van Hanegem

I can understand the sentiment about Russians killing former Russians in a vile way but the "solidarity" from the EU by sending Russian diplomats back home is rather stupid. They're escalating things without having real proof which is not done in diplomatic circles. Besides, Putin is much better in this game than all those EU-politicians together so in the end it will be all meaningless and the position of European countries at the negotiating table will become weaker. I specifically don't understand the Dutch government, in 2014 a total of 193 dutchmen were killed in the MH-17 accident (a Russian BUK rocket shot down a plane from Malaysian Airlines above Ukraine) and though there's more "proof" that Russians were involved than in this Skripal case, no Russian diplomat was expelled. Of course the relatives of the victims of MH-17 are furious now... In the near future the Dutch government might need the help from Russia to get the idiots who shot the plane down, I guess a short "njet" will be the answer. Surely the EU must be much more important than it's citizens...

Of course there were Germans who didn't like national socialism at all SOG, Hitler and his cronies weren't even slightly popular in the very beginning. But eventually things went wrong badly and the "good" Germans didn't or couldn't do anything to make it stop. Don't get me wrong, it's fine with me to point out that not all muslims are radical fools (I don't believe that anyone here has that idea) as there are also more liberal movements within islam but I do worry that they won't make a difference in the way islam in Europe is going. Let's end this with something positive, there's a documentary about Hissa Hilal, an islam loving woman who dares to stand up against the religious idiots calling the shots within islam. A very courageous woman and someone you will certainly favour.

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark" springs to mind but at least the Danes are wide awake. When even their chairman of the socialist party says that migrants are not loyal to Denmark but to their family, culture, tradition and the Middle-East (he didn't say islam... ) it's clear they are way ahead of the rest of western Europe. I don't expect that the socialist parties in Sweden, Germany or the Netherlands will follow their Danish compatriots any time soon as they are still believing in outmoded and misguided terms like racism and discrimination. Hopefully the Danish approach of the problems will lead to rapid success which could be the trigger for others. The fact that the Danish socialist party has regained trust of the voters might have set an example that other socialists can emulate. Though I get the impression from this forum there are not many waiting for Jeremy Corbynn to govern...

I've always hoped there would be some kind of European islam, a more enlightened version which could adapt to European democracy, values etc. Of course there are muslims who have adjusted themselves to life in European countries but too many of them didn't and I really doubt they ever will. There won't be a reformation from within islam Hypo, it needs to be ignited from outside. Amazingly there are socialists who understand this. The Danish socialist party welcomed migrants from the Middle-East with open arms back in '95 but they've concluded it was a mistake to believe that the second generation of these migrants would adapt and they blame themselves for the realisation of parallel societies. So now they have a totally different view on migration from islamic countries and they've also initiated a package of measures to take on the problems with muslims like: little kids get pork meat for lunch at school (this is for real! ) and they have to speak Danish fluently otherwise they have to follow special classes, muslim women have to accept full time jobs or they will lose all social security benefits, there's a maximum of 30% of non western migrants in urban areas, muslim girls must be allowed to have a relationship with Danes. Really amazing to hear all this from socialist politicians, in this link you can find a video: https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2224187-nationalistische-koers-moet-deense-sociaaldemocraten-redden.html Most is in Dutch and Danish but the interviews are in English.

Mussolini would be 2?

That's very noble SOG, like it was very noble too to don't see any problems with Germans who believed national socialism was a good thing 80 years ago. Law abiding citizens who would surely condemn the stuff their leaders practiced "if they only had known..."

Wilders is losing it, seeing his latest campaign against islam even I am nearly tempted to a silly and meaningless expression like "je suis muslim". I guess being protected 24/7 and moving to another safe house every three weeks for 13 years now does have an impact on one's mental health. But it is remarkable that christian refugees or immigrants from muslim countries integrate quietly while so many of their muslim countrymen after 50 years still don't. The French Zineb El Rhazoui (the sole survivor of the attacks on Charlie Hebdo because she wasn't there) said that in France the left elite (politicians, journalists etc.) refuse to acknowledge that there's a problem with islam, they consider muslims as people who are not able to accede to universalism and think it's best to leave these miserable people alone: "white people like us believe in equality of the sexes and universalism and we got rid of superstition, those muslims can't so just let them be and allow them to be different". How racist is that? It's not very different in countries like Germany or the Netherlands where the elite consider the populist parties as a nuisance which will go away when the economy is booming. Each day we get to hear Russia is threatening Europe, as usual the real threat comes from within... Europe needs more people like Zineb El Rhazoui who speak out against the facism within islam without being part of some right wing movement.

I didn't say that you don't see any issues at all SOG, on the contrary. As you said earlier: "I don't disagree that there are big problems within the muslim communities in a number of areas van H. They clearly need to be addressed." Now you're telling me you don't see any issue with islam, do you really believe that "the big problems within muslim communities" have nothing to do with islam? Yes, islam is gaining territory in Europe, it would be very naive to deny this. I don't like the term "invading", it reminds me of the Dutch politician Wilders who adresses the problems with islam in a disgusting way. Then again, Wilders' political party is the second largest in the Netherlands and it's not only the usual suspects who vote for him. Many christians from Turkey, Iraq, Egypt etc. who came to the Netherlands in the past 30 years believe he's the only politician who understands what is happening: "we know what life is in islamic countries, we don't want that again..." I agree, it would be a good thing to also mention the areas where integration is happening. Last year there was a women's organization (including muslim women!) who suggested a poster campaign to celebrate love in Amsterdam, "the gay capital of Europe". Too bad the city council refused this as they deemed it too offensive for the traditional muslims... Earlier the city council of Rotterdam thought it was a good idea and went along. I guess I won't have to tell you how muslim organanizations and so called left wing liberals reacted...

I can't speak for other other forum members but I don't have the impression that anyone here blames each and every muslim SOG, just like they don't blame every catholic for the vile acts within the catholic church or other religions. There's no difference between the killing of an innocent muslim and the killing of an innocent non-muslim, it's all horrible. But comparing the dirt within christianity with islam is imo not relevant. Though I feel sorry for every individual believing fairytales, there's no danger coming from christians as their churches have accepted they're not calling the shots (though the vatican still has to much influence in the world...) while the islam will never accept a minor role. In the Netherlands muslims used to vote for socialist parties in the elections but that's changed. The majority now votes for a muslim party which has three seats in the parliament at the moment and though they don't have much power they enlarge the gap between muslims and non-muslims, especially by filming muslim members from other political parties who vote for something which contradicts islamic views and posting this on YouTube etc. In Turkish mosques imams tell their flock for which party they have to vote as instructed by Diyanet which is sponsored by Erdogan and his cronies and you'll probably agree that muslims are not well known for independent thought... In Rotterdam there's also a local muslim party gaining influence, they are making an issue of "the abuse caused by the separation of church and state". What the hell? We're going the wrong way SOG and and we need to resist islam gaining too much territory in Europe, maybe topics like this will help to wake up some people who - unlike you -don't see any problems at all.

It's not about some muslims who interpret the koran wrongly SOG, it's about the fascism within islamic groups like wahabists and salafists who oppose the freedom of the individual and therefore don't belong in Europe. Governments have tolerated these groups for too long and now you can find citizens from across Europe revolting against their politicians, especially against socialist parties who clearly f*cked up. Criminal acts from muslims and immigrants get more attention on a forum (I'm not so sure about traditional media) and yes, this could be a result of the old "us against them". Not surprising when you realise that too many muslims and immigrants do not integrate, let alone assimilate. Of course there's the danger that all muslims are lumped together as there are many who don't know any better. Last week Pegida again put some crosses (this time without pig blood...) in the ground where a mosque will be built in a Dutch city with the statement "#noislamjustfreedom". There we go... At the same time you can ask yourself how authorities could fail big time in Rochdale, Rotherham and now Telford. Do you believe it's true that the fear of being accused of racism is playing a role? If so, isn't it logical that people start worrying about the influx of migrants and the way authorities and politicians are dealing with this?

Fair question but I believe also rhetorical: many "Westerners" (myself included) consider islam a backward ideology and believe wahabism and salafism are a threat to western values (freedom of speech, equality of the sexes etc.). I'm not a sociologist but I reckon that attacks by muslimterrorists offer an opportunity to express the fear amongst westerners for islam gaining influence. Then again: according to the FBI 37 Americans were killed by muslimterrorists since 9/11 while 190,000 Americans were murdered by their countrymen and yet many Americans are more afraid of some bearded idiot they'll probably never meet than their neighbours gun collection. So what does this mean? That many Americans are some kind of racist imbeciles? Though I do like to think so, I guess there's a more complex answer to that question.

“We needed to have as secretary general somebody who really knows how the EU works and has connections in Europe and beyond.” According to Jean-Claude Juncker the German Martin Selmayr is that somebody... It now appears that Selmayr got his new job by promising EU Commissioners more suspension, an office with two assistants and a car and driver after they retire. Of course it's all denied at this moment but in case things turn out to be true I'll bet we get to hear that democracy is still functioning in Brussels...

True, the gap between the political establishment and "the people" in European countries is probably the biggest in Italy. However, you can't deny that scepticism about the EU is still growing in many European countries. It's not about leaving the EU but merely about the the course of the EU towards a federal union and the gut feeling that neither the European Parliament, European Commission nor even the ECB can be trusted to make the right decisions. I reckon there are not many Europeans who believe that the EU can prevent another crisis like we had in Greece. Hopefully Italy won't be the next problem but I fear it's going to cost Northern Europe again an awful lot of money in order to keep the euro alive.

Left wing liberal, me?

Too many people get too old Moonraker. Luckily I live in the Netherlands which is a bit more liberal about euthanasia than the UK. It won't take too long before we have some kind of pill for those who believe their lifes must come to an end and want an easy way out. That will save some taxmoney...

The murder rate in the Netherlands is on the rise again in 2017 but I'm more interested in why the number of stabbing incidents in the UK is rapidly growing: from 14,000 in 2008 to 37,000 in 2017, that's an exceptional increase. In the Netherlands and Germany there are also more incidents due to immigration and budget cuts on healthcare for the mentally ill and I guess this will be the same in the UK. But it can't be the sole reason for an increase with 164% in 10 years time...

Is that also the case with grown ups? I read that 80 people died in London last year because of knife attacks but the article mentioned it's a problem all over the UK. Already in 2018 people were killed in Birmingham and Oxford and according to the journalist all the big cities have to deal with this problem.

Horrible news again and even more horrific that nothing will be done to stop this. In the meantime 37 kids died in the UK in 2017 because of knive attacks: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/28/beyond-the-blade-the-truth-about-knife-in-britain There must be something wrong in the UK also.

I didn't mean to correct you, I mentioned the Netherlands to make the comparison with the UK... It appears that housing problems are comparable but I get the impression that the pension system, social welfare and healthcare are way better in the Netherlands (as long as the EU (Merkel & Macron) stay clear from these). The population in the Netherlands grew from 12,5 million in 1967 to 15 million in 1992, it's 17 million at this moment so nothing spectacular there. It's different in the UK where the population grew from 55,6 million in 1970 to 57,9 million in 1995, in 2015 it's already 64,7 million and yes, according to Migration Watch immigration is key in this rapid growth and the problems in the housing market.

Yup, and San Marino, Guernsey and Jersey.

The Netherlands is the most densely populated country in Europe (besides Vatican City that is... ) and the population has grown since 1992 with more than 13%. Mass immigration will have some effect on the rising cost of healthcare and housing (prices are skyrocketing at this moment) but imo it's negligible compared to the ageing of the population (already 18% of the population is 65 or older) and the fact that we stopped building new houses due to the recession of the last years. In fact we need immigration of young people to keep things going in the next decades. Of course those immigrants should be able to adjust rapidly to our knowledge economy but that's another discussion. I reckon the situation in the UK isn't that much different from the Netherlands.

I guess this would help Labour to win the elections, is Paxman on their side? So, besides natives versus immigrants, black versus white, muslims versus non muslims we now have old versus young. So much for solidarity in the society...

Newcastle seems to be willing to make an offer for Nicolai Jorgensen which Feyenoord can't refuse. Hopefully it's not true as I wouldn't like him to leave but if so I would rather like him to go to Southampton of course. He would do a better job for Saints than Promes... https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/newcastle-locked-talks-sign-20-14194931

There were few who did their job but do you know any Dutch player in the national team who was succesfull in the PL lately besides VVD?

Nope, usually the better players in the Netherlands are from Amsterdam or used to play for Ajax, no grudges there. I didn't see any trickery from Promes in the national team at all, maybe he left his magic wand in Russia? But then again, I haven't seen any of his games in Russia (I guess many here have never seen him play) so it's difficult to make a real judgement. However , based on his appaearances for the national team it's justified to doubt his ability to adept to the PL.