badgerx16

At this precise moment I am listening to "Whisky in the Jar" by Metallica :smt035:supz::cool:

I can honestly say he is so sh1t that he will never play for Saints :cool:

A well presented argument

Saw the new Star Trek film this afternoon; creates a time paradox in the first five minutes and then blindly carries on regardless - very much in the spirit of the original series, and bl00dy good fun. :)

I have yet to decide who I will vote for, but I have decided the list of those who I won't be voting for.

I wouldn't go that far, but he is confirming a lot of preconceptions. And he has certainly failed to convince me to vote BNP

You can't slur Stanley like that

I never said they did, did I ? I was, yet again, rebutting your incorrect statement that we did not go to war in 1939 to fight fascism.

If which case help me out - give us your definition of 'left wing', and explain how Labour only became such after Bliar became leader. Come, on, I am willing to learn. And as for words such as racist, xenophobic, isolationist, and bigot, I know exactly what they mean, how to spell them, and when to use them.

Winston Churchill also made many speeches about the rising threat of Fascism in Germany & Italy, and the possibility that we would have to re-arm and risk going to war to stop them. ( Which funnily enough proved to be prophetic, when we went to war TO FIGHT FASCISM ). And if you are in a minority of 1, even if you are right, you lose - that is DEMOCRACY.

You know what Stan, this is something I can agree with you on, but just because I might be disillusioned with the 'big three', doesn't mean I will jump into bed with the BNP or UKIP, as I fundamentally disagree with their core founding principles, and I find their election literature and manifesto pledges offensive and insulting.

Pot, Kettle, Negroid!

Wrong, the Common Defence Pact, signed on August 25th 1939, 2 days after the Nazi - Soviet Pact was signed, whilst on face value covering an invasion of Poland by any other country, actually included secret clauses, ( which only came to light relatively recently ), that specifically, and exclusively, related the treaty to Germany alone. In has to be noted that August 25th was the day before the Germans' original date for the start of the invasion of Poland, and as a result of the signing, the date was put back. On the other point, could you please explain, for the wider audience, where Socialism and 'left wing' politics differ ? As things stand, if we had a poll on here about whether they are in fact the same thing, I think you would find yourself in a minority of 1 in thinking that they are not Are you saying that the Wilson Governments were not 'left wing', because MI5 certainly thought they were, and many of his parliamentary party had previously been card carrying communists.

Not according to Stanley !

True, they may not be fascists, but they are racist, xenophobic, isolationist, repressive, bigots.

Your previous post stated "I don't believe that our grandparents did go to war to fight fascism, i believe they went to war to defend their homeland. At this time Britian was an imperial super power where empire was something to be proud of. Our grandparents were certainly NOT left wing in their views." Therefore you made two statements, which ARE the points being discussed, as you have hijacked the thread and changed it's direction : Your first point here is that we did not go to war in 1939 to fight fascism, - a point on which you are completely and demonstrably wrong. The second that 'our grandparents' were not left wing in their views, is also patently wrong, given that the founding fathers of the Labour Party were most certainly socialist and over 7 million voted for them in the last election before the war. But I will give you a chance : in your world, ( whatever colour the sky might be ), if somebody comes along with a political philosophy that states that there will be a universal old-age pension, payable out of state funds; free education for all; free health care for all; social welfare payments for the unemployed and disabled; full recognition of trade union rights; and that taxation will be levied proportionally based on the ability to pay relative to the level of earnings - are they left wing, centrist, or right wing ?

B0ll0x !!! Keir Hardie was a SOCIALIST and founder of the Independent Labour Party, who in 1900 formed the Labour Representation Committee, from a mix of Trade Union and Socialist groups, because he felt the Liberals did not really represent the working class. in 1906 this group changed it's name to The Labour Party. In 1908 he was replaced as leader by another SOCIALIST and trade unionist, Arthur Henderson. Ramsey MacDonald, the first Labour PM,was also a SOCIALIST, having been a member of the Socialist Union, and then the ILP in the later part of the 19th century, indeed he stood as their candidate in Southampton in 1895. Clem Atlee, who joined the ILP in 1908 when he decided that SOCIALISM was the only way to truly help fight poverty, was the prime mover behind the concepts of 'social democracy' and the Welfare State.

I believe you are wrong ! The chain of events went something like this.... Germany annexes Austria, sets it's sights on the Sudetenland, is warned off but invades anyway. Britain & France tell the Germans to stop throwing their weight around or else - Germany ignores the threat and takes control of the rest of Czechoslovakia. Britain & France then say "no more, or else', which yet again the Germans ignore, and they invade Poland on Sept 1st 1939. Yet again we tell them to get out or else, they call our bluff, and we declare war on Sept 3rd. Therefore, I think, we went to war to defend the liberty of the Poles, from the fascists !. As for 'left wing views', Ramsey MacDonald had been Labour Prime Minister twice in the 1920's, and the last election before the war returned a Labour opposition of 154 members under Clem Atlee, with a total of 7,984,988 votes ( as compared to 10,025,083 for the Conservatives ) , so certainly a substantial minority must have been of that persuasion. :cool:

I went into a Conservative Club, and they all stood to attention when "Land of Hope & Glory" was played ! ( true story ) :confused: ( Naturally, I stayed firmly in my seat )

St G is in the States, where they are called the Republicans.

I think you need 10 times the cost of the car to meet Fry's alleged price tag.

It's only sad because it reinforces the stereotypical, rabidly WASP, perception of Islam, and because sufficient people accept this imagery as truly representative of the entirity of the Muslim faith to make it viable as a political doctrine. It also insults the memory of the war dead - remember those that died in the European theatre died fighting fellow Europeans, and those in the far east were fighting the Japanese;in neither theatre were they fighting Muslims. Indeed, there were plenty of Muslims soldiers, from both the British and French colonies, who fought and died to defeat Nazism & the Japanese. However, to paraphrase; Whilst I completely disagree with what you say, I will defend your right to say it.

Us older techies remember 5 and 1/4" or even 8" floppies; technically the 3 and 1/2"ers are called 'stiffies'

It will look good, and may open a few doors, but as an 'old lag', ( nearly 30 years in the ICT business ), it just hasn't appealed to me, probably because it is only recently they have made it accessible to people on the basis of professional experience rather than needing to be an IT related graduate.

Do you live in an area where the church bells ring out for services, weddings, and funerals ?