DuncanRG

They believe in denying a right to homosexuals. That is homophobic. They have every right to believe that, but should admit that it is homophobic.

And? Civil partnerships only exist to try and appease people who want real equality. If this was really an issue about marriage being exclusive to the Church, and these people really believed in equality, then gay marriage would be no skin off their nose. State marriage would be the problem regardless of whether it's a gay couple or a straight couple getting one. Both, effectively - upholding the teachings means discriminating against people who wish to remarry. They should still oppose state marriage. And indeed, if they're upholding their teachings they should oppose homosexuality as well. Their teachings are homophobic.

It's already secular. Straight people can get married in town halls! They should fight that instead.

They're allowed to hold it, but it is homophobic. They should be honest about that.

Agreed on the xenophobia point and I'd never call someone xenophobic for holding that view. Disagreeing with gay marriage means agreeing with prejudice against gay people as regards marriage. You seek to deny them that right. It doesn't mean you want to round up all the gays and sterilise them but that doesn't mean it's not homophobic. Most people see it as upholding Christian values but these Christian values are homophobic. It's like saying you disagree with women being allowed to vote, because it's always been the exclusive realm of men, then claiming you aren't a sexist. Traditions are not free of prejudice just because they're traditions. I only asked the question because you answered a post accusing them of racism/xenophonia by saying they've got 'warts'. I didn't say they were racist or xenophobic, just that if they were (hence me saying hypothetically) those characteristics should not be overlooked as 'warts'.

And AC Milan supposedly, in the case of Astori.

Was it one of their 'big interviews'? They normally put those up on iPlayer in full.

It can be easy to judge centre halves just by the number of tackles they throw in or how strong they are in the air because those things are easier to notice when you're paying attention to the ball. Ferdinand's strength has always been positioning. He just knows where danger is, where to stand and how to position his body to best neutralize it. Losing some of his pace has meant that he's in bigger trouble when he does get caught out but he's still top class.

True enough, but do we (hypothetically) accept racism or xenophobia as 'warts'? I hope that's not what you're insinuating

Straight couples can already get married in a town hall if they like, the equal marriage bill is about changing the legal definition and allowing gay couples to do that as well. Churches don't have to allow it but they will now be able to if they so wish. They couldn't do that before! I didn't say UKIP voters are racists and I certainly never said a thing about 'rabid racists'. Most supporters/sympathisers I've met, however, carry a fair amount of prejudice, if not in a 'burn the black people, kick them out!' way. Perhaps what I should have said earlier which I didn't is that this is in my experience.

What am I making up? They're against gay marriage. They want to defend traditional marriage, but traditional marriage is homophobic. They want to keep homophobia in marriage. You can argue why it ought to stay (traditional values, changing the definition etc) but it is still homophobia and UKIP are still fighting for it to remain part of the institution of marriage.

Damn. Not over til it's over but a real shame if it's true. I've watched a few Cagliari matches recently and they both look fantastic.

Pretty much. It's protest party policy at the minute - don't expect all of that to stay if they ever grow powerful enough. They didn't take a single seat from Labour on Thursday and the Greens still have far more councillors than UKIP.

It's not my argument, though by voting for them you are most certainly supporting homophobia.

Flat tax, anti-marriage equality, "sceptical about the existence of man-made climate change", seventy-seven billion pounds worth of cuts and that lovely bit about 'political correctness' which in my experience tends to be a phrase wheeled out by the guy down the pub who loves a racist joke and slaps the barmaid's arse. No thanks!

Is there anything liberal about the coalition's economic policy? Welfare and NHS reforms?

True enough, that will have alienated a lot of voters. I think most on the left, though, view marriage equality as the bare minimum rather than something particularly impressive. If you ask me Cameron pushed it through according to his own conscience rather than as an attempt to move to the left. He's certainly taken welfare and the NHS further right than anyone since Thatcher.

I don't know whether I want their next manager to be an instant success or not. On the one hand it'd be great to see a more diverse set of title-winners but on the other it would be absolutely nauseating the amount of crap fans would spout about the manager, as if Ferguson's success isn't a complete one-off.

Can't say I heard anything. I live with a die-hard Bradford fan and I've seen more of them than anyone else outside the PL including a few games in person. He's head and shoulders above most players in that league but nowhere close to that sort of move yet. If we were to get him he would have to be 'one for the future', but he's 22 and I imagine we've got our own strikers that we'd want to bring through instead. I can't see us bringing somebody in from elsewhere when they're so far from the first team.

I'm learning that pretty quickly. Gotta try and fit in haven't you!

Forren was transfer committee, no doubt about it.

I'm merely contesting the use of the term 'open door' without clarification. Misinformation about who can and can't get into this country is such a big problem on both sides. I don't think UKIP are a racist party, and certainly not because of their immigration policy. I think bigotry of all kinds is rife in a significant portion of their members, representatives and supporters, and the party doesn't do enough to get them out.

Let's not pretend 503 million people are showing up on our doorstep!

Possibly.

Not as far as I'm aware, but there are limits on immigration from everywhere else in the world. 'Open door' is an absolute term that shouldn't be used lightly. The door is closed on many, many people.