Minty

1 - Nothing is confirmed yet so lets not go overboard too soon. 2 - I'd be absolutely gutted to lose Davies but to say it's suicide, or will guarantee relegation is just silly. Be concerned by all means... I would be... but lets not pretend that anything is a certainty as a result. 3 - While it's not a nice choice to make, if the choice had to be made between keeping the club afloat, or keeping a player whose wages might result in us going into Administration, then reluctantly I'd have to choose the former. Until the accounts are published we won't know quite how deep our financial poop is, but it is a very real possibility that we need to sell him to help the club survive.

I'll take that as a no then!

If so, what kind of league is it? I might be doing some referring down there for some extra cash, and if I got to send one of you off, that might make it more interesting. :cool:

Hardly upside down. One outfield change and everyone playing in positions they've played well in overall in pre-season. Somewhat over-dramatic I feel alps.

So how is the actual game going?!

Yes, that's correct, and not all L series lenses are compatible either I don't believe... all I believe it's all the primes and only a couple of zooms, possibly even only one (the 70-200) but couldn't give you a definitive list. It's difficult to recommend lenses that I've not used so I fear I might not be much help here, but I'm sure the Fred Miranda site will have plenty of good information and reviews.

What's your budget Pancake? Fairly key question given the range out there. Also, what's your main intended use? Whilst it might not be ideal in some scenarios, don't rule out getting something like a 70-200 and a 1.4x teleconverter. Gets you arguably the best zoom going for up to 200mm, and a teleconverter that can be used on a host of other lenses. Just an option. The 100-400 is a very good all-rounder but the push pull zoom isn't to everyone's tastes. Fred Miranda that Al mentioned above is certainly the best resourse IMO.

Do you want something brand new? You can get more for your money if you go secondhand and if you're not silly you'll get a body that is still in A1 condition and will more than meet your needs if you're just starting out. Plus, as most people on here will suggest, you're better off spending more on the lens(es) rather than the body, as they'll last far longer than any body. Others will recommend Nikon stuff, my personal experience is with Canon. Which system you choose is entirely up to you and frankly, if you're just starting out in SLR's, I really doubt it matters. Both make excellent cameras that professionals use the world over. Don't rule out other makes either, but you'll find more people with these two makes than any other, so if you want to try out new lenses or the like, you're more likely to find someone with a Nikon or Canon. As for your specific price range, not got time to look right now but probably a secondhand 350D or 400D would suffice, which would come with an 18-55mm lens, and leave you some money (£200-£300) left over for another lens... perhaps the 75-300 (various versions up to about £160 I think) initially to give you more range. Alternatively, you could just save a bit and wait until you know what kind of lens you really want... for example the 50mm f1.8/f1.4 are excellent portrait/low light lenses for £50/£200. I could go on, and others almost certainly will. Personally though, for now I'd suggest going secondhand and save some cash to see what lens you really want.

I don't know for certain, but most, if nto all players signed whilst Lowe has been chairmen, have always been on the basis of a small initial fee with further payments to be made over time, depending on milestones being reached, so the initial purchase price was probably very low. We've done it for years and it's a very successful way of doing things IMO. Ultimately, if he does well, he'll probably move on, but that's life unless we get back to the Prem (and towards the top half), because that's what happens. Enjoy him and support whilst he's here and doing his best for us. Beyond that, it's all conjecture.

So be it,. although I've yet to see any case for that to be made other than individual opinion. Beyond that, I'm not sure at present, hence my personal reservations about renewing. The difference being that often in life there are other movements or organisations to join who can fulfil similar roles. With Saints there is no other option. The Trust is about as near as any of us will come to having any say in the way the club is run. I realise that at present, with the Trust in it's current state, we are a LONG way from having a say, but ultimately, it is the only potential vehicle for that to happen IMO. Fair enough Stu... my main point was your complete lack of respect for people getting off their arses for a cause they DO believe in. The relevent phrase here is possibly: "I disagree with what you say but, I would defend to the death, your right to say it." Forget who by, but hopefully you see my point. I have a lot of respect for anyone who gets up and does something about something they believe in, (as long as it is lawful, before someone throws a weird example at me). Mistakes were made, but i'd like your evidence behind the accusation about egos. Not a huge amount. I was part of it, and I fully accept that it did not succeed, but I'll be damned if i'll take criticism for making an effort. Can't answer that as i've never been involved. Again, not part of it so can't give specific answers, and i've given my reasoning for not renewing, however I still have yet to see any credible reason for labelling those involved as arrogant tossers, or whatever you call them. While I think you're being OTT once again, I have no doubt that anyone who has been involved in any of those organisations will be honest about the success or otherwise of them, and will have learnt a lot along the way. I am 100% certain that all of them have only done so because they care about the club, and given the amount of sh!t that tends to fly your way if you dare to try and do anything like this, I don't think anyone does it for the reasons you suggest. Personally speaking, I live by the mantra 'The only failure is never to try.' That's actually a lyric from a song by a band I am currently listening to however it sums things up nicely for me. I'd rather give something a go and fail, than never try. The one other thing I've learnt over the years is that to try and do ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING for the benefit of fellow Saints fans is ALWAYS destined to lead to abuse and condemnation, usually within seconds of the fanbase hearing of your efforts. As a result, I personally doubt that ANY new fan movement will be a success because too many fans are content only to whinge and expect others to do something. I hope to be proved wrong. At the end of the day Stu, you are of course perfectly entitled to your opinion and if you don't wish to join any fan movement then good for you. However, your constant negative commentary on anyone elses efforts wears very thin for me... it's not even constructive, which I could accept. It almost feels like you are attracted to threads about SISA or the Trust etc, just to remind everyone of your opinion, and never with anything new.

There were plenty of ways you could edit a photograph before digital... dodging and burning being arguably the most common... many people I know who use photoshop didn't realise that they were techniques used when developing film during the chemical process, and not just PS tools with the same name! To my mind, a photograph is a photograph whilst it portrays a scene that you could expect to see (more or less) with the naked eye... once colours become unnatural or too many items are removed/added etc, then it becomes too false. However, there is no 'line in the sand'... different photos can accommodate a different amount of editing before they look unnatural. More often than not it comes down to how comfortable you are, as the photographer, being able to say 'do you like my photo?', whilst knowing how much editing or otherwise has been carried out. I completely agree with Block 18's last line... photoshopped images can still be very impressive, but moreso for the PS skills on show, not the photographic skill... some togs are good at PS, and some aren't, but the skills required are two seperate areas and so should be distinguished accordingly.

Guys, lets not go there... football is an emotional game, and so emotional reactions are a part and parcel of it... everyone is different and the best thing, for all our sakes, is to ignore the opinions that rile you up, because things can often get worse and the whole thread will degenerate... Do we really need an 'I'm a better fan than you' thread so early in the season!?

Can i suggest that such ridiculous statements are simply ignored... no point in replying to it... otherwise this board will simply fill up with crap as before...

I don't believe anyone involved with the Trust, now or in the past, is an arrogant tosser... frankly, only the likes of you Stu, who berate anyone for daring to disagree, and having a complete lack of respect for others, is a tosser IMO. Your BNP comparison is laughable. The BNP have a clear manifesto, so anyone knows their general beliefs and gets involved because of that. The Trust has never had a clear goal, IMO, and that is part of the problem, but it is true that if fans care enough, then they can get involved and influence it's direction. I will gladly admit that I am something of a hypocrite because I don't feel that are clear enough in their aims at present, but just do not have the time or energy to get involved. Constructive criticism based on their actions is one thing, but your sweeping criticism of those who are involved, seemingly just because they are involved, is grossly unfair IMO.

I love how the arrogant judgements from some have begun despite no one who posted on this thread (I assume... apologies if that's not the case) actually having seen the game. New season, same old reactions...

Dave Merrington is notoriously difficult to please and he felt we were more than worthy of a point, and that we played quite well in what is arguably going to be one of our toughest games of the season. It's always gutwrenching to lose in such a way but it's important to remember the amount of change over this close season and it sounded to me like we did alright... obviously not brilliant, but nothing shockingly bad either. So, I would suggest that we ignore some of the polar opinions, take it on the chin, hope that the players, with Jan's help, learn from it, and move on. If nothing else, I don't think we can fault the players' effort out there today, which is something that has been lacking in the past... other things will come with time, but if they give 100% then I can't criticise too much. On to Tuesday and a quick chance to get a win under our belts.

Why? Is your Milkman part of the Trust? What's the problem? (Apart from a childish lack or respect for someones opinion...)

I just realised my first paragraph makes no sense... I meant that the Trust members aren't pompous, and that to call them so is unfair.

I was involved in the Trust in the early days and very much believe in the ethos of the Trust movement. I do not for one minute think they are in the slightest bit pompous and think that anyone who is trying to do something for the good of the club and the fanbase, even if you disagree with the way they are going about it, is unfair in the extreme. That said, I shaln't be renewing, partly as I really need every penny I have to go towards a wedding and house move, and partly because I feel they have lost their way somewhat... or at least they are not communicating a clear message at present. They may feel they are, but I don't feel it's reaching me... Some will say, quite rightly, that the way to help the Trust evolve is to get onboard and speak up... I can't argue with that view - indeed I fully endorse it - but I just don't have the time to do so at present and so I've reluctantly taken the decision to leave.