The Ashes... YOUR 17

[Crab Lungs]

Who would it be? More importantly, who deserves to be in the eleven?

 

For me...

 

Cook

Strauss

Bopara

Pietersen

Collingwood

Bell

Flintoff

Bresnan

Prior

Foster

Swann

Panesar

Broad

Onions

Anderson

Siebottom

Harmison

 

 

I think I picked Flintoff and Panesar purely for sentimental reasons though, sadly. Panesar has been woeful this season and Flintoff is practically a crock, yet The Ashes can do funny things to players. However, I just cannot see Monty being in the first eleven, certainly not in mine - but in the preliminary squad nonetheless.

 

As for a first test 11, I have an idea, although this is very much open to change!!!

 

Strauss

Cook

Bopara

KP

Bell

Collingwood

Prior

Broad

Swann

Sidebottom

Anderson

 

No Freddy, just yet... leave him out and get him kicking his heels first methinks... although, not kicking too hard, he'll probably do some damage to himself :-(

[Lets B Avenue]

Cant see Bell getting in. Think they will go with 5 bowlers and as the 1st match is at Cardiff, there will be 2 spinners. Monty's done bug ger all this season, so wouldn't be surprised to see Rashid get a game. He didn't disgrace himself in the 20/20.

[bungle]

As far as I'm aware, the home team just picks a squad for each test of 13 players. We don't have to worry about having a 17.

[chrisobee]

I think Flintoff is the key as if fit he can bat at 7 with Collingwood and Prior moving up one place in the order and hence there will no place at 5 for Bell. This gives a much better balance to the team and even if Rashid came in, probably for Sidebottom, we'd still have 3 front line seam bowlers. For the most part though the team almost picks itself since very few players have enhanced their claims albeit Onions did well v the West Indies.

[Marsdinho]

My starting XI

 

Cook

Strauss

KP

Bopara

Shah

Flintoff

Foster

Broad

Swann

Anderson

Onions

[Hatch]

My starting XI

 

Cook

Strauss

KP

Bopara

Shah

Flintoff

Foster

Broad

Swann

Anderson

Onions

 

Pretty much the same as me. Although it is tough choice between Shah/Colly/Bell.

[Marsdinho]

Pretty much the same as me. Although it is tough choice between Shah/Colly/Bell.

 

About 2 years ago, Collingwood would have been my 1st name down on the team sheet, but he has f*cked me off the last few weeks with his captaincy in the Twenty20 and his loss of batting form.

 

I think he needs a "rest" from the International stage and get some county cricket under his belt again.

 

Bell would be in my Ashes squad though, as he looks hungry and in quite good form at the moment.

[Iowsaintsfan]

Pretty much the same as me. Although it is tough choice between Shah/Colly/Bell.

 

Id still have colly out of those three, shah and bell i just dont rate, least colly tends to make up for any poor batting with decent fielding

[Ludwig]

**** Cook, ******.

[chrisobee]

**** Cook' date=' ******.[/quote']

 

What about Cook ? He's had a few problems with his technique but is generally agreed to be a very resilient player and England need that sort of player especially v the Aussies. His Test average of 45.02 is certainly good enough and compares favourably with Bell ( under 41) and Shah( just under 42) albeit Shah is a player I like and think he has not had a real chance to prove himself. Cook is only 24 and potentially his best is still to come.

[NI76]

I think 10 places are certs for the first test (assuming everyone is fit) and those are as follows:

 

Strauss

Cook

Bopara

Pietersen

Collingwood

Prior

Flintoff

Broad

Swann

Anderson.

 

For the first test, I'd expect the final place to be between Panesar and Rashid as it's apparently a spinners paradise but for the other tests I'd expect it to be between Sidebottom and Onions.

 

If we perform poorly early on, then I think Collingwood and Prior may come under pressure if they don't score runs.

 

I'm more intrigued as to the Aussies line-up, much harder to predict. Would be interested to hear some Aussie viewpoints but I'd assume the following are certs for the first test (assuming again that all are fit):

 

Hughes

Katich

Ponting

Clarke

M Hussey

Haddin

Johnson

Lee

Clark

 

I guess the all rounders slot is up for grabs but would think Macdonald is in pole position followed by Watson and then North.

 

The last bowling slot I presume would be Siddle?

 

Should be a good close series, I can't wait.

[Ludwig]

What about Cook ? He's had a few problems with his technique but is generally agreed to be a very resilient player and England need that sort of player especially v the Aussies. His Test average of 45.02 is certainly good enough and compares favourably with Bell ( under 41) and Shah( just under 42) albeit Shah is a player I like and think he has not had a real chance to prove himself. Cook is only 24 and potentially his best is still to come.

 

I've been saying he's **** for years, I can't suddenly stop.

[chrisobee]

I've been saying he's **** for years' date=' I can't suddenly stop.[/quote']

 

Why, are you suffering from some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder, perhaps the same one which compels you to always be a flipping pest

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Cook

Strauss

Bopara

KP

Collingwood

Flintoff

Prior

Broad

Swann

Onions

Anderson

 

back up

 

Harmison (if he can start bowling at top speed?)

Sidebottom

Panesar

Rashid

Key

Foster

[georgeismyname]

My 17:

Cook, Bell, Strauss, Pietersen, Bopara, Shah, Collingwood, Flintoff, Onions, Prior, Anderson, Sidebottom, Broad, Swann, Rashid, Ambrose, Harmison.

 

Starting XI:

 

Strauss *,

Cook,

Bopara,

Pietersen,

Collingwood,

Prior +,

Broad,

Swann,

Sidebottom,

Onions,

Anderson.

 

Strong bowling lineup with batting down to Swann.

[L1Minus10]

1 Strauss

2 Cook

3 Bopara

4 KP

5 Collingwood

6 Prior

7 Flintoff

8 Broad

9 Swann

10 Onions

11 Anderson

--------------

12 Panesar

13 Shah

14 Foster

15 Sidebottom

 

Players nowhere near it: Bell, Vaughan, Harmison,

[DS]

I've been saying he's **** for years' date=' I can't suddenly stop.[/quote']

 

Go on 'Orn, its time to admit you may have been wrong. Can you honestly think of a current English player you'd rather have opening the batting?

 

Cook

Strauss

KP

Bopara

Collingwood

Prior

Flintoff

Broad

Swann

Onions

Anderson

 

Very close call between Onions and Sidebottom though.

 

Colly may not be ideal but he's a better choice than Shah or Bell.

[JustMike]

1 Strauss

2 Cook

3 Bopara

4 KP

5 Collingwood

6 Prior

7 Flintoff

8 Broad

9 Swann

10 Onions

11 Anderson

--------------

12 Panesar

13 Shah

14 Foster

15 Sidebottom

 

Players nowhere near it: Bell, Vaughan, Harmison,

 

agree with that

[Seany S]

Harmison is in excellent form at the moment - thirty wickets in his last six games - and along with Onions has been bowling superbly for Durham. If they can both maintain their form, the sight of those two big monsters throwing it down, with Flintoff used sparingly and Anderson there to swing it, I reckon that is an excellent pace attack for the Ashes right there. Sidebottom has not let England down but I don't think you can underestimate a Harmy firing on all cylinders.

 

Personally I think Rashid needs to be given an opportunity at some point during the Ashes. Swann has cemented himself as the numero uno spinner, but Panesar has bowled poorly and seems to be suffering from burn out and a lack of variation in his delivery. We need Mushtaq to work hard with him and recapture some of the form that got him where he is today. I also think Broad needs a rest, the pressure was clearly showing as hebowled at the death in the recent 20/20 games; he is undoubtedly a talent but I think I would drop him in favour of a fully fit Harmison and the impressive Onions.

 

In terms of the batting lineup, I would be very disappointed if Vaughan is called up to the detriment of another younger, hungrier batsman. I would also like to see Collingwood dropped, I was distinctly unimpressed by his 20/20 campaign and do not think he is currently in the side on merit. My starting XI:

 

Strauss

Cook

Bopara

KP

Bell

Prior

Flintoff

Swann

Harmison

Anderson

Onions

[JustMike]

I've been saying he's **** for years' date=' I can't suddenly stop.[/quote']

 

but he's not ****

[Um Bongo]

Strauss

Anderson

Broad

Cook

Flintoff

Pieterson

Prior

Bell

Onions

Rashid

Bopara

Shah

Bresnan

Collingwood

Panesar

Sidebottom

Swann

 

Is the squad for the Ashes.

[stevegrant]

Can't really argue with that, although still far from convinced about Shah, and Panesar's form is very worrying - 6 wickets at an average of nearly 87!

 

Apparently Bell's going to captain the Lions team in a warmup game against the Aussies at Worcester (assuming it's not flooded).

 

Clearly most of the first XI picks itself:

 

Strauss

Cook

Bopara

Pietersen

Collingwood

Prior

Flintoff

Broad

Swann

Anderson

 

plus one from Onions, Rashid, Panesar, Bresnan and Sidebottom. I would guess it would be either Panesar or Rashid at Cardiff because it's a ridiculous turning wicket, but Onions and Sidebottom will come into the equation for the other games.

 

While Bell's been in decent form for Warwickshire, I still don't see him getting in ahead of Bopara any time soon. His chance might come if Flintoff gets injured again.

[saint_stevo]

Prior as wicket keeper worries me

[Barfy]

I've been saying he's **** for years' date=' I can't suddenly stop.[/quote']

 

Oh how I've missed your love of Cook

 

As far as the team goes, I'd like to see us start with the 4 front line bowlers, the team being:

Cook, Strauss, Bopara, KP, Collingwood, Bell, Prior, Broad, Swann, Rashid*, Anderson

 

*Who can apparently bat. Play him at Cardiff, then maybe swap him out for Onions.

 

What I suspect will happen though is that we'll play 5 bowlers:

Cook, Strauss, Bopara, KP, Collingwood, Prior, Broad, Swann, Rashid, Onions, Anderson

 

With Rashid being swapped out for the not-so-exciting Sidebottom.

 

If Collingwood is patently out of form, then swap him for Bell or Shah, though Shah always looks too nervous at the crease, and doesn't particularly instill confidence!

 

As far as Flintoff goes, I really don't think he should be in the first XI unless he can show he is back to full fitness

[Hatch]

Foster is unlucky not to be there.

[OldNick]

the nonsense of playing a batsman wickie does my head in. A piece of magic by a keeper changes games. prior is never likely to do that and he is hardly a consistant bat and not international standard IMO. Foster may not be a great bat but say he scores 15 runs against a 30-40 that prior gets so a negative of perhaps 15-25 an innings (an inexact science of course) but snaffles up Ponting then he is well in credit.

To play Prior is the same stupid English thinking that had Geoff Thomas picked ahead of MLT all those years ago.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

the nonsense of playing a batsman wickie does my head in. A piece of magic by a keeper changes games. prior is never likely to do that and he is hardly a consistant bat and not international standard IMO. Foster may not be a great bat but say he scores 15 runs against a 30-40 that prior gets so a negative of perhaps 15-25 an innings (an inexact science of course) but snaffles up Ponting then he is well in credit.

To play Prior is the same stupid English thinking that had Geoff Thomas picked ahead of MLT all those years ago.

 

To be fair to Prior he has scored 1065 test runs from 18 matches at an average of 48.40.

Foster is a good wicket keeper which he showed in the 20/20 world cup but his lack of runs and inablity to hit boundaries at the end of innings cost England IMO.

[the stain]

Not sure what the beef is with Collingwood. His Test form has been fine, he's stalwart in the middle of England's order and has got us out of the poop on countless occasions.

 

He has, granted, been under-whelming as T20 captain, but that's an almost entirely different discipline. In fact he wouldn't even be in my T20 side, as he's neither a free scoring batsman or a dot-ball bowler. But he's got so many qualities as a Test player I'm frankly staggered that anyone would want him dropped.

 

Also does no-one else think that rushing Flintoff straight back into the starting XI might be a short-sighted decision?

[OldNick]

To be fair to Prior he has scored 1065 test runs from 18 matches at an average of 48.40.

Foster is a good wicket keeper which he showed in the 20/20 world cup but his lack of runs and inablity to hit boundaries at the end of innings cost England IMO.

Picking Prior over a specialist wickie is sending the message that our batters are not good enough. I go back to my belief that Foster showed in his stumpings against Idia and West Indies from nothing could win games.That is as effective or even more effective than a hit and miss wickie batsman.

[Barfy]

Not sure what the beef is with Collingwood. His Test form has been fine, he's stalwart in the middle of England's order and has got us out of the poop on countless occasions.

 

He has, granted, been under-whelming as T20 captain, but that's an almost entirely different discipline. In fact he wouldn't even be in my T20 side, as he's neither a free scoring batsman or a dot-ball bowler. But he's got so many qualities as a Test player I'm frankly staggered that anyone would want him dropped.

 

Also does no-one else think that rushing Flintoff straight back into the starting XI might be a short-sighted decision?

 

There's a number of reasons that I don't think Flintoff should be a dead cert for the starting XI:

 

1) If he isn't fully fit & breaks down in the middle of a test, we're screwed, and

2) possibly more importantly, he hasn't actually played that well since 2005, especially with the bat (rather important for an all-rounder).

 

tbh Stuart Broad's recent performances make me think he could almost fill an all-rounder spot in the team! As long as he doesn't lose focus on his bowling.

[stevegrant]

Picking Prior over a specialist wickie is sending the message that our batters are not good enough. I go back to my belief that Foster showed in his stumpings against Idia and West Indies from nothing could win games.That is as effective or even more effective than a hit and miss wickie batsman.

Two points:

 

1. To be fair, an average of nearly 50 in 28 Test innings isn't particularly "hit and miss", IMO.

 

2. I would normally agree that as the wicket-keeper is such a specialist position, you should get your best keeper in there and not worry about his batting. However, we have the slight issue that is Andrew Flintoff. Until the other day when he hit 54 against Hampshire, he'd done absolutely nothing with the bat for a very long time, so it's difficult to count on him as a batsman. Similarly, while Stuart Broad looks very promising and will probably become a bona-fide all-rounder in years to come, he's still pretty raw as a batsman and again can't be counted upon to score big runs consistently.

 

With Flintoff in the side, if he has a bad run, we're effectively going in with only 6 batsmen. Bring Foster into the picture ahead of Prior and we're then down to 5, which is just a recipe for disaster.

 

If Flintoff a) gets his form back with the bat, or b) gets injured again, it might be worth looking at bringing Foster in and possibly using Prior just as a batsman, or bringing someone else in. However, Prior's figures stack up against any other English batsman, and he's generally been batting at 6 and 7 rather than at the top of the innings, so dropping him wouldn't be anywhere near my thoughts at the moment.

[OldNick]

Two points:

 

1. To be fair, an average of nearly 50 in 28 Test innings isn't particularly "hit and miss", IMO.

 

2. I would normally agree that as the wicket-keeper is such a specialist position, you should get your best keeper in there and not worry about his batting. However, we have the slight issue that is Andrew Flintoff. Until the other day when he hit 54 against Hampshire, he'd done absolutely nothing with the bat for a very long time, so it's difficult to count on him as a batsman. Similarly, while Stuart Broad looks very promising and will probably become a bona-fide all-rounder in years to come, he's still pretty raw as a batsman and again can't be counted upon to score big runs consistently.

 

With Flintoff in the side, if he has a bad run, we're effectively going in with only 6 batsmen. Bring Foster into the picture ahead of Prior and we're then down to 5, which is just a recipe for disaster.

 

If Flintoff a) gets his form back with the bat, or b) gets injured again, it might be worth looking at bringing Foster in and possibly using Prior just as a batsman, or bringing someone else in. However, Prior's figures stack up against any other English batsman, and he's generally been batting at 6 and 7 rather than at the top of the innings, so dropping him wouldn't be anywhere near my thoughts at the moment.

Who has Prior got the runs against? Were they match winning games or when we were knocvking up 500 + against the Windies or Bangladesh? I do recall him having the worst set of wickie figures ever in test history and missing some big catches and stumpings.If he is good enough to bat put him in for that but to risk having a half baked wicket keeper in seems as bad as playing an out of form all rounder

[NI76]

There's a number of reasons that I don't think Flintoff should be a dead cert for the starting XI:

 

1) If he isn't fully fit & breaks down in the middle of a test, we're screwed, and

2) possibly more importantly, he hasn't actually played that well since 2005, especially with the bat (rather important for an all-rounder).

 

There's only one reason why I think Flintoff should be a dead cert if fit and that is that I think he is far and away our best bowler, as far ahead of the rest as KP is of the batters.

 

I wouldn't really care if he bats at 7 or even 8 behind Broad, his runs are just a bonus. His bowling is world class.

 

It looks like the warm up team to play Warks will be the 1st test team unless Monty has a mare in that game.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

There's a number of reasons that I don't think Flintoff should be a dead cert for the starting XI:

 

1) If he isn't fully fit & breaks down in the middle of a test, we're screwed, and

2) possibly more importantly, he hasn't actually played that well since 2005, especially with the bat (rather important for an all-rounder).

 

There's only one reason why I think Flintoff should be a dead cert if fit and that is that I think he is far and away our best bowler, as far ahead of the rest as KP is of the batters.

 

I wouldn't really care if he bats at 7 or even 8 behind Broad, his runs are just a bonus. His bowling is world class.

 

It looks like the warm up team to play Warks will be the 1st test team unless Monty has a mare in that game.

 

Spot on there. Don't understand why people question Flintoff's place in the team. He is the best bowler in the team and has proved this on numerous occassions. England need him playing at 6 or 7 with Prior and to play 5 bowlers in order to win back the Ashes.

[Crab Lungs]

No Foster in the 16? Shocking, really.

 

Panesar to possibly start at Sophia Gardens? Worrying... Like Steve said, he can only bowl one way, there is adaptation to the conditions... Hmmmm.....

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Who has Prior got the runs against? Were they match winning games or when we were knocvking up 500 + against the Windies or Bangladesh? I do recall him having the worst set of wickie figures ever in test history and missing some big catches and stumpings.If he is good enough to bat put him in for that but to risk having a half baked wicket keeper in seems as bad as playing an out of form all rounder

 

Innings by innings list Runs Mins BF 4s 6s SR Pos Dismissal Inns Opposition Ground Start Date

131* 257 198 12 0 66.16 6 not out 1 v West Indies Port of Spain 6 Mar 2009 Test # 1914

126* 146 128 19 0 98.43 7 not out 1 v West Indies Lord's 17 May 2007 Test # 1831

79 189 130 9 0 60.76 7 caught 1 v Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC) 9 Dec 2007 Test # 1853

75 156 99 9 0 75.75 7 bowled 1 v West Indies Leeds 25 May 2007 Test # 1834

64 186 109 7 0 58.71 7 caught 1 v West Indies Kingston 4 Feb 2009 Test # 1906

63 153 147 8 0 42.85 8 bowled 4 v Sri Lanka Kandy 1 Dec 2007 Test # 1851

63 81 83 7 0 75.90 7 caught 1 v West Indies Chester-le-Street 14 May 2009 Test # 1920

62 156 107 4 2 57.94 8 caught 2 v West Indies Chester-le-Street 15 Jun 2007 Test # 1836

61 74 49 8 0 124.48 6 bowled 3 v West Indies Port of Spain 6 Mar 2009 Test # 1914

53* 146 102 1 0 51.96 8 not out 1 v India Chennai 11 Dec 2008 Test # 1898

42 109 61 5 0 68.85 7 caught 3 v India Lord's 19 Jul 2007 Test # 1840

42 78 56 8 0 75.00 6 caught 1 v West Indies Lord's 6 May 2009 Test # 1919

40 116 66 7 0 60.60 7 caught 1 v West Indies Manchester 7 Jun 2007 Test # 1835

39 84 61 6 0 63.93 8 caught 1 v West Indies St John's 15 Feb 2009 Test # 1908

33 85 56 2 0 58.92 7 caught 3 v India Chennai 11 Dec 2008 Test # 1898

21 19 9 2 2 233.33 7 caught 3 v West Indies Lord's 17 May 2007 Test # 1831

19* 108 100 2 0 19.00 7 not out 3 v Sri Lanka Galle 18 Dec 2007 Test # 1854

15* 15 15 1 1 100.00 7 not out 3 v West Indies St John's 15 Feb 2009 Test # 1908

12* 92 64 1 0 18.75 7 not out 4 v India The Oval 9 Aug 2007 Test # 1842

11 45 31 2 0 35.48 7 caught 1 v India Nottingham 27 Jul 2007 Test # 1841

7 40 24 1 0 29.16 7 bowled 3 v India Nottingham 27 Jul 2007 Test # 1841

4 8 6 1 0 66.66 7 bowled 2 v Sri Lanka Galle 18 Dec 2007 Test # 1854

2 7 8 0 0 25.00 8 caught 2 v India Mohali 19 Dec 2008 Test # 1901

1 6 7 0 0 14.28 8 lbw 1 v India Lord's 19 Jul 2007 Test # 1840

0 1 1 0 0 0.00 7 caught 3 v West Indies Manchester 7 Jun 2007 Test # 1835

0 38 15 0 0 0.00 8 caught 2 v India The Oval 9 Aug 2007 Test # 1842

0 13 6 0 0 0.00 7 caught 2 v Sri Lanka Kandy 1 Dec 2007 Test # 1851

0 2 4 0 0 0.00 7 bowled 3 v West Indies Kingston 4 Feb 2009 Test # 1906

DNB - - - - - - - 4 v West Indies Chester-le-Street 15 Jun 2007 Test # 1836

DNB - - - - - - - 3 v Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC) 9 Dec 2007 Test # 1853

DNB - - - - - - - 4 v India Mohali 19 Dec 2008 Test # 1901

DNB - - - - - - - 1 v West Indies North Sound 13 Feb 2009 Test # 1907

DNB - - - - - - - 4 v West Indies Lord's 6 May 2009 Test # 1919

Change batting view

[OldNick]

Innings by innings list Runs Mins BF 4s 6s SR Pos Dismissal Inns Opposition Ground Start Date

131* 257 198 12 0 66.16 6 not out 1 v West Indies Port of Spain 6 Mar 2009 Test # 1914

126* 146 128 19 0 98.43 7 not out 1 v West Indies Lord's 17 May 2007 Test # 1831

79 189 130 9 0 60.76 7 caught 1 v Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC) 9 Dec 2007 Test # 1853

75 156 99 9 0 75.75 7 bowled 1 v West Indies Leeds 25 May 2007 Test # 1834

64 186 109 7 0 58.71 7 caught 1 v West Indies Kingston 4 Feb 2009 Test # 1906

63 153 147 8 0 42.85 8 bowled 4 v Sri Lanka Kandy 1 Dec 2007 Test # 1851

63 81 83 7 0 75.90 7 caught 1 v West Indies Chester-le-Street 14 May 2009 Test # 1920

62 156 107 4 2 57.94 8 caught 2 v West Indies Chester-le-Street 15 Jun 2007 Test # 1836

61 74 49 8 0 124.48 6 bowled 3 v West Indies Port of Spain 6 Mar 2009 Test # 1914

53* 146 102 1 0 51.96 8 not out 1 v India Chennai 11 Dec 2008 Test # 1898

42 109 61 5 0 68.85 7 caught 3 v India Lord's 19 Jul 2007 Test # 1840

42 78 56 8 0 75.00 6 caught 1 v West Indies Lord's 6 May 2009 Test # 1919

40 116 66 7 0 60.60 7 caught 1 v West Indies Manchester 7 Jun 2007 Test # 1835

39 84 61 6 0 63.93 8 caught 1 v West Indies St John's 15 Feb 2009 Test # 1908

33 85 56 2 0 58.92 7 caught 3 v India Chennai 11 Dec 2008 Test # 1898

21 19 9 2 2 233.33 7 caught 3 v West Indies Lord's 17 May 2007 Test # 1831

19* 108 100 2 0 19.00 7 not out 3 v Sri Lanka Galle 18 Dec 2007 Test # 1854

15* 15 15 1 1 100.00 7 not out 3 v West Indies St John's 15 Feb 2009 Test # 1908

12* 92 64 1 0 18.75 7 not out 4 v India The Oval 9 Aug 2007 Test # 1842

11 45 31 2 0 35.48 7 caught 1 v India Nottingham 27 Jul 2007 Test # 1841

7 40 24 1 0 29.16 7 bowled 3 v India Nottingham 27 Jul 2007 Test # 1841

4 8 6 1 0 66.66 7 bowled 2 v Sri Lanka Galle 18 Dec 2007 Test # 1854

2 7 8 0 0 25.00 8 caught 2 v India Mohali 19 Dec 2008 Test # 1901

1 6 7 0 0 14.28 8 lbw 1 v India Lord's 19 Jul 2007 Test # 1840

0 1 1 0 0 0.00 7 caught 3 v West Indies Manchester 7 Jun 2007 Test # 1835

0 38 15 0 0 0.00 8 caught 2 v India The Oval 9 Aug 2007 Test # 1842

0 13 6 0 0 0.00 7 caught 2 v Sri Lanka Kandy 1 Dec 2007 Test # 1851

0 2 4 0 0 0.00 7 bowled 3 v West Indies Kingston 4 Feb 2009 Test # 1906

DNB - - - - - - - 4 v West Indies Chester-le-Street 15 Jun 2007 Test # 1836

DNB - - - - - - - 3 v Sri Lanka Colombo (SSC) 9 Dec 2007 Test # 1853

DNB - - - - - - - 4 v India Mohali 19 Dec 2008 Test # 1901

DNB - - - - - - - 1 v West Indies North Sound 13 Feb 2009 Test # 1907

DNB - - - - - - - 4 v West Indies Lord's 6 May 2009 Test # 1919

Change batting view

thanks Andy, that really must have taken time.

Can you see one thing in the list as it reads down? A massive decrease in his runs, take out the first 4 against a poor WI attack and Sri lanka and then you dont have such a great player.I still believe it is a terrible error not having Foster but i hope Im wrong.I dont believe Prior will get many against the Aussies and his 2nd level keeping will cost us more than he gets with the bat.

[The Saturday Boy]

A massive decrease in runs as it lists his runs scored in descending order!

Not in date order From his highest score down to his lowest.

 

His highest score was early this year.

 

If they dropped Prior, they would probably just bring in Steve Davies anyway.

[Scummer]

Can you see one thing in the list as it reads down? A massive decrease in his runs.

 

:smt082:smt082:smt082

 

No way!

[stevegrant]

Here's another way of looking at it:

 

Score range - number of occurrences (not out) [opponents]

 

0-9 - 8 [WI(a) 1, WI(h) 1, SL(a) 2, IND(a) 1, IND(h) 3]

10-19 - 4 (3 not out) [iND(h) 2, WI(a) 1, SL(a) 1]

20-29 - 1 [WI(h) 1]

30-39 - 2 [WI(a) 1, IND(a) 1]

40-49 - 3 [WI(h) 2, IND(h) 1]

50-99 - 8 (1 not out) [iND(a) 1, WI(a) 2, WI(h) 3, SL(a) 2]

100+ - 2 (2 not out) [WI(h) 1, WI(a) 1]

 

Clearly scored heavily against the West Indies, but then we've played a lot of games against them with Prior in the side.

 

Personally, I like the fact that he's scored big runs on the subcontinent, and that 10 of his 28 innings have produced scores of 50 or more. For me, that's an excellent conversion rate regardless of the opposition.

 

Also, it's interesting to note his averages based on his batting position:

 

6 - 3 innings at 117 :shock:

7 - 18 innings at 43.64

8 - 7 innings at 36.67

[the stain]

 

Spot on there. Don't understand why people question Flintoff's place in the team. He is the best bowler in the team and has proved this on numerous occassions. England need him playing at 6 or 7 with Prior and to play 5 bowlers in order to win back the Ashes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not so much questioning Flintoff's place in the team. Just questioning the desire to thrust him straight back into the team, as "England's All Rounder", the very second he's able to run around again.

 

a) it would be sensible, at some point, after one of the succession of serious injuries he's suffered, to allow him to play county cricket for a few months, get used to the rigours of competetive action gradually.

 

b) as someone else alluded to above, maybe some recognition that his form with the bat has been poor for a long time and he isn't necessarily a star all-rounder. He's a world class bowler. Perhaps this would take the pressure off him feeling like he has to make the decisive contribution in all 4 innings of a Test.

 

A fit, in form Flintoff is the first bowler on my team sheet. But how many times has he been rushed back only to break down again.

[stevegrant]

a) it would be sensible, at some point, after one of the succession of serious injuries he's suffered, to allow him to play county cricket for a few months, get used to the rigours of competetive action gradually.

He's played in two County Championship games in the past couple of weeks, and presumably will play Twenty20 this week, so he is at least getting games under his belt. Whether it's enough, I'm not sure.

 

b) as someone else alluded to above, maybe some recognition that his form with the bat has been poor for a long time and he isn't necessarily a star all-rounder. He's a world class bowler. Perhaps this would take the pressure off him feeling like he has to make the decisive contribution in all 4 innings of a Test.

The main person who insists that he's a star all-rounder is Flintoff himself. Until he comes to terms with the fact that he's not a world-beating batsman anymore, the problem will remain.

[mynameisthehulk]

Team for the first test, fitness issues aside will, and should be :-

 

Cook

Strauss

Bopara

KP

Collingwood

Prior

Flintoff

Broad

Swann

Rashid

Anderson

[the stain]

He's played in two County Championship games in the past couple of weeks, and presumably will play Twenty20 this week, so he is at least getting games under his belt. Whether it's enough, I'm not sure.

 

Well it seems to be a case of keeping on doing it the same way and hoping this time it will be alright There's been a sense of rush about his rehab for a couple of months. At one point he was going to ready for the end of the WI ODIs, then the T20, and clearly none of these things were genuine possibilities. There's a feeling that he's going to play as soon as possible, rather than when it's right.

 

The main person who insists that he's a star all-rounder is Flintoff himself. Until he comes to terms with the fact that he's not a world-beating batsman anymore, the problem will remain.

 

I think you're quite probably right, and to my mind it's a point that needs a bit of forcing. For example promoting Prior and Broad up the order ahead of him, making it apparent that he's being selected for the job he can do, not the job he thinks he can.

 

In fact, now I think about it, there's been an unsettling whiff of wishfulness around the England team for a long time, even before the last Ashes in Oz. That feeling of 'wouldn't it be nice if all the old good players could all be fit and good again'. Epitomised by the slow death of Harmison's career, which wasted two years of bedding in a replacement. And even now the idea that the selectors were genuinely considering picking Michael Vaughan, an idea that Brett Lee was falling over himself to talk up, no doubt remembering how disruptive his influence was last time out.

 

I've gone off on a bit of a ramble there, but I think this thing with Freddie is symptomatic of this wishfulness. We want him to be fit, so he will be fit. We want him to be as good with the bat as he briefly promised to be, so we'll keep acting as if he is. Basically we want him to be Botham and the future to be like the past

[stevegrant]

The fact that a lot of people have still been pinning their hopes on a return for Simon Jones probably tells you all you need to know there.

 

I'll be surprised if he returns from his latest injury setback, sadly.

[OldNick]

A massive decrease in runs as it lists his runs scored in descending order!

Not in date order From his highest score down to his lowest.

 

His highest score was early this year.

 

If they dropped Prior, they would probably just bring in Steve Davies anyway.

ooops Lol

[chrisobee]

He's played in two County Championship games in the past couple of weeks, and presumably will play Twenty20 this week, so he is at least getting games under his belt. Whether it's enough, I'm not sure.

 

 

The main person who insists that he's a star all-rounder is Flintoff himself. Until he comes to terms with the fact that he's not a world-beating batsman anymore, the problem will remain.

 

What ? He scored 50 against the mighty Hants only last week

Seriously he's nailed on for his bowling alone and assuming Prior bats 6 which I think he will he is certainly a good player to have coming in at 7.

[mynameisthehulk]

He's played in two County Championship games in the past couple of weeks, and presumably will play Twenty20 this week, so he is at least getting games under his belt. Whether it's enough, I'm not sure.

 

 

The main person who insists that he's a star all-rounder is Flintoff himself. Until he comes to terms with the fact that he's not a world-beating batsman anymore, the problem will remain.

 

What ? He scored 50 against the mighty Hants only last week

Seriously he's nailed on for his bowling alone and assuming Prior bats 6 which I think he will he is certainly a good player to have coming in at 7.

 

I think that in the past Freddy has taken time to find his batting form when returning from injuries, the last few years have been very stop start and this has impacted on his batting. Given a run in the side I think he could score runs regularly again and could be very useful at 7. I can see the merit in perhaps bringing Broad in at number 7 if we are in trouble though as he is less apt to throwing his wicket away.

[chrisobee]

The fact that a lot of people have still been pinning their hopes on a return for Simon Jones probably tells you all you need to know there.

 

I'll be surprised if he returns from his latest injury setback, sadly.

 

He was talking on TV today, is planning to return next year when he'll be 31.If all goes well I hope he can play for a few seasons at least since he has suffered really cruelly with injuries.

Think it unlikely he'll reach the same level but you never know. Good luck to him anyway.