sadoldgit

Which is where we were before the manager you constantly vilify left and we dropped like a stone. And before you counter that we were already dropping we were still closer to the play offs than relagation zone at that point. Even after losing three of our better players last year there was no reason why a mid table finish was not possible (or probable) until Hone made his ill-timed speech and the heart visibley went out of the season. Go and check that date of his announcement and look at the performances before and after. When one of the head honchos announces to the world that any ambition for promotion is effectively over what do you expect to happen?

Surely the question should be why wouldn't Lowe let JP field his best team? As far as I know there is not one shred of evidence to support the notion that Lowe interferes with the team selection but that doesn't stop Alpine dropping it into his posts whenever he can. I seem to remember many posts along the line that a former manager was deliberatley sabataging our promotion attempt too! Hmmmm. What is evident is that the club are trying to build a team for the future and in doing so have been trying to keep the younger players together as much as possible so that in two or three years time they should have progressed to the point that they can mount a promotion push (Wilde has said that there is a 3 year plan to get promotion). Perhaps they have held off using the older players a little too long, but it is also very clear that many players have not been picked because they simply have not been fit. Not Lowe's doing at all. As we know, Lowe has a large backlog of managers. Has any one of them ever stated that Lowe tried to pick the team? We know that he had a hand in signing some players, and which club Chairman doesn't, but inconjunction with his staff rather tha unilaterally. JP might be working to a plan laid down by his bosses, but how many managers are not? Until we have irrefutable profe that Lowe does meddle with the team selections, here's an idea, let's all work on the premise that JP picks the team, sorts out the tactics and is personally responsible for any successes or failures that his team have, ok?

I doubt very much if that is true. Of course the club are going to big up any changes they make but I think most Saints fans knew the score and that this was always going to be a tough season. What should they do? Run a story saying that financial constraints mean that we are going to play kids and bring in a cheap management team so don't expect too much for a year or two? There is nothing wrong with the premise of trying to survive by bringing through your own players. Where is should be tempered though is where the players are not good enough. At some point you have to say enough is enough and bring in the older heads. Hopefully that point was against Watford

I don't quite understand where you get the "winners" from? Surely if we fail everyone fails? I really do not see what Lowe and Wilde gain if the club goes down the pan.

There is still a long way to go. We have some decent players to come back from injury and there are several sides a lot worse than us.

Blimey we have been relegated already? Mystic Alpine strikes again. And the lottery numbers for next week will be???

Here we go again, everything is Burley's is fault. When Higgy was here here was slated for being a hoofer. A number of better players came in under Burley? Better players have come and gone like Davies, remember? Burley's fault? Burley left some time ago, since then we have had two different mangers, why aren't you blaming them for he state of the defence? Doesn't fit your agenda does it? Hasn't JP been here long enough to take the rap for our defensive frailties yet or are you leaving him alone because "he is a decent chap" and you are still blaming our problems on a long departed manager? Higgy chose to leave for more money, I am sure has was really gutted about that.

He wasn't allowed anywhere near the first team, which given the postion we were in, you would have though that @Arry could have done with some advice from a "winner". Like him or not, he was never given a chance to show what he could do at SFC.

If everybody left who ever devided the fan base the club would have collapsed years ago!

He seemed to know more about goalkeepers than WGS! He gave WGS a job when his stock was low, turned out to be a good call. How do you know that he interferes with the team? The only people that divide the fan base is the fan base. Have you not noticed? The fan base are ALWAYS divided about something or someone. he had his moments but would anyone know he was back up the club now? Talk about keeping a low profile.. He is doing a job that if he was not here someone else would have to do, with the same constraints, so why go? At least he knows the club, who is to say someone esle will do any better?

Do the majority of fans go or not go to football matches because of the Chairman or because of what is on display on the pitch - or other reasons? Whilst we know that there are some here who will not go because of the chairman, most will not go because a number of other reasons - Cost, not being in the Prem, finding other things to do, fed up with overpaid footballers, lots of live footy on the telly, no drinking and driving..I am sure there are a lot more reasons that people can find for not going. I stopped going to live matches regularly years ago because a) I started playing footbal myself at weekends and b) the hooliganism. Now I rarely go because I think that the prices ar crazy. I used to be able to turn up on the day and get in with my pocket money. Now I have to plan well in advance, try and get a ticket, and pay about £100 for myself for a home match - £200 if I take my partner, for the day. I am sorry. As much as I love SFC I cannot justify that kind of expenditure on a football match more than a couple of times a year.

The fact that TB & LM are the "top" managers speaks volumes for continuity and sticking by people. LM had the worst start possible and then struggled to get back up with the likes of Channon in the side, but the club stoood by him and reaped the dividends. For me CN was not the right choice to follow LM and when people talk about when the rot set in, that was it for me. LM left a great legacy behind and we needed some to build on that. CN was not that man. We never reached the same heights again. I don't think there is a firm third. WGS, GH and GB all had their moments but no one really stayed around long enough to have what you could call a "career" here. What I find really sad is that over the last half a century, we only have had two oustanding managers - but then many clubs in that time have not even had one...

A takeover is no guarantee of sucess and might even be a more cruel scenario in that the fanbase would assume a cash injection would eqaute to a Prem return and be massively let down if that did not materialise. Remember? The Wilde Bunch rode into town and splashed some paint and money around by like a cheap night on the p*ss, all we were left with was a hang over and a nasty little rash. Whether we survive, flourish or go down the pan is all in the lap of the Gods. There are no quick fixes. There are no sure fire solutions. In many ways I am glad that we hae not been taking over by some "corporation". The so called "big clubs" are mostly racking up huge debts. What is going to happen to them in the long run? This money has to be repaid and at some point I can see some Prem clubs going under, such is the financial climate. It might not be too nice to contemplate, but the best thing for SFC as a club might be to cut its cloth accordingly and jog along in the CCC. What is worse, not getting back in the Prem or the club folding entirely?

I don't agree. Lowe might have gone though plenty of managers back didn't sack many. He might well have lent of him a little to play some of the youngsters though and I would imagine the spending would have been curbed.

Here we go again. Go check the other teams that have gone down over the years apart from Man U. Spurs, Leeds, Notts Forest etc. And gues what, not one of those clubs had Lowe as CEO. It was always going to happen to us at some point and how it didn't happen before I don't know. Goodness knows where we would have ended up without MLT for all those years. Most years it seemed that the pundits were tipping us for relegation, even Dave Jones quipped that he thought we were called "Struggling Southampton". Face it, we were a small club with a long histroy in the top flight whose day was going to come and did, just like a host of others clubs our size.

Wasn't he given £6m ???

A wasted opportunity when he was here. With the team fading fast if you were manager would you knock on his door and ask for advice? What was there to lose apart from our Prem status and Harry's ego? I just find it odd that we are so quick to knock down anyone who has any success, I mean it is not as if this club has not needed some of that over the last how many years??? I suspect that he still suffers from his association with Lowe. If he had been a part of the Wilde Bunch I wonder if his arrival would have been greeted differntly by those who think that his methods can't be transferred to other sports? We went down the shoot not because of Woodward but because certain people were too arrogant to let him near the first team. Maybe he would have made a differnce, maybe not, but could he done any worse than Arry? Still, not to worry, he won't be back, nor will anyone of note after the way they get treated by a large percentage of our fans.

Playground mentality again Alpine? You can dish it out but when it all comes rushing back to you you pick up your ball and trot off home.....

No harm in trying to raise the level of debate out of the gutter and away from bigotted, petty minded abuse though is there? It is all too easy to come on these places and spout ill thought out rants as the member we are dealing with here does all too often. I don't know about you, but I feel very uncomfortable when a fellow human being not only delights in seeing another fail, but constantly uses up a lot of time and energy to point any such or alleged failures out to everyone else. It is also easy to peddle third hand internet gossip as fact to back up weak arguements, something else our fellow scribe does on more or less a daily basis. This should be a place where Saints fans can come and deal with the issues surrounding the club without having to wince at the performances from some people who seem to get a kick out of pulling people apart and in wallowing in pessimism and negativity. I have lost count at the number of times Alpine has been banned. Maybe we should adopt the US way forward, three strikes and you are out? Maybe then he will behave himself and treat others with a bit of respect.

Yep, you never fail to let me down Alpine, and you never fail to bite, no matter how many times you say you will no longer respond. Well don't worry, I won't ask you to expand on your subjective, rascist and downright prejudiced opinions any longer. Like most opinionated bullies, instead of responding with a reasoned arguement you completelty sidestep the question and just reaffirm your ignorance by bolstering your orginal position with further abuse aimed elsewhere. England might not look like world beaters but they have maximum points. I know that means nothing to you because you think that a manager that took us to the players offs was a total failure, so no doubt, when we qualify for the next world cup we shall be total failues too. Still, as you have either bailed out of this country (or have been hounded out by your neighbours) I expect that your allegence now lies with that football powerhouse, Austria? Oh, and if you mean by reaching the top pinnicle of your profession, whether that means being the CEO of your company or managing your national football team is seen as making it "big", then yes. I think that most people with a reasonable grasp of basic decsion making would think that was the case. The biggest prize in footballing hisory is the World Cup Alpine. Therefore no manager can claim to be the "world's best" until he has won the world's biggest competition. ps, if you want to throw in winning the Champions league, that excludes clubs from a large percentage of the world.

As much as I can understand why people don't warm to Mr Cole, as long as the manager picks him he is an England player. If we want to win something again we need to support our team (ie the players) while they are playing. If booing ever had a benefit on a teams/players performace then why are teams who are booed regulalry top of the league? Because it doesn't work and it doesn't help. If you are doing a crap job and people come up and slag you off, do you work better or worse? Does your confidence rise or sink and do you feel better about yourself or worse? I know the old arguement that it makes people want to prove the booers wrong. Listen it doesn't work like that. It is ignorant and unhelpful, plain and simple. As for the, "I have paid my money and am entitled to boo brigade", do you boo a horse when it loses a race or a Britsish tennis player when once again they fail to win a majour tournament? No. So why boo a footballer? Whether Cole is good or bad is neither here nor there. I think a lot of it comes down to plain jealousy. He earns shedloads of money for kicking a ball abaout and has a lifestyle (and a fit wife) that 99.9% of the fans can only dream about. Therefore, as soon as he makes a mistake he is fair game. There is a hint in here. It is the word "supporter". The word "supporter" is derived from the word "support". "Support" implies positivity. Where does booing fit in with that ethos?

No bigotry there then Alpine? LOL. And you talk about me lsoing credibility??? You really have no problem at all in slagging off people you have never met and know precious little about do you? And if they are foreign so much the better. If they ever make a movie of Till Death Us Do Part you would be perfect for the Alf Garnett role. Whilst you are at it Geoff, England gave the world Alpine Saint, boy does this country have a lot to answer for. Okay, I am done, feel free to make another comment about my membership status instead of answering the many questions you have either ducked or responded to with racial slurs and general abuse.

The reason Redknapp failed here is because he could not be bothered. In his own words he ddn't know what he was doing here (probably getting back at Mandaric), he always talked about SFC in the third person. THese things had nothing to do with Lowe or Woodward. When Harry could not buy Morrison he gave up the chase for a striker saying he would make do with what he had (in a season when we couldn't score). That had nothing to do with Lowe, who said at the time he was waiting for Redknapp to provide him with a list of targets. On the day before the most crucial game in years (home against Man United) he gave the players a day off. Nice one Harry. That worked a treat. BY all account Redknapp was constantly on the phone to Mandaric whilst here, and who can forget the notorious thumbs up to Mandaric at Fratton Park after Portsmouth had humiliated us? I think that most of us thought that Redknapp could keep us up when he arrived, but he watsed something like £6m on rubbish like Davenport when we were crying out for a decent centre half. I don't believe that he came to deliberatlely sabotage the club, but he surely could not have done much worse if he had.

We were poor for a long time in the Prem but I guess people turned up just to see a Prem game. I used to live in S London and go to Palace with my mates, not because I was interested in Palace but because I wanted to see a Prem game. Less people are interested in CCC footy and what we have now is probably a true refection of the hard core "paying" support. I used to turn up at the gate and get in with my pocket money, now you need a second mortage and a ticket. I am not going to spend the same amount of money going to a football match as I would to a rock concert. I think football has priced itself out of a certain market.

However our manager is right now would have a tough job. This is not about the short term, it is about the long term, but how many fans have any patience beyond the next half a dozen games? Whether you agree with the building on youth strategy or not, I don't see that we have much option. With little money available for new signings JP has to build for the future with what he has and he needs support whilst doing so. Whether he succeeds are not, only time will tell, but I think it is way to early to make any judgements yet. On the up side he does want his sides to play football whereas we could easliy have ended up with someone who just wanted to lump the ball forwar. That is the easy and quick option. As Burley found, it is not easy to get you teams to keep the ball on the ground and play when there is so much at stake. JPs sides seem to want to do that, so perhaps if he can keep working on the football ethic hopefully it will all come right at some point. One thing is for sure, it certainly isn't going to happen overnight or anytime soon.