Minty

I assume everyone has replied to Steve's email... what's the score? Do we have a team? I can get a few veterans to play if need be. It's been far too long since we played Watford so I really wanna play this one.

I'm merely presenting some stats that someone else prepared that I thought might be of interest. I'm not suggesting anything or trying to draw conclusion, and finished by simply giving my opinion on our current position. The points about standard of opposition and squad are entirely valid. If you can't understand that then I suggest you just ignore it. (And yes, I was wrong about our relegation season. I'll readily admit it when I'm wrong. What's that got to do with this? I can still have an opinion.)

With thanks and apologies to someone who posted this on SaintsList, I thought it was worth sharing here too. I can't see that anyone else has posted it, but apologies if I've missed it. After our first 10 league games under JP, Saints have earnt 11 points. Here is the record of our other recent managers over their first 10 league games: Close-season appointments: Ian Branfoot - 8 points Dave Jones - 7 points Chris Nicholl - 8 points Dave Merrington - 6 points Graeme Souness - 10 points Mid-season appointments: Alan Ball - 12 points George Burley - 5 points Glenn Hoddle - 14 points Harry Redknapp - 7 points Nigel Pearson - 12 points Gordon Strachan - 13 points Depending on your outlook and opinion, I have no doubt that these stats will be twisted every which way and to suit a variety of arguments, and I fully accept that all of the above have had widely differing circumstances to deal with on their appointment, but as far I'm concerned, considering the age and experience of the squad and the financial situation we're in, JP and the current team are doing ok. I'd like them to be doing much better, and there are lots of things we need to improve on, obviously, but we could be doing a hell of a lot worse too and so I'm comfortable with the status quo and fully support JP and the squad in their efforts.

The Press have won that one then. What a **** Kinnear is, in many ways, but as soon as you let the press know they've got to you, they've won. He clearly doesn't have the charisma or verbal dexterity to deal with them so his best bet is to shut up.

Is this wind up merchant still going?

Well I wouldn't be so quick to comment... i'll wait until I've seen examples first. I don't know all the details but i doubt they'd put it in if the noise was that bad. Chuck Westfall of Canon has apparently said that the noise reduction in the 50D is "a stop to a stop and half better than the 40D." We'll see.

3200? Pah. I see the new Canon 50D has been announced with a maximum ISO of 12800!!!! :smt048

Wes, I totally understand what you're saying and agree with much of it. Being told we 'have our club back' is a million miles from actually feeling as though we have it back... but I think that is seperate from what I personally mentioned above. I don't think we do have it back at all, but I AM happier with the circumstances we find ourselves, in terms not being reliant on outsiders and trying to coach success rather than buy it. I entirely recognise we are in this position more by luck than design.... however that still doesn't the fact that I prefer these circumstances, and ongoing sustainability, to any that involve millions of pounds in outside investment. As for their motives, I couldn't say... some are adamant it is for one reason or another, but frankly, as long as they do what I feel is in the best interests of the club in the long term, I'm happy enough. I'm not euphoric, far from it, and I don't think many are. Some probably are coming across that way but it appears to me that most are simply happy that we have some potential for entertaining football. As has been mentioned elsehwhere, I think every club is a potential 'player conveyor' and that will never change whilst bigger clubs can pay their way and players are lured by the big money. That said, if we can achieve relative success and players enjoy playing for us then I don't see why we can't push for promotion but as I also mentioned before, I'm not actually sure I want to gain promotion to a league where the size of wallet rules. Entirely agree, but one game is unimportant in the great scheme of things IMO. This is all about a long term plan for me, so I won't be getting hung up over one result, good or bad. Well I can quite happily state that my feelings will never be different. We can't change football back to how it used to be, but having spent many years watching our Academy and reserve sides, I enjoy keeping in touch with the junior aspects of football, the 'grass roots' if you like, and perhaps that's one reason why I can gain enjoyment from any game even if the result doesn't go our way. Value for money is a perception and down to the individual so it's not for me to tell others why they should or should not be going but I do hope that more fans will come back to support the team.

As I wrote on the 'How come' thread:

Strong side you got there... i expect nothing less than a 4 goal win.

Provisionally ok for all of them... including the away game.

Kicked out? Maybe they've changed then because they've been no trouble at all for me. The boards aren't the best and I never used to enjoy playing against them, but i've had no trouble at Fleming Park because I make sure I clamp down on hard challenges near them that send players flying into them. I remember what it felt like!

As correct as Steve undoubtedly is, I can't help but think it could be summed up far more simply: Thanks to money, Football is f*cked. :cool:

Monday night at Fleming is indeed on rubber crumb. Down there last night... Mean Machine won 17-3... they are rather good... Jouls wouldn't get a touch! How do you know them?

I'm happy enough with the full backs... the best for of defence is attack, or so many people say... I also read on here plenty that say they'd rather see a return to the likes of our 5-4 win at Norwich, than boring 1-0's... ok, so not everyone is like that, but personally I agree that forward thinking full backs are the way and if we sacrifice a little in defence then so be it. As for the signings overall, I too am happy with who has come in, given my concerns when JP first arrived and the various financial messages coming out. I would like to know more about our current operating costs as a result of the transfers, and what the bottom line looks like, but that's not going to happen until the results are announced or we get something from the board...

Sums it up nicely for me too. Minimal, if not zero, risk and potentially stand to gain a good player out of it if he can prove himself. Can't personally see any reason to criticise this deal at all at this stage, and struggle to see how others can based on the above.

I'm with adriansfc... any success that has been bankrolled by outside investment is very hollow to me... football has been ruined by money and I sincerely do not want Saints to become a part of something I strongly disagree with... that would be a moral dilemma I would rather not have to deal with. The current set-up is as near as I've become to beign 'happy' with things, in terms of promoting young players from within, in a league that isn't awash with investment, for years. Hopefully we'll achieve something with them (over the coming years), even if it's just the ability to compete in the Championship. Ideally, the Premiership, or certainly top clubs with huge investment, will bugger off and leave the rest of us to compete for a title that means something if you win it, and not just having a big fat cheque book.

Oh boy, do we really have to go there? Move on.

I've criticised the team today, as have plenty of others. But there are ways to do it without winding up fellow posters (and that's aimed at various people, not just you). It would be nice if we could centre discussion on the subject and not the opinion makers... and if someone does wind you up, ignore it.

Fair point Wes.

Arizona asked 'Anyone changed their mind/agree/disagree after todays result?' Anyway, even if we ask if people have changed since pre-season, after 4 results, I still say that's way too soon.

Someone made the very good point in another thread that wanting to get on and play and being mentally fresh, does not necessarily mean they are physically fresh. That said, I personally don't think tiredness was as big an issue as our misplaced passing and had we kept possession better we would've been fresher and sharper, instead of having to close them down so much.

I thought McGoldrick did well and was unlucky... he needed more support... White and Dyer failed to deliver and only Holmes and Lallana linked up well with him, but with Gillett and Schneiderlin also off the boil he had a tough time. John needs to get into a game from the start IMO and is not someone who'll change a game from the bench. Our failure today was further back, and of course failing to take the few chances we did create (mainly Lallana). Otherwise I don't think McGoldrick could've done much more.

'you'll see I'm right'... I would wager that most people would think that that sounds arrogant, and stating your opinion in such a way makes it sound dismissive of anyone who disagrees. If it wasn't intended that way then so be it, and I apologise but it DOES sound like it.

Plenty of people express can their opinion without being arrogant. As for 'fence sitting'... I just see it as making a rolling judgement based on performances to date and that after only 5 games it's too soon to be so certain of anything. If you can't respect that then so be it.