Diabolus Ex Machina

I mean, we had both last year and we still scored the least amount of goals in a season that Ralphs been here (and Che also scored more than him). If the price is £30m+ as West Hams bid would suggest then we'd have to spend that plus whatever it took to replace Adams (minus his fee) just to cover both spots. Seems an awfully big risk when we're 3 days away from the first league game already and no concrete leads on a new striker. I'd rather any of the other forwards go before Che and he can be a bench option if we do sign a better striker to start games (though ideally if we went 2 up front he could play with them). Any idea on what sort of offer? Would we be looking for a permanent deal and if so are we looking the same sort of price range as the West Ham offer? If a loan have Chelsea actually made any noises that they might entertain the idea as recent signs suggest they'd rather keep him for themselves this season. Even if they didn't I imagine other teams would also be interested - I believe Everton and Newcastle have both been linked at points and I did read a suggestion from a Newcastle fan elsewhere suggesting the club would be willing to wait until late in the window to finalise any deal which might leave us with a dilemma if we still haven't signed someone and the window is nearing a close.

Same reason everyone else did? Fitness and getting used to tactics/formations in a real game setting. The pitch may have been that they'll get game time but unless there's something in their contracts stating they must play you'd hope they'd have to show they are worth playing in training/pre-season just like any other player would. Whether they've done that only Ralph would know but I could see squad harmony being affected if they were all given starting opportunities off the bat if other players had trained better for example. We can offer a greater chance at PL football as there isn't as much squad competition in terms of both quality and quantity but that shouldn't be a guarantee of playing time. As for the game itself, am assuming we will try the 5 at the back (or 5 in midfield depending on where you want to classify the wing-backs playing I suppose). I'll go for 3-1 to Spurs - they are the home team and I think it's fair to say have a higher quality squad but it won't be a complete pushover for them. Perhaps if we keep it tight at the back we might come away with something. I just hope he doesn't try playing a high line in defense which will get us torn apart like it did a couple of seasons ago when we lost 5-2 in the second game of the season.

Think top 10 is a bit unrealistic with our current squad tbh unless a lot of teams under perform. Think we're more likely to see a gradual improvement than a big jump in results but i'd just like to see us heading back in the right direction. Mid/High 40's or more for points, try to get under 16 losses and less than 60 goals conceded, reduce points lost from winning positions and when we do go on a poor run show the ability and mentality to break the streak earlier. Basically just have a solid, consistent season we can use to build upon in the future. A deep cup run or two on top of that and i'd call it a reasonable success.

I think there just needs to be some recognition that we have been poor, we have been regressing since his first full season with us and that he has contributed to that regression in some way. Our season under Pellegrino/Hughes is rightly held up as a bit of a disaster and our worst since our Prem return but when you compare it to last season there's really not been much of an improvement at all after 3 1/2 years under Ralph. Season Manager Position Points Wins Draws Losses GF GA GD FA EFL 2017/18 Pellegrino/Hughes 17 36 7 15 16 37 56 -19 SF 2nd Rd 2021/22 Hassenhuttl 15 40 9 13 16 43 67 -24 QF 4th Rd In terms of results - progress over 3 1/2 years could be summed up as turning 2 draws into 2 wins. We've scored more goals but also conceded a lot more We matched our number of losses at 16 and in fact have never got below this number under Ralph (though have gone above it twice with 17 losses in 18/19 and 19 in 20/21) Goals for this season was our lowest under Ralph and in fact our goals per game under Ralph has decreased every season (1.39 in his first non-full season, then 1.34, 1.23 and finally 1.13 last year) Goals against was our second worst since our return to the Prem being only one better than the previous years lowest of 68 conceded Prior to Ralph our most goals conceded since our return was 60 our first season back. Under Ralph we have conceded 60+ every single season Our Goal difference was the worst since our return to the Prem (beating the prior record set the previous year) The 36 points we got in the Pellegrino/Hughes season would have kept us up every season since (so in theory had we got those points up front every season we would have gone the past 4 seasons never being in the relegation zone for example) While not able to bring in many new players per window, a number of first team players (starters or squad players) have been brought in during Ralphs tenure - Djenepo, Adams, KWP, Diallo, Salisu, Walcott, Perraud, Livramento, Lyanco, A.Armstrong. To this point Ralph has not had to sell any player that has been brought into the club under his tenure The only first team starters that have been sold (Højbjerg, Ings, Vestergaard) were going into the last years of their contracts and had to be sold or were at risk of leaving on a free - at no point has a regular starter been sold under Ralph purely to raise funds Those aren't opinions above, they are all backed up by the stats. Some of this will be down to recruitment and funding but I think it also shows that Ralph hasn't made a massive difference either overall (and defensively we are considerably worse). He'll have my support at the start of the season because as a fan that's what I do - support my club. But the club comes before the manager and if there isn't an improvement I think the owners will need to take a serious look at whether Ralph is the man to carry us forward. Hopefully the injection of youth and the new coaching staff will help make the difference, everything will click like during our good runs and we will be looking at a mid-table or above finish.

Seen this a few times from different people, is there a reason we think this focus on youth is part of Ralph's vision? I was under the assumption this was more of a Sports Republic led thing more related to their 'moneyball' approach and looking to sell young players for profit after a couple of seasons than anything Ralph particularly wanted. I'm sure the choice of players will be aimed at matching the style he wants to play but I don't see how any previous seasons transfers wouldn't have also been chosen with this in mind.

Not sure if there's a better thread for this but Swiss Ramble twitter account has a good breakdown of last seasons club performances based on budgets and wages which goes into a lot of detail about who got the most bang for their buck in terms of points/position for money spent on transfers and wages. Worth a look to see how we compare with others currently.

I can’t see much changing to be honest – any team wanting to win a competition/qualify for Europe/ avoid relegation will try and play their strongest team at every available opportunity and if you’ve already brought on your best 3 players to try and gain/protect a lead I’m not sure how much difference an extra 2 will make. I imagine the extra 2 subs will mainly be saved for late game injuries or more likely late game time wasting (I can’t see refs giving 8+ mins of stoppage time if all subs are used for example). Perhaps some rare instances where a manager realises they made a total balls up with the line-up and makes wholesale changes might occur. The one team that probably really benefits is City as their backups are comparable to their starters in a lot of cases and Pep has already shown he is happy to rotate unlike Klopp who’ll probably start the same team 90% of the time and then complain when they are too tired/pick up injuries when he only gives them the odd 10-15 mins off at the end of the games that they are comfortable in.

Well you have to be happy with that result and performance. For me the big thing was just how much confidence the whole team showed and how we were able to stay on the front foot throughout. Keep that up in the season proper and we should be able to pick up some points early. be interesting to see how we do against teams with more possession or where we're under more pressure as it's those sort of circumstances where that confidence has dipped in the past and we've lost form. Just to humor you - it was Leicester, who played exceptionally well over the whole season and thoroughly deserved it. If it wasn't them it would have been Arsenal, followed by Spurs, followed by Man City, followed by Man Utd. You'll notice Saints weren't even close (but still had an amazing season imo). I assume you're using the logic that 'if Leicester won it anyone could have!' but the fact is no-one else - including us - did. There were simply 5 better teams than us that season and one of them just happened to be a team that usually wouldn't play to that standard (a standard we failed to match).

Haha funny bunch aren't they. I even saw one earlier today say there was no reason we couldn't have won the league under Koeman a few years ago.

(as a response to your whole comment so I don't have to quote it all ) Fair enough, thanks for explaining your reasoning as gives me a better idea where you're coming from and I can see why you're thinking that way. I still think that if we are applying that way of thinking to things then you can say the likes of Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes were never given the time to create 'their' teams either and they're looked back on a lot less fondly than Ralph is treated currently, though I understand the inconsistency plays in to that - Puel was consistently boring (if effective), Pellegrino and Hughes were consistently poor where as Ralph swings between brilliant and abysmal within a single season. I'm also not convinced that the current window will lead to it being any more 'his' team or his type of player (though to be honest I don't know what a 'Ralph' style player is even meant to be except for that they can press). I'm sure if we start the season badly you'll soon see comments that the focus on youngsters is a Sports Republic led thing and Ralph should have been allowed to be spend the money on more experienced players or players 'he' wanted. Proof will be in the pudding I guess. Hopefully the new signings are hits and we have a good season which is what we all really want. Fair enough and I completely agree that it could never really be considered 'his' team as there are plenty of other factors that determine which players we bring in not least being that we have a whole scouting team whose job it is to identify these players in the first place. Maybe the next time someone makes a comment saying it's not 'his' team yet then you can point out to them that the idea is foolish so i don't have to waste a post .

To your points... Apologies on the first one, not a comment you have made but one I see often parroted around here and being as I only get 3 posts a day I wanted to highlight it at the same time. Also apologies for the tone of the reply but I have seen the same comments about 'not his team' for years now and have never seen any other manager given the same consideration and so it does tend to annoy me especially when you can see how many players we have brought in for him. To the second point, I agree completely and assume that is the reason Ralph has been given so much time and extra chances despite some abysmal runs of form over the past couple of seasons. If we can get consistency we could improve greatly but i have not seen anything from Ralph yet to suggest he can provide it. maybe the new coaching staff can help with this. To your third point, the point I was making was that in the past 3 and a half years with us Ralph has been able to bring in a number of players to make this his team. The fact that we may be spending a bit more this year does not invalidate any of that - those players brought in are Ralph players and we haven't seen much improvement with them, he has been backed but it has been over a longer period rather than over one or two windows. Of course i'm sure he'd like a better quality of player but you have to have realistic expectations for a club our size - i'm sure given the choice, a bunch of academy products from other teams isn't his preferred choices either this window if he could have anyone he wanted. I'm glad people can have different opinions and in fact the forum is generally better for them. I just find with a lot of opinions that the facts aren't there to back them up and in fact actually prove the opposite (doesn't apply to your post necessarily but I was able to point out that we did already bring in a considerable number of players for him over the years and so it's not only this window that would make it 'his' team). I don't know if he did, maybe it was all down to the scouting team or budgetary reasons, perhaps all of our successful signings had no input from Ralph either. Maybe you could explain the point you are trying to make better? Should our signings not be considered to be at least partly down to Ralph? If not then how could it ever be 'his' team? Are we only to consider them a Ralph signing if they turn out to be successful or if we spend a lot of money on them? My point was simple - while he has been manager we have already brought in a number of players who if not a part of the starting line-up have been a consistent part of the squad and are therefore part of his team. If people disagree and want to explain why the likes of KWP, Salisu, Livramento or Adams are not a part of 'his' team i'd be interested to see why.

What a garbage take. Djenepo, Adams, KWP, Diallo, Salisu, Walcott, Perraud, Livramento, Lyanco, A.Armstrong - all brought in under Ralph, all regular squad players. Even ones he inherited such as JWP, Romeu and S.Armstrong have been some of his better performers. To think that the addition of a few youngsters will be what tips it into being his team is a joke. It's been his for a while now and has been on a noticeable downward curve the past couple of seasons to the point where last season was only marginally better than our season with Pellegrino/Hughes (whose points return that season also would have kept us up every season since, worth remembering when saying Ralph is the only one who could have kept us up).

Romeu, who most of us would consider a 'key' player, is 30 years old and currently going into his last year of his contract with no noises about us trying to extend. For a club that seems to be focusing on youth currently i'm concerned that we may be looking to move him on. It's just a gut feeling but I can't see why else we wouldn't have already tried extending his contract. May be why the Winks rumours aren't going away as being more experienced he may be considered a better replacement for Romeu than another youngster.

2020-21 season - 5 wins and a draw in our first 8 games, so not every season and not even every season under Ralph. Then again we lost literally half our league games that season (highest amount since our Prem return) so even a good start wouldn't signify we'll have a decent season.

Forster was our best keeper the past 2 seasons, Bednarek for all his faults does have 130 Prem Games and 42 international caps under his belt and got 4 goals last season and while you'd hope Lavia would be taking the place of a Smallbone or Diallo, the fact that Romeu hasn't been signed up to a new contract yet does concern me...These are all good signings to supplement the current team but if they are straight up replacements for some of our more experienced players and being thrown in at the deep end straight away then i'd be concerned.

I think lack of experience is certainly a valid concern especially if we are expecting them to come straight into the first team to make an impact. Tino started well last season but tailed off as it went on and it wouldn't surprise me if the number of games he was playing contributed to his injury. Even Salisu's form dipped considerably in the latter half though how much of that was down to fasting for Ramadan we can't say. I'd also wonder the affect of a long winless streak would have on their confidence should it occur as it is a recurring problem under Ralph and he's not been able to turn things around previously with more seasoned pros. Aside from that, does anyone else have any concerns over the lack of noise about any new contracts for players? We seem to have sorted out those out of contract (Lewis & Forster departing, Willy signing an extension & Broja's loan ending - though still waiting on Longs future). But we have quite a number of players going into the last year of their contracts - Romeu, Redmond, Elyounoussi, Djenepo, Valery, Walcott - do we think we will extend for any? Let their contracts run down so they can go on a free? Sell now to get some return on them? You'd hope we'd be trying to tie down Romeu at least but I have this nagging feeling we may move him on this Summer. That's quite a few squad positions that would need replacing and i'd be concerned if we filled them all with youthful potentials. Doesn't even take into account if we did want to move on the likes of Bednarek or A Armstrong as is rumoured.

The 7 game winless streak the start of this past season and the 9 points in 13 games at the start of his first full season with us suggest a 'decent' start is most definitely not guaranteed.

I don't think there's anything except hearsay about a possible clear out but we have 5 players out of contract/ending a loan (Lewis, Caballero, Forster, Long, Broja) and a further 6 players going into their last year who we might want to get some re-sale value on rather than letting go on a free or signing to a new contract (Valery, Romeu, Redmond, Djenepo, Walcott, Elyounoussi). If Bednarek does want a move as has been rumoured that would take it up to 12 possible exits not even including youngsters or potential loans for the like of Smallbone. Do I think they'll all go? No but I could easily see 7-9 of that lot not being here next season.

I'd argue we've been trying to avoid this throughout Ralph's time with us. In terms of players who would actually be likely to start a game we've only really lost Bertrand (out of contract) and Hojbjerg, Vestergaard, Ings who were all going into their last year and had no intention of re-signing which basically forced their sales. Outside of that it's mainly been second stringers / bench warmers or people we actively wanted out of the club such as Hoedt and Lemina. Unless you considered the likes of Targett and Boufal as our better players when they left? Again - going into last year of contract and not looking to re-sign. Yes the sale helped us fund other transfers but the sale was basically required rather than being an option for creating necessary funds. Will be interesting to see how much money the new owners put in over the summer. Several players out of contract (Forster, Lewis, Caballero, Long), others in their last year (Valery, Romeu, Redmond, Djenepo, Elyounoussi, Walcott) and Broja's loan ending mean we could need 8 or 9 new faces if we don't want to let anyone run their contracts down and I don't think we'll get that kind of money from the sale of these players alone.

I understand we want to win as many games as we can and Liverpool are a pretty big scalp for a club our size but lets be honest this is a dead rubber match for us now we're 100% safe. Referring to it as 'our Champions League final' strikes me as more fawning over Liverpool than anything else when all the recent games before this to guarantee safety were much more important at the time. Maybe it's more Ralph's Champions league final than the clubs - I can't see him having said this if our last home game was against Palace for example.

Simple answer - lack of goals. These players did very well over half a season between October and February - 8W, 7D, 4L, 31pts but that also coincided for good runs of form for both Adams (7 goals) and Broja (6 goals) as well as Redmond picking up a number of assists. The rest of the season before and after that period - 1W, 6D, 10L, 9pts. Our only striker to score during those spells? Adam Armstrong on the opening day - that's it. We're lucky Ward-Prowse is such a good free kick taker or we'd be even more in the sh*t. Now the more complicated answer would need to look at why our goal scoring form has dropped off - players out of form? no chances created? coming up against good defenses/goalkeepers? bad luck? Probably a combination of all these things. The other consistent thing though that has been there all season (and in previous seasons) is our poor defensive record - we always look likely to concede in a game. It's that 'we're gonna score more than you' mentality Ralph has but where the strikers aren't consistently good enough to score regularly and the defense is poor enough to always concede so it doesn't always work and we begin losing more than we win. Ralph needs to learn that when the goals start drying up you can't necessarily just switch out one striker for another and hope the goals suddenly start flowing again but that simply tightening up at the back and grinding out a result or two might help turn around momentum and make us less predictable to play against.

We have four forwards (two strikers, two 10's), fullbacks that are told to bomb forward down the wings and two CMs who are told to press high. The defense has to move around and out so much because they are literally the only one's back there when we are pushing for a goal so when we lose the ball and a counter starts there's is literally no help once the ball is played past the half way line (which can be as simple as a ball over the top a lot of the time). The answer is to simply stop committing so many men forward all the time - have at least one CM sitting consistently deeper and have the fullback who's side the offense isn't going down also sit back a bit. Slow down the attack to allow everyone to get back in position and set up a proper defense. It isn't rocket science but it goes against Ralphs high pressing philosophy so we continue to throw men forward, get stone walled by a tightly packed defense then hit on the break.

The high press just compacts the opposition defense and we don't have players skilled enough to play through it. The fact we were regularly having 8 players in the final third and still created nothing just highlighted our weaknesses even more and made us so easy to break against leaving the CBs with no support whatsoever. He has to learn to sit back and let teams push onto us a bit to create gaps if Ralph does continue with us. Our weakness against set pieces also showing up as usual. Other teams seem to know our tactics well and are obviously trying to take advantage of it. It's the same issues we've been seeing week in and week out - players will always have variations in performance but to not even try and adapt to work around our squad shortcomings is foolhardy and we're seeing the results. I swear I saw KWP more on the edge of the opposition box than I did defending the right flank. The subs not really helping either, why only use 2 and leave your top scoring striker on the bench when we are chasing the game? It's frustrating because he's got a tune out of these players previously but he just can't seem to break out of his standard methods and his 'automation's' are leaving us entirely predictable and stifling any possible creativity. I will admit a good portion of the players are also horribly under-performing but when that's been happening for as long as it has you need to make changes rather than just trying the same things over and over again and just hoping it reverts back by itself. You do wonder if he is starting to lose the dressing room now too.

If he knew our problems he'd make a concerted effort to sort our defensive frailties out - Conceding 60+ every season so far (and only 2 goals off of repeating it this year) when the last time prior to his management was our first season back with Kelvin Davis, Jos Hooiveld and Danny fox getting significant minutes, isn't a great look. A defensive focus has worked for Wolves and to a lesser extent Brighton this season. Besides, even when he's had a 20 goal season from a striker he's not managed a top half finish. Add in the points lost from leading positions and that I believe we've conceded the most goals from set pieces this season then it's not hard to see where the problems really lie. That's not to say we can't improve in other areas - all our strikers have been off form for a while now and the fact that Redmond is our leading assister still having not got one since January is pretty damning, but the defensive issues have been here from the start and never addressed. It might not be as attractive to watch (the 'undeniable' right way to play I guess) but it's damn important if you want to be winning games.

Funnily enough, you can neatly split this season into 3 segments - 7 games winless to start the season, followed by a really quite exceptional (for our squad) haul of 31 points in the next 19 games and finally the current 9+ game streak where we've only managed 5 points. A period of literally top 6 form for half a season sandwiched between 2 periods of form that would have us level with Norwich over a season and relegated. Considering it's the same players, with the same coaching staff and not even dependent on quality of opponent (we've taken points off the top 6 and lost to relegation zone teams) you can see why there would be strong views either side on how well Ralph has done this season.