Wes Tender

Are you grown up enough to argue against my opinion, explaining why you consider it democratic to ignore a referendum decision even before it has been implemented? Have the Lib Dumbs not in the past couple of days decided that promising to revoke Article 50 is a vote loser? Do you believe that Swinson stands any chance of becoming PM? Come on, give it your best shot, Grandad.

Yeah, isn't it disgusting how biased the BBC, the Guardian, Sky, The Mirror, The Not Independent and others are towards the Tories? You sound like a Momentum extremist.

No it wasn't.

So you're an anti-democracy Lib Dumb then. They see no point in a third referendum on our EU membership, because they wouldn't honour it anyway, so what was the point in having it if they wouldn't abide by the decision, they reason. So they go straight to overturning the decision before it has even been enacted, and have the brass neck to have "Democrats" in their party title. Now finally realising that it isn't the vote winner they anticipated, they are back-tracking to the laughably so called "people's vote", but because of their previous stance, nobody can believe a word they say. As it has always been, it is easy to promise the earth if they have zero chance of being elected as the government. The stand-out comedy moment of the election so far has been the girl Swinson claiming that she would be the next Prime Minister.

Is this opinion of yours based on your possession of a single brain cell?

Corbyn's scare stories about the NHS being up for sale to the Yanks has been comprehensively debunked as a load of rubbish, primarily by Andrew Neil, but also Guido Fawkes and others. This article also does a good hatchet job on Corbyn's lies:- https://brexitcentral.com/jeremy-corbyns-claim-that-the-nhs-is-up-for-sale-in-post-brexit-us-trade-talks-does-not-stack-up/ As she summarises, leaking documents marked "Official - Sensitive (UK Eyes only)" isn't a good touch, and is bound to raise eyebrows in the USA as to the implications for our national security.

Which goes to show how terminally useless the Vicar's daughter was, the worst Tory Party leader ever and probably also the worst PM too. A majority like the one predicted, if it happened, would be plenty enough to get Brexit over the line and give us a stronger hand in negotiating a decent FT deal before the end of next year. Once Brexit is done, it will be very difficult to overturn it within a decade, so if the FTPA remains in place, there is another four years from then to build on it. All sorts of things might happen post election with the opposition parties, including the formation of new ones based on factional alliances following the splintering of existing ones.

Another devastating dissection of Labour's NHS attack on the Tories by Andrew Neil, this time tearing Barry Gardiner to shreds. Robert Buckland the Tory Justice Minister did far better, and is a far safer pair of hands than his opposite number Richard Burgon, but nowhere near as entertaining.

When discussing time frames in the Referendum saga, everything is relative regarding timing and is judged on whether it is either pro or anti-Brexit. Pro-Brexit, and all the remoaners try their hardest to stretch it out, extending deadline after deadline ad nauseam. Pro-remain, such as Benn's Surrender Act, and that can go straight through the readings and the HOL in a day, no problem. Of course the Brexit WA is a bit more complicated than Benn's surrender Act, but then most of the remoaners think that hardly anything in it had changed from May's Vassal State deal, which had had plenty of time to be scrutinised, three times in fact. You know damned well that the Remoaners would have delayed and amended the bill out of recognition, Gavyn, so this excuse of too short a time frame is a red herring. Who cares what the wreckers thought about it? Boris was always going to go for an election if feasible, rather than let that happen.

Didn't the Plymouth Council do this previously and blame it on an administration error then too? How many times do they have to break the law before somebody is held to account for it? Surely the incompetent person/s should be sacked, or at the very least transferred to some other department where they have no scope for interference in the election process.

Whoosh

Whoosh

Where did Trader suggest that Brexit is whatever can command a Parliamentary majority? He didn't. Typical of your MO to attempt to argue against something that somebody didn't even say.

Where did Trader suggest that Brexit is whatever can command a Parliamentary majority? He didn't. Typical of your MO to attempt to argue against something that somebody didn't even say.

You are only schooling me in your narcissistic, tiny little fantasy world, Gavin. But whatever makes you happy, even if it isn't real, eh?

You are only schooling me in your narcissistic, tiny little fantasy world, Gavin. But whatever makes you happy, even if it isn't real, eh?

Define Brexit and distinguish it from Brino.

Define Brexit and distinguish it from Brino.

How is it disingenuous and dishonest? With the last Parliament packed with remoaners intent on thwarting Brexit and three and a half years having passed as a result, it is a slogan that resonates with over half of the electorate at least; those that you arrogantly label as sheep. That it annoys the hell out of you is a bonus, Gavin.

How is it disingenuous and dishonest? With the last Parliament packed with remoaners intent on thwarting Brexit and three and a half years having passed as a result, it is a slogan that resonates with over half of the electorate at least; those that you arrogantly label as sheep. That it annoys the hell out of you is a bonus, Gavin.

The penny finally drops with a clang, Soggy. Him and Clark both, although to be fair to Clark, at least he hasn't stooped as low as to call on Conservatives to vote for the Lib Dumbs, as far as I'm aware

As you say, there is still time before the election for the political landscape to change. However, what your response is very light on, is a defence of your assertion that the Tory Party is starting to resemble a right wing cult. It simply isn't. As I said, supporting Brexit does not make the party right wing. You deflect from your argument that the Tories are a right wing cult by claiming that Labour is becoming a political movement. Aren't all political parties political movements? Whether Labour were capable of appointing a leader more electable than Corbyn, depends on whether their membership could purge the party of the extreme left-wing Momentum activists who hold sway over it. It is a bit futile indulging in whataboutery; the situation is what it is. If Labour loses ignominiously, there will be pressure on them to replace Corbyn with a more moderate leader, but if the membership appoints another leftie, then the formation of a breakaway Blairite even newer New Labour Party is on the cards. Just as Cameron's Tories were close to Blair's Labour, which in turn was Tory-lite, this new Party would be close to where Boris is apart from it being pro-remain. But then again, if Boris wins a substantial majority, Brexit happens and the remain faction becomes increasingly irrelevant.

It seems that although you infer that you follow politics, you have little understanding of the position the Tory Party holds in its current manifestation, regarding it being more right wing than historically. I think that you might be confused in your thinking because like Soggy, you make the mistake of labelling those who support our leaving of the EU as being right wing, so if that is indeed what you base your premise on, your own intellect is in question. You ask why the likes of Clarke and others presumably such as Major, Gauke, Grieve, Heseltine, Soubry etc, do not feel at home in the Conservative Party, as if you cannot see the common denominator; their love of the EU and their inability to accept the democratic decision to leave it. If as a result they feel that they can no longer support the Conservatives, when a large majority of the Party supports that decision, then it is they who are out of step with the Party, rather than the other way around. Going back a couple of decades, they were the majority and the EU dissenters were called "the bastards". But those MPs didn't throw their toys out of the pram, they accepted that the Party was a broad church, and waited for the inevitable change in the national mood towards the EU which was inevitable as it became more federalist. Now those pro-EU Tories should accept the change in the Party's stance with good grace, instead of trying to stab it in the back with attempts to bring down their own government. If they wish to leave the Tory Party, or treacherously side with the opposition parties, then good riddance to them. We will soon see whether the electorate consider the Tories to be a right wing cult or not. If they are elected with a decent majority, would you consider it to be the case that the UK approves of the right wing cult Tory Party, or that Brexit was the main issue among a large section of the electorate and that regardless of traditional Party loyalties, left or right, they were voting for the only main Party for leaving the EU?

Go on then, vote Labour. Nobody on here will be remotely surprised.

So you advocate a voluntary tax system then? No, of course you don't. You want a system that imposes punitive rates of taxes on the wealthy because you are a typical socialist, full of envy of those more successful in their lives than you are. How arrogant of you to speak as if you know what the great British public think. You recently admitted that you don't know which party to vote for, so you're not even sure about what you think. I suggest that you await the Election result before you make assumptions about what the electorate wants. Certainly if they think like Corbyn and McDonnell and their ilk, the country is screwed and everybody will end up paying more taxes, apart from the top wealth earners/creators, who will take themselves and their wealth elsewhere. I've seen it happen before under Labour and their policy to tax the rich until the pips squeaked. I would have thought that you had also, but maybe your long term memory isn't what it should be.