van Hanegem

Just heard a short interview with Koeman on Dutch radio: "The first few days I got tears in my eyes when I saw my players on the training pitch, there was a lot of senseless running and the players seemed not to be able to control the ball. So, there was a lot of work to be done and that has payed off. Although there's a lot of progression to be made, at this moment there are only two teams playing better football than Saints: Chelsea and City. But United will come back as they have the means to do it, it just takes some time to get there..." Looking forward to the match against van Gaal? "Off course, it will be special." Did the playing level of the PL disappoint you? "No, there are a few clubs left who play the traditional way (4-4-2 and keep on running) but with the arrival of European coaches/managers the level has improved much." On the Dutch national team: "No, I'm not laughing about the current problems, I've worked with several players in the team and I feel sorry for them. I also like Guus Hiddink though he should have acted differently towards me when he was appointed as manager (Koeman wanted the position of coach of the national team after Feyenoord) but there are no hard feelings left. If I might smile about the current situation it concerns the Dutch FA." Nothing remarkable I guess but hey, you wouldn't hear this elsewhere...

"En hier volgen de uitslagen uit de Engelse Premier League: Manchester City - Tottenham Hotspur 4-1, Southampton - Sunderland 8-0..." 8-0... 8-0! Congratulations Saints, can't wait to see the matches against ManU, Chelsea and ManCity. Will Saints be up to it to grab some points against them?

What the F...? You want Koeman to buy our biggest talents because they are cheap to get? I like Saints very much but as a Feyenoord fan I would like to tell you to p... off! But there's no need for that, Koeman loves Feyenoord and he won't be like Wenger who stole van Persie for a nickle and a dime, Koeman will pay a fair price whenever he believes one of our talents is ready for the PL. At this moment there's only one player at Feyenoord who is ready for the next step and that is Jordy Clasie although I do have my doubts about him playing in the PL because of his fysics (he's rather small). But if he wants to move over to the PL, Saints might be the right club for him because of Koeman and the way he wants to play. I guess 10 million will be enough but as Saints can swim around in their cash, 5 more will do thank you very much! Terence Kongolo and Sven van Beek are our new central defenders and they are better than Stefan de Vrij and Bruno Martins Indi but both need to get more experienced before they are ready to go abroad. Besides that, Stefan de Vrij and Bruno Martins Indi are not that good as you seemingly believe. Holland didn't play that well at the WC either, we were just lucky that Robben played the tournament of his life... With Pelle and Tadic Saints have got the best players from the Dutch league last year and they are surely missed at present. At this moment there are no players in Holland equal to them so you don't have to bother with the Dutch league for now.

"The Shanghai Saints", it does alliterate...

Sounds good but eventually the well will dry up. Nowadays every talent in the world is known and followed by many different scouts, a club like Saints has to choose from the leftovers and how good your scouts might be, it's not going to work out every year. You can see it over here in Holland with clubs like Feyenoord, Ajax and PSV, each year the overall level of their game is getting worse (although Feyenoord's game is getting a little better after Koeman and Pelle left) because they are not able to find the right replacements. Off course Saints has more money or is willing to spend more money than these Dutch clubs but it's a tricky path. As most players these days are only interested in money, it migh be a better idea to give your key players a bonus instead of spending your money on replacements you're not certain they will do the job.

+1 I wrote in another topic that it won't be long before a PL club moves to another place because it's owner doesn't like the current town or city or because there's more money to make. "Football is a product which has to be sold...", you can see the dollar signs in the eyes of the marketing t***s. Thank God that no one abroad is interested in Dutch football.

Thanks for your reply dodd, good to read my impression is wrong!

HaHa! Like many fellow dutchmen I can also laugh about RK and LvG when they speak English. It won't be long before we'll see an ad campaign for some English Course over here. Mind you, I can sympathise with them as it isn't that easy to say exactly what you mean in another language. Especially when it comes to specific terms related to football. Some terms don't even exist in English... RK and LvG are thinking in dutch and have to translate these thoughts immediately to English but they will learn fast. The pronounciation might stay the same but they will get better at expressing their thoughts in a couple of months. In the meantime RK "reaches" (if that is the right word... his players far more better than LvG! Lucky for you guys...

LvG likes to speak highly about dutch tactics and the tactical skills the avarage dutch players and managers have and he may have a point there (especially when you hear english managers like Redknapp or Rodgers talking about football) but saying that the Eredivisie is equal to the Serie A is rubbish. The Ligue 1 is also a stronger competition than the Eredivisie, the avarage wage in the Eredivisie is 206K so you can understand that better players are looking elsewhere... The enormous salary gap between the Eredivisie and the other european competitions can't be closed with tactical skills only so there's why dutch clubs are playing minor roles in the Champions League and Uefa League where they used to be key players in the past. On the other hand: as a dutchman I prefer the Eredivisie over the Serie A, Ligue 1 and regularly over the PL too. Why? Because dutch managers ususally try to figure out how their team can win instead of thinking how to prevent a loss... It makes the game so much more fun to watch, like Johan Cruyff says: "you have to shoot, otherwise you can't score..." I can't imagine Pelle scoring the way he did in the Eredivisie, with Feyenoord the whole team played in his service and that won't happen at Saints. But I'm convinced that he will adjust to the pace of the PL and 15 or 16 goals this season sounds reasonable if he stays fit. Besides, defenders in the PL are better than those in the Eredivisie but all in all, they're not that good either. One more thing: I get the impression that many Saints fans are only looking for his goals but they should also have an eye for his participation in the set up of an attack. Pelle is able to hold the ball while his teammates are getting in position and he can deliver the right pass at the right time (sorry, can't find the english word for "steekbal" ).

Thanks for the compliments guys, it's difficult to express my thoughts as English is not my native language but I'm trying... Especially the translation of specific football terms like "circulatievoetbal" (circulation football?) or "spelen met ruimte in je rug" (playing with a lot of space behind the defense) are troublesome. I'm learning also, when I read on this forum that Koeman is able to "gel" the team I was thinking that Koeman had a problem with the haircuts of his players and used the stuff Pelle puts in his hair... @Redslo I Agree, a wagecap isn't going to work. The best thing that could work is to limit the amount of foreigners at three or five players per club as it used to be in the past in Holland (in the UK also?) but that's not going to happen with the stupid politicians in the EU who believe a football player has to be treated as a regular employee at a factory. Just another reason to get out of this stupifying union... What to make of this: Real Madrid has a debt of 600 million euros and yet they buy each year new players for disgusting amounts of money. This is made possible by Spanish banks who are in trouble themselves and are subsidised by the EU. And where gets the EU it's fundings? Yep, your and my taxmoney... It's sickening. As more and more clubs in the UK become dependable of some idiot owner, the time will come that an owner will decide to move his toy to another town or city because he sees more potential or status over there, or just because he (or she) doesn't like the place in which the club is founded. Yes, American bull*hit indeed but it's coming as the situation in the PL is getting out of hand... Don't get me wrong, I still love the atmosphere around English clubs. Being a little kid in the sixtees I collected cards of European footballclubs and looking at weird names (for a Dutch kid that is...) like Chrystal Palace, Tottenham Hotspur or Wolverhampton Wanderers gave some kind of magic feeling. I still like to read the stories about these clubs and their club culture. It would be a shame when their culture is destroyed by idiots with too much money. Like we say in Holland: football belongs to the fans. I'm wondering if this is still the case in the PL... @Angelman You're right, Saints and Feyenoord are both famous for their academies and maybe they could learn from each other to get even better results. it wouldn't surprise me when Koeman starts a discussion on this subject. A friendly game in the pre season campaign would be nice also!

Koeman did a great job at Feyenoord but the trouble we're in at this moment has to do with the fact that we don't have a successor for Pelle. Pelle was our main man who could keep the ball in possession and made decisive goals. For now we have to do with a couple of young kids (Mitchell Te Vrede and Elvis Manu) who lack experience and lose the ball too often which results in poor play and to many chances for our opponents at counterattack. We also got an English Turk called Kazim Richards who hasn't played for 6 months. Hopefully Kazim will surprise us the same way Pelle did but he's taking his time... Last week he stated that he's not fit for 90 minutes and prefers to play 30 minutes the coming weeks. But he made a good impression when he made his debut and who knows: maybe we can sell him to Saints next year for 5 or 6 million when you lose Pelle to that idiot Rodgers! But to be honest: in contradiction with most Feyenoord fans I believe we have an even better coach now with Fred Rutten, in the past he has proven with Twente that he's able to get a team to play better football while Koeman failed to make this happen in his three years with us. Later today we play our everlasting rivals Ajax and I expect a win but some positive thinking from you lads might help!

When this autobiography is written like van Gaal speaks English, I can understand it's not a flowing read... It is true that van Gaal prefers younger players because it's easier to work with them, usually the established 'names' have a bigger ego and are not that willing to sacrifice themselves for the team like van Gaal demands. With Holland at the WC he managed to do right this with Robben, van Persie and Sneijder who worked their as*ses of for the younger and unexperienced teammates (I believe Robben's avarage distance was 11 kilometer per game) and though his 5-3-2 system was no fun to watch at all and totally opposed to Dutch standards, I have to admit that he worked well with the big names in his squad. I thougt it was quite remarkable that he used the system Koeman played a couple of times with Feyenoord (because of the inexperienced defenders at Feyenoord) because he and Koeman are not on speaking terms since their row at Ajax. Besides that, pompous a*s that he is, van Gaal looks at Koeman as an inferior manager/coach. Can't wait to see the game against ManU! @saint michael Us dutchmen are known for being a little to blunt or open in our dialogue, Koeman is a typical example of this, just like Cruyff and van Gaal. But Paul Lambert is a wan*ker off course... @John B I wasn't talking money when I said that van Gaal would get Saints to the next level.

Still one day to go Robbie but it looks like Schneiderlin and Clasie are going to stay at their clubs. Fine with me!

van Gaal is the more experienced manager/coach who has proven himself not only with with big clubs like Ajax (winner Champions League in '95), Barcelona and Bayern Munich but also with a club like AZ Akmaar who became Dutch champions with van Gaal. To become champion with the mentioned big clubs might not look like something remarkable but you must consider that van Gaal is not your avarage manager, he has developed a vision on football which involves all parts of a footballclub. From the youth academy to the maintenance of the pitch and so on, van Gaal wants control of it all and if there's one man who can turn around things at Old Trafford, it's him. His problem is just that he's a total a*s when it comes to criticism from the media and that he has problems with owners/boardmembers when they don't listen to them (for example at Munich). But when he gets enough time and support he will succeed. Koeman can only dream of the achievements of van Gaal but I don't believe that he will even do that. After his success at Ajax and PSV Eindhoven he clearly failed at Valencia and AZ Alkmaar and his reputation went down the hill. This changed with Feyenoord and I believe that he has found the way to be happy with his job by not thinking about how to become manager of Barcelona (his big dream) but enjoying working with players who could learn from his experience as a former player and to get results by making a team better. Koeman is a decent chap with a relaxed attitude but don't get fooled by this, he is a winner and players who don't deliver may have a problem with him. Koeman doesn't hesitate to name them in the press and nowadays not everyone can deal with that... If I had to choose between van Gaal and Koeman for Saints I believe Koeman is the right man given the circumstances though van Gaal would bring the club to the next level...

Koeman was great at Feyenoord but he also had some luck with great signings. We were going nowhere because of money problems and we had to play with our youngsters (Clasie, Martins Indi, de Vrij, Vilhena and so on). We weren't even able to buy a decent striker and so we got Guidetti on loan from ManC. Never heard of this dude but that changed really soon... Guidetti stupified our lot with his big mouth and his goals (hattricks against our arch enemy Ajax and against Twente). He was the winner the team needed to get the confidence and we finished second in the league. Koeman was also the right man in the right place, his career was also going nowhere after his echec at AZ Alkmaar but with Feyenoord he got a very young team that looked up to him and was willing to learn from such an experienced former player. He made his mark as a coach/manager by using remarkable tactics which payed off against better opponents. But in the end the success of every coach/manager depends on goals and Guidetti delivered them. Too bad his career is in the shambles now because of his health problems, we heard this weekend that Feyenoord believes the risk is too big to gamble with him. At the start of the second season Koeman got Pelle on loan as a replacement for Guidetti and we couldn't believe our ears: "Pelle, that loser from AZ Alkmaar? What the hell is Koeman and the club doing?" Well, you know the result, more than 50 goals in two seasons and a transfer to Saints. Where Pelle needs time to adjust to the PL, he started to score for Feyenoord right away and just like Guidetti he had the mindset of a winner who inspired the team. Pelle wanted to leave after his first season because there was a club in some desert in the Middle East that would pay him top dollar (at Feyenoord he earned 1 million before taxes...) but Feyenoord had bought him in the meantime and he had to stay. His second season was just as incredible as his first but there was a negative point also: Feyenoord became too dependable on Pelle, without Pelle we looked poor and Koeman had no plan B. Later on Koeman tried a 5-3-2 system a couple of times and that fitted our young defenders better and Louis van Gaal used this for the World Cup. In hindsight: we should have done better in Koeman's third and last year. The players were more experienced now and had played together for many years and the title was up for grabs as Ajax didn't play too well. Alas, Koeman didn't succeed to get the players on the championship level allthough he did everything possible to achieve this. But Koeman and Pelle will be remembered with honour in our history, hopefully it will be the same with Saints... I've mixed feelings about Clasie leaving. We lost so many players allready and he is the best midfielder we have. On the other hand I think he is ready for a move to the next level which would help him to become a better player. He deserves that too... He looks eager to leave Feyenoord and yesterday I read that Southampton is a serious option when Schneiderlin leaves. Porto is also running for him but their bid was too poor until now. Feyenoord wants at least 8 million for him and I think that's a fair price. But I have my doubts about Clasie in the PL, he is very small and considering the pace in the PL, I think he will be too tired after 30 minutes... Off course he has some nice qualities, he is able to play one touch football and he can create chances for attackers with his intelligent passing. It's just that I don't see him running after an opponent with his short legs, it would look like a toddler chasing after a balloon he lost... It would be better for him to move to Portugal first before entering the PL. That said: van Wolfswinkel did ok when he played for Sporting over there...

I do get your point but if the fans are not willing to stay patient with a new coach (and new players) to build up a team that is able to compete than you're getting nowhere, especially when you don't have the funds to keep on buying. Would be nice when Saints stays an example of the traditional way between all the bull***** in the PL. As a Feyenoord fan it's hard to admit but I enjoyed to see Ajax finishing off ManC twice in the Champions League. They don't spend money like idiots (the total amount of salaries within Ajax is 20 million...), they just make their players better. In the long time it will pay off...

I remember Alderweireld of his time with Ajax when he played together with Vertonghen. He was a decent player for them and he has a great shot (Ajax usually plays a system in which the central backs are supposed to move up front when possible) but I have my doubts about Alderweireld when it comes to real defending. In that way, it didn't surprise me that he mostly stayed on the bench at Atletico. I guess it all comes down to the system Koeman wants to play and which player fits in the best way. Considering that Koeman has said that Vlaar would fit in nicely, it would be strange when he settles for Alderweireld. It's a different kind of defender.

Why does Saints have no chance of getting Clasie? It looks like he wants to leave Feyenoord after we lost so many others and Feyenoord is willing to sell for the right prize. Until now only Porto made a bid but it was too low. Feyenoord wants 8 million and that would be no problem for Saints I suppose? To be honest, I don't believe that Clasie (just like Daley Blind from Ajax) is able to cope with the pace of the PL and besides that, he's rather small in comparence with the average player in the PL. I'm afraid he'll be overblown...

Don't know about Ings but I wouldn't spent my money on Guidetti or Castoignos if I were you. Feyenoord would love to bring Guidetti back to Rotterdam but they know about the illness he had some time ago and are not willing to take the risk for 2 or 3 million though we need a CA badly and we do have the cash... Castoignos is a mediocre CA who doesn't convince in the dutch league, why would you even consider him?

The first sentences are spot on Batman but Pelle did move all over the front line or created his own chances when playing for Feyenoord. His 50+ goals for us were mainly a result of his own abilities (and the childlike defenders over here in Holland) as our wingers (Boëtius and Schaken) are very poor when it comes to crossballs. Usually our defenders gave a long ball which Pelle controlled with his back to the goal and he would give the ball to the incoming midfielders (Clasie, Vilhena, Immers) who would set up a chance for him. I'm not sure but I don't think that this way of playing would be successful in the PL. Just like Pelle needs time to adjust to the pace, so does Koeman to find out the best system for his players in a different league with different standards. Pelle is definitely no Bergkamp or Suarez who were in a class of their own while playing in Holland but I would like to compare him with Wilfried Bony from Swansea who played for Vitesse in the dutch league. There were pundits who doubted if Bony could make it in the PL but he's getting there though it took some time. Give Pelle some credit (too bad to read here about idiots who don't support their player after only two games) and cheer him on! When it doesn't work out Feyenoord would gladly take him back as we can't find a decent CA...

Can't speak for all the Feyenoord fans but I don't think so. We're not that interested in national teams, it's all about Feyenoord... We know that the Eredivisie is much lower rated than the PL but I don't believe that this is the reason that Pelle wasn't invited thus far. I guess it's because Italy doesn't have much central attackers beside that clown Balotelli as we could see in the WC in Brazil so why not try Pelle just to see if he really got better after some bad years in Italy?

Precisely and keep in mind that Pelle has played in the Dutch league for 2 years and therefore isn't used to play against defenders who match his physique (or fysics?) and the pace of the game in the PL. I saw him struggling today because of the way Southampton played (especially in the first half) and you're right: he will contribute more to the team with teammates around him. There was just one moment he remembered me of the Pelle playing for Feyenoord: when he past the ball with his breast to Schneiderlin (I believe) who failed to score. Pelle is always aware of the players around him and he will give them the ball when they are in a better position than he is. And yes, he does have a great shot and he can shoot with both feet (though his right one is better). Hope he will score a goal like this one soon for Saints: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slgIK6hOXag, that will give him the confidence he needs! Too bad Saints didn't get a result today as they were the better team in the second half.

Precisely and keep in mind that Pelle has played in the Dutch league for 2 years and therefore isn't used to play against defenders who match his physique (or fysics?) and the pace of the game in the PL. I saw him struggling today because of the way Southampton played (especially in the first half) and you're right: he will contribute more to the team with teammates around him. There was just one moment he remembered me of the Pelle playing for Feyenoord: when he past the ball with his breast to Schneiderlin (I believe) who failed to score. Pelle is always aware of the players around him and he will give them the ball when they are in a better position than he is. And yes, he does have a great shot and he can shoot with both feet (though his right one is better). Hope he will score a goal like this one soon for Saints: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slgIK6hOXag, that will give him the confidence he needs! Too bad Saints didn't get a result today as they were the better team in the second half.

Don't know how Koeman would describe Rickie Lambert but I don't doubt that Ronald would prefer Pelle if he would have to choose.