van Hanegem

Interesting to see if Puel will prove Koeman was wrong about the youth players... And hopefully there will be some real reinforcements for him to work with.

You're welcome JRM. The first possiblity to show our dissatisfaction towards the EU will be the next General Election in march 2017. But I doubt it will make any difference as most Dutchmen want to stay in the EU. They do want reforms of course as they don't like what's happening in Brussels either but getting out is a bridge too far. I can understand why they want to stay in the EU as the Dutch economy relies in a big way on the German market and taking part in the euro doesn't help either. But hearing France and Germany calling out for more federalism now Britain has left (well, let's suppose it's really going to happen...) and talking about a european army and european taxes, the dislike of the EU might grow. Our PM Mark Rutte has said he doesn't want this but without Cameron to back him up he is going to have a hard time, especially when the european commision led by Juncker and the european parliament play hardball and Rutte doesn't have a sturdy backbone. I'm sure he's hoping that Britain will make a u-turn and won't leave the EU.

I wouldn't say that the automation of societies is more important than the current EU question as these things are tied one way or another but it's surely interesting... Shurlock's comment is probably right, jobs may disappear but there will be new jobs (maintenance, servicing etc.) instead, just like it happened before. However, I don't believe there will be enough jobs left to hold on to the current economic model, especially not with all the migration going on. There's a population explosion in several parts of Africa and as there's no future there for many of them, they are willing to put their lives at risk to come to Europe as economic refugees (not to be confused with refugees seeking shelter for the war in their countries...). When the EU fails to get a grip on this migration (they're trying now with rewards for countries that take these people back and penalties for those who are unwilling) we're creating a new underclass of uneducated people who are not capable to take part in western society. I've mentioned "this is London" by Ben Judah in another topic before, you should really read it to get the picture of what's going on. The world outlined in the sci-fi classic "Blade Runner" does spring to mind... I have some friends who started up a company in 3D printing a few years ago and it's really exciting to see where this will lead to. There are printers for consumers already on the market but these are still expensive and do not offer that many possibilities. But that's going to change of course and eventually you will have a 3D printer next to the computer you once insisted you would never have in your home. Imagine what will happen with mass production in China when the western world is going to print their own t-shirts, bike parts etc. etc. I guess the Chinese government would be wise to restart the program in which you get a radio as a reward for sterilisation. Well, these days it has to be an i-Pad off course... There you have it Charlie, the only answer to automation of the western societies my limited brain can think of is a firm decrease in world-population. Usually we need a full scale war or pestilence to achieve that, let's hope the human kind has learned its lessons...

I agree, it's a good thing that France and Germany are tied one way or another but it worked out well in the EEC and Nato so why do we need a EU with all the power it has today? When it really comes to our safety I'll put my trust in Nato (read the Americans) rather than our European Parliament which utterly failed with Yugoslavia as you might remember. Being a former Dutch Air Force officer in that period it's possible I'm slightly biased on this subject but fact is that the EU (especially Germany which was looking for profit while the British and French were opposed) stirred things up because they recognised Slovenia and Croatia in order expand the EU and in the end we needed the Americans (again) for the rescue. The result of this EU politics: 200.000 people died, 4 million refugees and uncountable rapes. Can you believe my stomach was turning when I saw the members of the EU parliament Hans van Baalen and Guy Verhofstadt appearing on a square in Kiev a couple of years ago, shouting that the EU will back the Ukrainians in their struggle for independance? As if Putin would agree with this... No Charlie, when it comes to safety we're better off without this lot in Brussels who are unable to understand geopolitics or aren't able to execute some sort of strategy. You could say we need a European body to organise things for the many nation states which are part of the EU these days but in my opinion it should never have come this far. The EU is trying to reconcile the irreconcilable with all these different countries with different cultures and identities, the free movement of people sounds nice in theory but when the economy goes into decline things start to get real nasty as we've seen before. The EU politicians fail to take this seriously, they probably believe it will all blow over but it won't. Like you said: the unlucky ones need to blame some scapegoat. Looking at the near future in which robotization is gaining more and more ground, jobs will disappear and a lot of people will be out of work. So there has to be a new economic model (or is it frame?) which will see to it that people are contributing to society in a different way which has to be funded by those who do have a job. I don't believe that the average Dutchman, German or Englishman is willing to pay for someone from Bulgaria, Poland or Romania when he already has to pay for his countryman, it's simply not affordable. The EU may try to force her will upon the citizens of the many different nation states but I guess you'll agree with me that the more they do this, the more distance and hate they'll get in return. As you can see these days in many parts of Europe... In my opinion the EU and the politicians in the nation states fail to explain why the current powerfull and big EU is needed while the EEC was just ok. Many citizens don't feel represented by all these people in Brussels who are accused of being there for themselves and not the citizens, I can't blame them as it is clear to me that a lot of EU officials are not really interested in what the people feel. Mind you, I don't dislike internationalism. I've been around the globe and if it was up to me we would have one world order and no more nation states. But that's just wishfull thinking...

In my opinion the current EU is a monstrosity which is getting out of control. Never mind the lack of democracy, the sheer fact that no one has a clue where we are going with the monetary policy of the ECB worries me much more. As you'll probably know the ECB operates indepently from the individual members of the EU who don't have any influence on the policies of signor Draghi. This chap is spending 80 billions each month buying debentures and other debts from EU countries including Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal, countries with a national debt exceeding 100% of their GDP... Where does Draghi get the money from? Well, I guess he's just printing it like the FED in the US likes to do and I don't have to tell you that the US is basically bankrupt. So, what will happen when Draghi's bubble will be punctured eventually? In that case it's no longer the individual member state which is going to bleed, no, we're all are... The Netherlands have already paid 30 billions to support banks who put their money in Greece (I bet the UK paid even far more as they are a bigger member of the club) and I don't want us to pay again for countries who are drowning in their own overconsumption with citizens unwilling to pay taxes. I don't know if you are aware of the consequences of the introduction of the Euro as you still get paid in pounds but I can tell you life in Holland has become much more expensive. Within a couple of years many things became twice as expensive (when you count in the former Dutch guilder). To make it simple: a glass of beer costed two guilders and 50 cents and within a year it was 2 euro's and 50 cents which is the equivalent of 5 old guilders and 50 cents. Or take a Volkswagen Golf which costed 25.000 guilders before 2002 and soon afterwards 22.000 euro's or more than 48.000 old guilders. Of course this was not the case with the monthly paychecks, when you earned 5.000 guilders each month before 2002 you get 2.272 euro's afterwards... Recently there has been a petition for a national enquiry to seek out what the introduction has costed the Dutch. Guess what? politicians were not interested because it was "politically not opportune". Off the record some said there won't be a euro in 10 years time... The thing is that there's no criticism of the euro allowed in Holland, students report that they would commit career suicide when they would be telling their real thoughts about the euro. Scholarships, international conferences and professors, all would turn their back on them. Or take our Ministry of Finance which had a committee working on exit strategies when the next euro crisis would happen. Our Minister Dijsselbloem ordered this committee to stop with their task. Yup, bury your head in the sand, what you don't see doesn't exist... I could go on and on (what to think of the fact that the EU isn't capable to control the mass immigration which is splitting the societies everywhere) but I guess you get my point. There's no politician who can explain why the EU is a good thing for us without talking nonsense. Usually they start talking about trade but we don't need the EU for this, that could all be settled in the EEA, the EFTA or even the WTO. Why do you believe the EU is necessary Charlie?

Why do I have the impression that eurosceptics might believe that a fall of the current EU might be positive for the fate of their own nation? Surely not because they're all uneducated xenophobic racists who are all unreasonable fearmongers believing the lies of Nigel Farrage I hope?

The harmonisation is indeed sold to us as being more flexible so someone who works in different countries is able to add up his different pension plans. Nothing wrong with that off course but then again you don't know what else is behind it and after the way we were screwed with the euro, there is no trust in the EU. About the pensions in the UK: it might be the other way around, Greeks and French being happy they don't have to back up your funds anymore...

I'm not an economist but he sounds convincing. What details did he "forget" to mention and would be in favour of remain?

When you leave London out I guess Holland is even a lot worse than the UK Whitey, except for the infrastructure off course. Yet I wouldn't like to live anywhere else, especially not France. There are too many Frenchmen there...

Living in the UK must be hell with millions of xenophobic, racist and ignorant morons. You must be glad you have the opportunity to leave for Ireland...

The EU is planning to harmonise the various pension systems in Europe in order to guarantee that every member state is capable to keep the pension plans running. Consider yourself lucky there's no chance you will ever have to pay for the pension plans of Greece or France...

Though we do have our own David Cameron (Mark Rutte he's called) it is not likely that Holland will follow soon Hutch, the only important politician who likes to have a referendum is Wilders but he will never get enough support from other major parties who are all supporting the EU. Besides, most Dutchmen want to stay in the EU or so the polls said today. However, the Dutch were regularly backed by the British (Rutte and Cameron share the same ideas...) in the EU when they had to face the Germans and French on several matters. Now we are on our own and it's clear that Rutte can't do it alone as Holland is a minor player by itself. You know how the Dutch care about money and when it's going to cost us more and more to stay in the EU, the sentiment about the EU will change eventually. Next week we will hear what the EU has decided regarding the harmonisation of the pension systems in the EU. The Dutch have one of the best systems in the world and the EU are drooling about the 1.400 billion euros our pension funds have. I reckon they will be careful at this moment not to add fuel to the fires but if they're not... Hopefully this British philosopher gets it right and we will join the British in the end!

This will be a good thing for football in general, British youngsters will get more chances to develop and youngsters from abroad will have to stay in their own country so their talent won't be lost to big clubs who are not really interested in them but need them for their youth academy in order to be allowed to spend more cash on players they really want. I'm all for it but I expect the FA to change the rules so nothing will change in the end. Alas...

Not going to happen I'm afraid, no way the Dutch government is allowing a referendum on this. PM Rutte even said today that there is no wish amongst the Dutch citizens to leave the EU... The basterd! Word from Brussels is that Britain is going to pay for this mess and that upcoming negotiations will be extreme hard in order to show other members there's no gain in leaving the EU. This stance from all those overpayed bureaucrats should be reason enough to take apart the current EU. I feel sorry for all those British citizens who are going to pay the bill for Brexit but at least they will be free from some "masters" they do not know or didn't vote for. Like some old lady asked: "did so many of us die in the war to be ruled by foreigners in the end?" I have little hope that the EU will reform but if it's going to happen than it will be due to brexiteers. Thanks for trying!

Thanks for your reply Bucktootim, I guess most British citizens have the same dislike about the rapid growth of the EU as the Dutch, Belgians, Germans, French etc. have. Problem is that these citizens don't have a say in the way the EU is expanding other than to vote in their general elections and we all know this doesn't make any difference as politicians go their own way in this matter so now we're "connected" to parts from eastern Europe the majority of western Europeans can't relate to. Ukraine, the most corrupted country on the continent is next and eventually Turkey will follow when Erdogan or his successor plays it smart. Imo it's not possible to stop this process from within the EU, in order to stop guys like Verhofstad c.s. there must be a breakaway from key members from the EU. The British now have the ultimate opportunity to do so although I've heard some Dutch europhiles say that the Brits can sod off as the EU train can't be stopped... On the other hand it is tempting to bring down the nation states and progress into one European order in which it doesn't make a difference from which country you're from. It will take some sacrifices as the wealth from the west must be shared with the poor countries but eventually the whole of Europe will be a better place though it will take some generations to get there. Are you willing to sacrifice things like NHS, state pensions etc. for Europe to be a better place for each citizen in the future?

I guess you can say you're in a catch 22 situation in which you are screwed if you stay in the monstrous EU and f*cked when Brexit really happens (which I don't believe it will). But as a Dutchman I'm a bit jealous the British do get a chance to vote for the way they are going to be screwed, the Dutch government would never ever let this happen as they know the outcome... It strikes me though that all of you are just looking for "what's in it for us" (immigration, economics). I haven't read all 68 pages but it looks like not one of you has an opinion on the European ideal (a federal Europe which brings down the nation states in order to bring trade, safety and democracy to each corner of Europe enabling each citizen to prosper). Maybe it's because the remain camp and the leave camp like to compromise each other the whole time but if you look beyond that, does anyone feel he's part of the European ideal or that he is a European rather than British? Just wondering...

Vilhena stays at Feyenoord, he just signed a new 2-year contract. Some on this forum would have liked him to play for the Saints but in my opinion he's not ready for the PL at this moment. Good decision from him and his father to stay...

Don't be a Calimero, take of the egg shell hat...

Yup, probably Koeman believed it was the closest he could get with Southampton for CL qualification. The Saints won't do silly things like so many other clubs who are throwing cash around so you have to accept the fact it's not likely that the Saints will make the final step to the top. One could hope for a Leicester scenario but who believes to witness this stunt again in the near future? I guess it's best for both that Koeman left but it should have been better handled by the club.

That would mean Koeman had to sign a longterm deal with the Saints and apparently he didn't want to do that. I'm curious why he didn't want to stay on for a couple of years more, it won't be the money as he would earn far more than enough with the Saints. Maybe it is ambition, to have the chance to compete for a place to qualify for the CL and that way working on his ultimate dream: Barcelona. I don't think he's the right man for Barcelona considering the way he likes his teams to play but a man without dreams is a man...

No, they didn't. They could have reported that they didn't want Koeman to see out his contract for only one year because of their plans for the future and that Koeman was unwilling to sign a new longterm contract so it was better for both of them to split up now without hard feelings. No damage done to either side and that would be the correct thing to do. Maybe they could even have made an agreement with Koeman not to use his knowledge about the contracts of key players from the Saints. It wouldn't surprise me when Koeman or his new club starts negotiations with some of them just to take the p*ss out of Les Reed & Co. But then again, every player is for sale right?

I reckon Koeman is telling the truth in this interview. It was the same situation at Feyenoord where he did stay for three years. He could have signed for another year but early on he told the club he was going to leave after the third year and he was proud to leave the club through the front door instead of sneaking out. When he says he wanted to see out his contract with the Saints I for one believe him as he has learned the hard way (leaving PSV for Valencia) it's better to leave the club in a good way. And yes, Koeman has earned enough millions in his career to be financially independent so it's rubbish to say he chooses a club like Everton because of the money bags waiting for him. The Saints should fire the man responsible for this story.

Only 8 more days to go... Europe won't be the same without you lot, it might get organised you know...

"Here is a man with a history of honouring contracts. Indeed, a man of honour in so many ways, a very classy individual, who generates great respect from all those lucky enough to be around him at Saints." This is clearly not true as Koeman has left clubs early before (e.g. when he left for Valencia and said that "you have to jump on a train passing by sometimes"). I can understand the emotions though.

Staying on for one more year when everyone knows he will leave at the end wouldn't do any good for the Saints. Players usually tend to get more relaxed about things when they know their manager leaves. Fans start screaming when results are poor for a couple of weeks and sponsors start to ask questions to the board who then are under pressure to get a new coach in before the end of the season. I've seen this too many times and so has Koeman. Better to leave when things are great than with his tail between his legs. Off course there had to be an alternative otherwise he would have stayed on but surely there had to be some clubs who were interested in him so it was a question of time. Be happy with the good time you had with Koeman, he's just a passer-by and the Saints march on.