sadoldgit

How do you define success? For me this season it would be staying out of administration and avoiding relegation. If he does that, sorted. For all we know he might have had a great deal of success in keeping the club afloat. Some say we would already be in administration if he and Cowan had not returned. True of not I don't know. If brining through the kids was an aim of the club then that too has happened so you could say in some perverse way that was a success. Whatever. If the club does not go into admin. in February as suggested here and if Wotte manages to turn things round on the pitch, I won't be complaining.

I don't think that they are equal Wes but the principle is the same. They are both using others to feed their agendas to the forum. It is just that one paid people to do it and one uses well know and respected posters who they know will get a good hearing. Two lots of Trojan horses but one bought and paid for an the other home grown.

Of course because what might be seen as good (and necessary) by some will not be seen as so by others with a certain agenda.

No I don't but then if you read certain newspapers you will know their agenda. For example you know where the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mirror are coming from. You know that they will spin things in a certain way so you can read them with that in mind. The last place in the world I expect to find impartial views is on an football internet forum, but it is always helpful to know where the information is coming from isn't it? For example, Crouch has an issue with the way the club is being run so he will feed information here that supports his agenda. It may well be that certain things are being done in a certain way because of the financial situation, but it isnot in his interest to promote unity and stability - hence before the new manager has even taken charge of his first match we get negative stories about him leaked on here. Those with a certain agenda lap it up, but how does that help a club in trouble? Just makes things worse. Same with the right wing media, they are loving Gordon Brown's discomfort but how does that help the country in the long run? Will their man be better at running the economy in these circumstances? Maybe, maybe not. But they will have us belive he can because that is their agenda.

Was it you Tris?

And Paul Allen was going to buy the club. If it happens it happens, but never forget that most of what you read on internet forums is rubbish. If this was the Middle Ages were would all be talking about the Earth being flat!!!

Think yourself lucky Andrew. At one point I was thought to be one of Lowe's PR plants even though I had been talking b*ll*x on the SaintsList for years!!!!!

I think there are several people here being fed information (or disinformation depending on your point of view). If you log on regularly it is not hard to suss them out. Phantom opinions are loaded agendas, any real difference? If I believed what was posted here George Burley was one step away from AA. Since he has gone on to a higher profile job wouldn;t you think that would have become a major issue? Or maybe he was just a bloke who liked a bevvy but had a number of people who decided they were going to pull him down on an interent chat show because they had an agenda? Still, it was 99% certain the Pearson was staying and Saltz is just gagging to put money in the club he is just waiting for Lowe to go (oh that's right, he did go) so what does an armchair supporting wuss know that those ITK don't? Ah yes, I don't have an agenda! Sometimes it is helpful to be a fence sitter, that way you don't get sucked in by people who are out to use you!

I think you do have a lot of influence here Duncan and you play to the crowd. But fair play to you. If you have an audience why not milk it? And I do think you play your audience very well. I think you use your experience as a shop steward to good effect. I also think you are very clever and very selective in what you post, but then that is just my opinion. I am sure there are postive things about the club and the regime that end up on the cutting room floor but again, just my opinion. I suppose my ongoing problem with your posts is that, as a historian, I expect you to dig deep to find facts, not just repeat tittle tattle in support of a well worn agenda. By the way, I thought the timing of your nostalgia post was brilliant! The timing of your return to the forum was also very clever, nothing for months and then when you sense that the forum is ready for some petrol you are on hand to throw some on the fire, I guess Richard Chorley will reappear soon too. I know you think I am just an armchair bound wuss, fair enough. But I too love SFC and I think that at times like these we need to put personal agendas to one side and get behind the club. The whole club and not just the nice bits that have mostly now been consigned to history and the cuddly bits we liked and no longer exist. You said some time back you would rather we get relegated than have Lowe at the helm. My position has never changed, I don't care who is at the helm so long as we don't get relegated. You have sided with Crouch who was one game away from relegation last season. If we are safe before the end of the season would that not be at least an improvement? Not in your book I suspect and that is where we shall always differ.

Are you a Crouch PR plant?

I don't think the problem is someone backing one person or another. I just think it is odd that if one person uses another to drip feed information (or misinformation) and that is seen as reprehensible then why is it okay for another person to do the same thing? Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander? Personally I don't have a problem with it if people are upfront about their contacts. We can then at least make some form of judgement about the information and the agenda behind it (and I am not taking sides here one way of the other). Wilde, for all of his faults at least did used to come on and chat in person. Whether Duncan is being used by Crouch that I cannot say. But a man with an agenda is easily used by another. Whether Duncan thinks it was helpful to tell us that our new manager was despised by the players when the club is desparate for unity I don't know. Where that information came from I don't know, nor do I care. What does bother me is that is Lowe were to use this forum again to further his propaganda he would be crucified, yet it seems quite all right for any opponent of Lowe to use the same tactics.

Lowe was rightly condemned on here for his ham fisted attempt to use PR plants on the forum. We agree that was wrong. Is it okay though for Crouch and his chums to use certain mouthpieces here for the same purpose? Surely the only difference is that one lot did it for money?

Instead of petty point scoring perhaps we should just get behind Wotte for the rest of the season eh? I am sure there are many here who would love it if we went down so they can be proved right.

Good point. There is still a long way to go.

How long has Saga been back?????

Perhaps Mark Wotte needs your crystal ball? I expect he will make worse choices and win. Just a shame that you can't take any postives from tonight.

He moaned about a manager who effectively won every other game? Yes of course he was right.........

The bloke has been the manager for one game, give him a chance. He made changes and it worked. Isn't thta something to be hapy about. Most of us would have been well happy with a point before the game. Hopefully he will have learned from tonight and we will kick on from here.

I would have taken a point at the start of the game, even more so at half time. It might be disappointing tonight with other results but at the end of the season this point might make all the difference....but hey, let's just slag off the new manager anyway shall we?

Saga needs to play from the start. Great point though after being 2-0 down.

The Young Ones

If JP quit I suspect that it was suggested that he do so...

There needed to be a change and that change has been made. Hopefully Wotte will prove to be a better option but only time will tell (despite him already being written off as a failure). With little cash to spalsh it might make sense to upgrade Wotte and bring in another striker. If Wotte can keep the away form going and turn around the woeul home form we shall be okay. Let's pray, for the sake of SFC, that he can.

McMenemy managed in the 2nd Divison and took some three years to get promotion with the likes of Mick Channon in the team. Ted Bates managed in lower divisions. Everything is relavtive. Burley managed in the CC with a CCC squad. You could argue that McMenemy managed in the 2nd divison with a 1st Division squad (Channon Osgood Ball etc)

I was comparing his record, that is all. As for Burley, slate him all you like but the stats are there fo all to see. I am not saying he was our greatest manager, I am just saying it is odd how someone can deliver the goods in terms of results and still be hated. He is not my chum and as to whether he is a drunk, well what the hell. It didn't hold Clough back did it? And do you know Burley and JOnes personally? Do you know how much each of them drinks? As for bottomless pit of money, perhaps we should look at how much each manager spent over their reign? And since when did spending money achieve anything?