Wes Tender

I believe that all of these deals were substantially rolling over the EU deals and that in the New Year, we will work on improving them over what the EU had. So a bit premature to talk in terms of comparisons on projections at this stage, isn't it? When you say "the Government reckoned", you mean the Treasury, I presume. They have reckoned a lot that proved to be wrong during the past few years. And forecasts for periods like 15 years are as worthless as long range weather forecasts.

I just read the good news and couldn't wait to share it. The completely hopeless Liz Truss has reached another national trade agreement, this time with Mexico. They are yet another member state that is part of the huge trading block, CPTTP, alongside Singapore, Japan and Vietnam, with whom we also have recent trade agreements. She said that we would seek to join the CPTTP ourselves next year. Great news, eh?

It's a figure of speech, Badger, like vassal colony. Do you refute that there would be subjugation of the UK if the EU were to have us under the jurisdiction of their court? The colony state bit I pinched from Verhofstadt.

Frost called for a positive approach to negotiations, and suggested that the UK to adopt a Norway-style transitional arrangement. In that scenario, the UK would remain in the European single market, a free trade agreement between EU countries. He said: "We should say that we intend, after exit, to retain this status for say five years and to use that period to reflect and if necessary negotiate a Free Trade Agreement like Canada’s, if that is what we want to do, or to keep Norway status if we don’t." " I've highlighted all the bits that indicate that Frost's view of the path that he thought we ought to take (all those years ago), were very much predicated on there being more than one path that could be taken. He favoured this path, but soon after came to recognise that it was not viable because of our stated aim to leave the SM and CU. 2. He clearly says "for say" five years, which to most of the population would mean quite possibly hypothetically up to five years, but maybe not five years. I reiterate though, why are you raking over old coals as if you have a mental obsession with it?.

I think that condemnation has more to do with them wishing us to remain subjugated as a colony of a Federal European super state, than on their desire to want what is best for their country. Brexiteers also want what is best for our country too of course, and as a result get called all sorts of names. But no doubt you don't find that situation strange though, do you?

Lord Frost only took up his post as our trade negotiator with the EU a year ago, so WSS is perfectly correct to ask you where you have been hibernating the past year. Your Norway obsession is addling your ability to think clearly about other scenarios.

I see that the infantile name calling has returned https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Doris What on earth are you going on about now, Timmy? I thought you weren't going to respond to my posts. Couldn't resist it eh? And foolish enough to raise the subject of the Norway option, which makes you look doubly stupid.

The pathetically desperate straw clutching from you has to go back in history over four and a half years, for you to suggest that an opinion position taken then has any relevance today. I accept that you have not moved on from the reality of current events since then, because you are like a Japanese soldier in a remote jungle who does not realise the war finished years ago. But do you accept that Lord Frost has moved on from that position to accept that on numerous occasions subsequently, it was the Conservative and Leave position in the referendum campaign and in their election manifestos that we would be leaving the single market and the customs union? At least he has the intelligence to acknowledge that leaving the single market and customs union ruled out the Norway option, even if you haven't.

You could go to Australia and uphold the proud tradition of the whinging poms. You're pretty good in that department.

Further good news today - the democratic impetus in Norway seems to have swung behind them wanting to change the basis of their deal with the EU.

You're verging on the hysterical in your assertion that the government by their attempts to honour the majority decision in a democratic referendum are doing their best to destroy us in any possible way. You're also really naive in suggesting that for example the Scots would not campaign to leave the Union if we had not voted to leave the EU. Arguably our international relationships will be improved as we negotiate our diplomatic, economic and defence relationships as an independent sovereign nation instead of as a colony of a European federal state. Most other countries will admire this passage to our own self-determination, our ability to take control over our own destiny. As an arch-remoaner, it comes as no surprise at all to me that you cannot see what the appeal is in leaving the EU. I won't bother raking over old coals disparaging the shortcomings of your "superb deal" that we supposedly had with the EU. I'd only be wasting my time, as you obviously believe it to be a perfectly faultless arrangement, and wonder how the electorate could possibly be so thick as not to share your unremitting love for the failing protectionist enterprise. Heath hasn't escaped blame for our history in the EEC, neither has any subsequent PM, especially Major and Blair. Cameron was weak but deserves gratitude at least for promising the referendum. May was even weaker and even more inept and the EU must really be kicking themselves that they didn't accept her surrender Chequers deal. But May deserves even more gratitude for her terminal uselessness for paving the way for Boris and the stonking majority mandate to get Brexit done. As to our future? We will thrive outside of the EU, which is what terrifies them.

Top trolling of the Remoaner element on here, GM, especially those who have never been able to completely accept the referendum decision to leave the EU and who are still bleating about it years afterwards. The EU's efforts to issue a punishment deal to us in a vain attempt to keep us as a vassal colony in order to send a message to others who might wish to follow us out, has brought us to the verge of leaving without a FTA. Despite the massive trade surplus they have with us, they insist that leaving on WTO terms will hurt us more than it hurts them for some reason. Logically therefore, they should not be that bothered about us leaving without a FTA then, as that will send the clearest message possible to other member states of the dire consequences of leaving, wouldn't it? Or are they shitting themselves that without their ability to control aspects of our freedom to govern ourselves completely without their interference, we will put in place policies on taxation, trade and investment that will make us a major competitor right on their doorstep? Whereas officially and legally we will have left the Withdrawal Agreement period on 31st December, the continuation of talks following expired deadlines, the latest being Sunday, fills me with some concern. We should not budge on our three red lines and ought to make it plain that talks will only continue on condition that the EU are willing to make the concessions on those three conditions. Boris has intimated that that is his position, but it could be that the EU in their typically underhand fashion, will try to hide a verbal acquiescence into a trap hidden in reams of pages of legalese waffle, without the time for it to be gone over with a fine tooth comb. It would be far better at this late stage to stop this charade now, go WTO and leave the door open to continue talks in the New Year when we would not be rushed into rash decisions based on the urgency of deadlines. Even if a rushed deal were to be pushed through at this eleventh hour, as is traditional EU strategy, it would have to be agreed by all EU member states, and unless we roll over and allow the French, Dutch, Danes and Germans in particular to continue plundering our fish stocks at CFP levels, the arrogantly stupid French will more than likely scupper the deal.

Sure enough, they have scored their late penalty, with time to go and win the match

And I've just seen that Liverpool's next match is against Spurs. It's getting interesting at the top, at least for a short while longer

For sure. Also, come on Brighton, beat Leicester later

Great that Spurs only got a draw, so we're only two points off them at the top at the moment. Surely Fulham can't maintain their lead over Liverpool to put us one point behind them?

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/12160129/saints-pile-more-misery-onto-sheff-utd A walk in the park. Apart from a ten minute period at the start of the second half, we looked comfortable throughout. Sky only mentioned the "L" word in the 85th minute. Great performances throughout the team. McCarthy was largely a spectator, as the back four were very solid, especially Vestergaard with another MOTM performance. Both full backs got up the pitch, linking up well with Walcott and Armstrong, who also had good games. As usual, the Romeu and Ward-Prowse partnership has a great understanding of each others' play and positioning. This is the first choice team which is gelling really well and getting the results because of it. Knowing Ralph's way of coaching, you can bet that the subs bench are also well versed in how the team plays and can therefore slot in seamlessly. Today's substitutions were spot on and having replaced Walcott, Redmond scored a great goal. The paths to the forwards are now many and varied, with service coming via the full backs getting well forward whenever possible, the two players forward of them either getting to the byeline, or cutting into the area, or good passes towards the area from Romeu and Ward-Prowse. Increasingly another option is via Vestergaard striding forward, ball at feet. Additionally we are becoming very good at set pieces. Ings was off the score sheet today, but always add a great deal to the team with his all out effort. If we can continue to play like this for the rest of the season, we should be playing in Europe at the end of it.

Yes, I'm kicking myself for not doing that, but I was doubtful as to whether anybody would be gullible enough to take it, bearing in mind the improbability of there being that outcome.

So your post about my prediction record was groundless then. But one mustn't forget of course my being correct in predicting that we would not go for the Norway trade option with the EU post referendum. That was no special feat though, as most reasonably well informed people would have realised that the Norway option was never a realistic proposition.

The roll-over is the beginning, improvements to them will take place after the 1st January. I accept that you will not be pleased at the speed and quantity that these deals are being completed, or that they will likely be a path towards far bigger deals with the blocs that these countries belong to, hence the usual petty insults.

Good of you to quote to my post. That way Timmy can read it and respond while he supposedly has me on ignore.

That most useless of Ministers in Boris' government, Liz Truss, has somehow managed to get yet another trade deal done, this time with Vietnam. I await the usual tiresome guff about how miniscule it is and how we shouldn't have bothered with it. But as we sign deals with Asian Countries, we increase the chances of joining their trade blocs.

Which predictions that I have made have not come to pass?

You brought up Fox, Davis and Boris and don't seem to like it that Davis and Boris resigned because they were shafted by May . It isn't a good idea to bring up May or Robbins as some sort of shining example of how to go about doing a trade deal with the EU. Robbins would have found it hard to negotiate a contract for the supply of Civil Service pencils and together they would find it hard making a profit from running a whelk stall. May, the worst PM in modern British political history.

I respect your right to your opinions both before the vote and after. However, whereas you say that your current position has been influenced by what you perceive to have been lies told by the leave campaign, you choose to overlook all the lies that were told by the remain side and project fear. Your choice. It shouldn't have come as any surprise to you at all that the EU would be robust in trying to keep their single market intact and attempting to keep us a vassal state part of it. That was obvious right from the very start, from the 24th June 2016. You also appear to believe that the SNP would not have kept on about gaining their independence from our union to the same degree (where they have Parliamentary representation and also their own assembly) They are perversely happy to leave one union in order to stay in another. I think that an independent Scotland is increasingly less likely if there is no trade deal, as the Scots will have to pay too high a price to rejoin, giving up their fishery waters, joining the Eurozone and Schengen, having to run their own economy and raise their own taxes, with the additional possibility of Shetland and the Orkneys leaving them and taking what is left of their oil and gas resources with them, (those resources being of rapidly declining value anyway due to their lack of green credentials). As for Ireland, they have massively shot themselves in the foot allowing themselves to be used as a weapon against the UK by the EU, and now they are shitting themselves over the effect that no deal will have on their economy and the tariffs that will be placed on their exports to us. They have also been caned by the EU in their Covid budget, paying I believe the highest per capita contribution of any member state, I believe. I can foresee the Irish leaving the EU, forming a mutually beneficial trade deal with the UK that does away with any border with goods between NI/UK and them. They can then join any future trade deal along CANZUK lines. The fact that you didn't vote either way didn't affect the result, so nothing to worry about.