were not "inextricably" linked and therefore the case against the -10 points would not hold water in a court of law. Bloody FL - bunch of ******s!!
Liquidshokk Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 King rufus in chandlers ford at 7-7:30!! Il be there trying to forget about this! Can it not be nearer West End??? I think the taxi fare would finish me off!!
Matthew Le God Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 My personal belief is that in order to get your golden share back you will need to accept a further points deduction as the club tried to circumvent the rules ala Leeds. The holding company was set up 8 years before the rules were made! So how is that circumventing them? Can't circumvent something that at the time doesn't exist or even considered to ever exist in the future.
derry Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4448957.Saints_takeover_hits_problems/ It looks like it is going through and the Pinnacle group's lawyers have set up the club as independent and never in administration, from SLH shortly to be wound up. The league have a big problem as their rules don't cover them.
WheresRory Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Mawhinney is a prize front-bottom. Arrogant, smirking, nasty little pigmy. Agreed but what I don't understand is why it's come to this? The 10pt penalty has been known about for ages. Releasing statements via SSN saying this is the problem makes the situation seem desperate and a bit amateur. Surely Pinnacle wouldn't have got this far on the assumption that they'd be able to overturn the FL's decision? As an asside a lot of people think that the Courts could overturn the 10pts. I was under the impression that the League had made itself above such annoiances as the law and anyone who wanted to participate in their competition did so on that understanding.
1976_Child Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 ahhhh the saga continues. Nothing is EVER simple with SFC is it? I mean, most clubs just go up for sale, some rich fat bloke waddles up to the current owner with a suitcase of folding and collects the keys. Not with SFC. No we just HAVE to be bloody different don't we! Screw waiting around. I'm off down the pub to work on my liver disease. They have SSN there so I won't miss a thing. Then again, if I was in a sensory deprivation chamber on the dark side of the moon I wouldn't miss a thing either.
SW11_Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 It is now pretty obvious that the stumbling block to the takeover is THE FOOTBALL LEAGUE ....... they are absolutely determined to get their "Pound Of Flesh", ie, the Ten Point penalty Looks like they are bloody minded enough to let a Takeover Fail for their own selfish "saving of face" PITIFUL .... THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED Let's hope we get the opportunity to host Lord Mawhinney - or see him at the play-offs - to tell him what we really think of him and his 'make it up as you go along' rules...
spain saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 I don't think that we should get the ten point deduction! However I think we should take it and deal with it now! If we do go to court against the FL, even if we win I am sure the FL will get their own back on us in time. They are not going to lay down and take it, There will be repercussions in the future I'm sure!
derry Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 That's very interesting, but on that basis I cannot see the FL are on dodgy ground. The nub of the 10 point deduction is because the club could no longer effectively pay their bills. If you were to take the FL rules as a basis for trade between companies I could understand, but this is for the equitable running of a sporting body. We are no different to any other club that has gone into administration but for the exception of name only, on that basis we deserve the 10 point deduction. I really doubt the courts would rule against a sporting body for taking such action when we are as guilty as sin, but not in name. I could fully understanding the club having a very strong case if the FL informed us we would suffer no deduction for SLH going into administration prior to the deadline. The rules of a sporting body such as the FL are based upon the members having a fair and level playing field. I cannot see a court interfering in those issues when they have been doing excatly that. It could be a far different case if we were innocent! One thing missing here is that the creditors gave the club time to pay, and the agreed debts will be paid. The club, whatever the league try to say, traded legally and never went into administration. The lawyers have dissected the league's rules and have come to the conclusion that the league is wrong.
SaintBobby Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 My (optimistic) analysis is that Pinnacle, Mark Fry and SFC are on solid ground here. (This is partly based on the view that the FL are a total shower, so in any dispute are probably in the wrong) The football club has continued to trade - has met its bills etc. SLH is now being liquidated and SFC will continue, this drives a coach and horses through the League's case that SFC are SLH are basically indivisible. I can't see how the League can object to a division of SLH's assets. How can they insist that if you want to buy the football club, you have to buy Jackson's Farm too?
lee_saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 They didn't release a statement on SSN, it was down to what 'Sky believed' is the hold up.
Swansea_Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Emergency meeting with the football league monday afternoon, i guess no decision until then
CWD Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Wow. I just got in from my last A-level exam having done NO work this morning coz i was on here the whole time! So not only have i done terribly - i also come out to find that NOTHING HAS HAPPENED honestly im just starting to feel like this club is getting beyond a joke, yet another false dawn Right im off to get completely smashed
Glasgow_Saint Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 SSN "deal now in serious jeopardy!" Club now at big risk. Club to speak to other interested parties.... sh1t!
Matthew Le God Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Emergency meeting with the football league monday afternoon, i guess no decision until then Source?
SaintBobby Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 SSN: exclusivity period expired at 5pm. Other bidders can now enter the fray. The bid is in serious jeopardy. FL meets on Monday afternoon, emergency meeting, to resolve the matter. Pinnacle say "extremely frustrated, some legal matters outstanding - not least the FL's position on SLH and SFC." As it stands, MLT may not come to the club at all. Fry will talk with Pinnacle and other bidders over the weekend.
70's Mike Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 They didn't release a statement on SSN, it was down to what 'Sky believed' is the hold up. very true there, as far as i know, been no official statement
Thedelldays Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 what a load of crap i cannot believe that over the last 21 days it has not been tied up amatures IMO
stevegrant Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 As an asside a lot of people think that the Courts could overturn the 10pts. I was under the impression that the League had made itself above such annoiances as the law and anyone who wanted to participate in their competition did so on that understanding. That's pretty much it - the main route for appeal (over and above the FL's own appeal system) would be via the Court of Arbitration for Sport, but it could take a year before we got a case heard there, by which time we might have a hypothetical situation where we've finished more than 10 points off automatic promotion but still got into the play-offs, so the 10 points wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. I'd rather they concentrated on just getting the deal signed and sealed, and they can get solicitors to look into the appeal later.
WheresRory Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 They didn't release a statement on SSN, it was down to what 'Sky believed' is the hold up. In fairness the reporter read out a statement that his source close to the group had provided him with. If you think the source didn't know it was going to be read out I would suggest you are wrong! Bit of a tangent from the real issue anyway.
70's Mike Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 That's pretty much it - the main route for appeal (over and above the FL's own appeal system) would be via the Court of Arbitration for Sport, but it could take a year before we got a case heard there, by which time we might have a hypothetical situation where we've finished more than 10 points off automatic promotion but still got into the play-offs, so the 10 points wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. I'd rather they concentrated on just getting the deal signed and sealed, and they can get solicitors to look into the appeal later. Steve surely the issue is that the FL will not sanction the deal in its present format, so even if it is signed they would not release the "golden share"
derry Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Sooner rather than later somebody is going to take one of the football authorities to court over a dispute. If there is a full blown legal dissection of companies being denied the right to sue the ruling bodies, it could be, that once challenged the league's rules could be held to be illegal in law. It very nearly happened over the Tevez affair and it could happen here.
1976_Child Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 STUFF THE 10 POINTS! NO ONE GIVES A SH!T. this just looks like a load of willy-waving to me. If the ****ing FL are so determined that we should take the points deduction then so be it. JUST SIGN THE FRIGGING DEAL
CWD Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 ssn: Exclusivity period expired at 5pm. Other bidders can now enter the fray. The bid is in serious jeopardy. Fl meets on monday afternoon, emergency meeting, to resolve the matter. Pinnacle say "extremely frustrated, some legal matters outstanding - not least the fl's position on slh and sfc." as it stands, mlt may not come to the club at all. Fry will talk with pinnacle and other bidders over the weekend. oh sh1t
saints_is_the_south Posted 19 June, 2009 Author Posted 19 June, 2009 Meridian: Pinnacle say despite several requests to the FL they won't clarify the difference between SLH & SFC. They say exsclusivity period doesn't end til midnight.
Channon's Sideburns Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Oh FFS... This is going to end badly - we're going to end up seeing old faces again...I hope not...but this is exactly what I feared would happen...
stanthemanfairoak Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 [Mawhinney is a prize front-bottom. Arrogant, smirking, nasty little pigmy a f**kin TORY:mad::mad::mad:]
Tony Lynam Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Dear All I know many of you are sitting tight eagerly expecting some news, so I'm taking 2 minutes out to make you aware of some issues that we are trying to resolve to complete our takeover. Please respect the fact that I cannot go into the finer details of some of the legal issues - myself, colleagues and clients are bound by a non disclosure agreement in respect of the sensitive details, and this will be adhered to at all times. You may be aware that a brief announcement was made earlier this afternoon confirming that, despite our continued efforts, there are some outstanding issues to resolve prior to us being in a position to completing our takeover. There are to my mind 2 legal issues - questions which need to be answered. These I am sure will be put to bed without delay. A further remaining issue is that of the Football Leagues position over our license. Again, it would be hoped that this can be confirmed without delay. My colleagues and I, clients and the Administrator have made our position clear to the Football League on the detail of this issue. I cannot go into it now, but it is cricitcal that this is resolved, and in a timely manner. We will continue to work hard with the Administrator to resolve this, as this is in my view the final piece of the jigsaw. My hope is that all outstanding issues will be resolved without undue delay, as we are itching to get on with the important job of rebuilding this great Club - both for ourselves, the supports, and the wider community. I hope the next announcement that we can make will be to introduce your new owner and Board, and our opportunity to set out our vision for the future. Best wishes to you all Tony Lynam
SaintRobbie Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Chaps - chill. MLT and Pinnacle WILL own this club next week. Brinkmanship and demonising the FL aside, 10 points deduction is not going to stop them from taking over FFS! Their motives are driven by far greater considerations than 3 wins and a draw next season. Frankly if they are being fickle over a 10 points deduction would we really want them to take over? Come on... it's brinkmanship that provide: a. An excuse to galvanise the fans support. b. An excuse for KK if he fails to promote us immediately (which frankly with the team of kids left from Lowe is unlikely anyway unless he has serious cash to spend). It'll be OK. If Pinnacle and MLT want this enough they'll work around it, if they dont...then do we want them?...(probably! Feel good factor alone is worth the 10 points next season!!)...but hey... there are other buyers circling.
SaintBobby Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 That's pretty much it - the main route for appeal (over and above the FL's own appeal system) would be via the Court of Arbitration for Sport, but it could take a year before we got a case heard there, by which time we might have a hypothetical situation where we've finished more than 10 points off automatic promotion but still got into the play-offs, so the 10 points wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. I'd rather they concentrated on just getting the deal signed and sealed, and they can get solicitors to look into the appeal later. If only it were that simple. What seems to be at stake is that the way the takeover happens will have a substantial evidential impact on any appeal over the points penalty. The two matters can't be easily divorced. FWIW, I think we deserve the ten point penalty, but should still fight it. If the legal advice is that the FL are on shaky ground, then sock it to the FL. It's naked self-interest, but so what? We're not here to be fair, but to fight for our interests.
RedFear Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Steve surely the issue is that the FL will not sanction the deal in its present format, so even if it is signed they would not release the "golden share" i agree. sounds to me like the league have said, we will only give consent to this deal if the 10 pts stay and the group wont accept that simple but fundamental problem
sotonjoe Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Dear All I know many of you are sitting tight eagerly expecting some news, so I'm taking 2 minutes out to make you aware of some issues that we are trying to resolve to complete our takeover. Please respect the fact that I cannot go into the finer details of some of the legal issues - myself, colleagues and clients are bound by a non disclosure agreement in respect of the sensitive details, and this will be adhered to at all times. You may be aware that a brief announcement was made earlier this afternoon confirming that, despite our continued efforts, there are some outstanding issues to resolve prior to us being in a position to completing our takeover. There are to my mind 2 legal issues - questions which need to be answered. These I am sure will be put to bed without delay. A further remaining issue is that of the Football Leagues position over our license. Again, it would be hoped that this can be confirmed without delay. My colleagues and I, clients and the Administrator have made our position clear to the Football League on the detail of this issue. I cannot go into it now, but it is cricitcal that this is resolved, and in a timely manner. We will continue to work hard with the Administrator to resolve this, as this is in my view the final piece of the jigsaw. My hope is that all outstanding issues will be resolved without undue delay, as we are itching to get on with the important job of rebuilding this great Club - both for ourselves, the supports, and the wider community. I hope the next announcement that we can make will be to introduce your new owner and Board, and our opportunity to set out our vision for the future. Best wishes to you all Tony Lynam has everyone missed this?
70's Mike Posted 19 June, 2009 Posted 19 June, 2009 Dear All I know many of you are sitting tight eagerly expecting some news, so I'm taking 2 minutes out to make you aware of some issues that we are trying to resolve to complete our takeover. Please respect the fact that I cannot go into the finer details of some of the legal issues - myself, colleagues and clients are bound by a non disclosure agreement in respect of the sensitive details, and this will be adhered to at all times. You may be aware that a brief announcement was made earlier this afternoon confirming that, despite our continued efforts, there are some outstanding issues to resolve prior to us being in a position to completing our takeover. There are to my mind 2 legal issues - questions which need to be answered. These I am sure will be put to bed without delay. A further remaining issue is that of the Football Leagues position over our license. Again, it would be hoped that this can be confirmed without delay. My colleagues and I, clients and the Administrator have made our position clear to the Football League on the detail of this issue. I cannot go into it now, but it is cricitcal that this is resolved, and in a timely manner. We will continue to work hard with the Administrator to resolve this, as this is in my view the final piece of the jigsaw. My hope is that all outstanding issues will be resolved without undue delay, as we are itching to get on with the important job of rebuilding this great Club - both for ourselves, the supports, and the wider community. I hope the next announcement that we can make will be to introduce your new owner and Board, and our opportunity to set out our vision for the future. Best wishes to you all Tony Lynam thank you
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