Torrent Of Abuse

What, he'd suddenly want to sign for Liverpool?

Ohnovren. i wonder if his clothing line includes new Russell Brownpants.

#asklovrenhowheisfeelingnow

MLG. Whatever game is going ahead, he will be staging a simultaneous virtual version of the game in FM and using the analysis to alter the player ratings in real time.

Three hairs on the left, three hairs on the right, Adam Lallana, That beard looks like sh*te.

He sits on the bench, He sits on the bus, Adam Lallana, Thinks he's too good for us.

Yes, but Dejan's head was more than 25% of his total Dejan-ness. Probably more like 35%. In fact, it's so inflated now, he probably looks like one of those player figurines...

Which I guess means that we have to build as successful a team as we can because when JWP feels he has developed enough as a player here and the right offer comes in, he will be off too. Maybe next year, maybe not, but we have to aim to take three steps forwards from here in the expectation of two steps back in the following summer - and that's the way it will be for a club of our size. Maybe Cortese's vision (and maybe that of Liebherr snr, I don't know) stretched to enlarging the ground in the understanding that the only way that the FFP rules really enable you to grow as a club is by generating that income through the gates? If Katarina is not investing any more (which is understandable) then there will always be that glass ceiling for us and selling players will always be the way. FFP rules will just make everything more obvious as we have to really get those players going through our books to stop us going backwards.

Take a leaf out of Dejan's book. Run an #askRalph twitter session.

I'm wary of talking up the loyalty of players after this summer. Morgan and Chambers were particularly hard pills to swallow - even more so after Adam "I can't see myself playing for another club" allan a - but I'm impressed at the application of certain players this pre-season. Fonte and JWP in particular. If someone had said to me that we'd lose masses of players including one starlet from the very heart of the academy, I'd have said JWP to go before Chambers because of his P*mpey supporting background. Just goes to prove you can't tell can you? I wonder how many P*mpey season ticket holders went on to become captains of the Saints? If it happened, do you think he'd be one of a select few?

That interesting (and critical) link posted on the Eurosport thread discussing players and their disrespect for their contracts got me thinking... When we talk about players and their contracts, it often comes back to a discussion about how strange player contracts are compared to the standard employment world. Many talk about how we would jump at the chance to double our pay if given the chance. Others talk about how we sign contracts and get locked into them. I guess it's not unlike the difference between people who work from short term contracts (without a permanent employer) and those who actually take a permanent role. So maybe on this thread we can have some speculation about what the game would look like if they changed the system of contracts for players. Choose what model you think would be fair or the one which you think would be likely to actually get agreed or just suggest something left-field and discuss how it might change the game - for better and (more likely) worse. One model which might be like the normal employment world is that the lower level players would have fixed contracts (like normal employment contracts) which gave them a lower wage but more certainty of employment. Higher level players would opt for rolling contracts with the ability to switch clubs when they want to (when the best offer comes along). Players would have no real transfer value as they are in a sense free agents. The cost of the player would be solely the wages. Any player wanting to leave their permanent contract to switch to a higher paid rolling contract would have to pay compensation or see out their notice period. Similarly, the higher level players could be let go without compensation whereas lower level players could not. Clubs would probably see out their existing contracts with players during the changeover (which would take years), gradually writing off their assets. Eventually all players would be only available on these shorter term deals with no transfer value. The big clubs would obviously be able to pay the wages still. There would be a huge gulf between clubs with more journeyman players on normal contracts and those who need the more mercenary type (I guess there is now actually). It would be bad news for many players who leave the game through injury. Saints would probably adapt and do ok, as we always do. What ideas do any of you have?

Seems like a good situation for all parties. Bertrand gets first team football which will probably end with him either accepting a role here or (if he does really well) Liverpool. There's no point in him going there now. He needs games. We get someone with some experience in the position to complement Targett who is unlikely to be ready yet to face a whole season. Targett can be sure of getting a good slice of games this season without the crazy pressure of being 1st choice in a struggling team. He also knows his competition for the place is only a loanee and therefore temporary and unlikely to block his career. The owners get to pocket a large slice of money and defer the need to think about this position until next year. It also works if they are thinking of selling. On to the next gap in the squad...

Ralph: Roy, so glad you could come and watch the under-12s, or as we like to call them, "the first team". Les: Will you look at that winger. He'll be worth 12m before you know it. *sniff* they grow up so quickly, bless 'em.

This forum....

He sits on the bench, He sits on the b-u-u-u-u-u-s-s-s-s, Adam Lallana thinks he's too good for us...

For me, it was always a case of us going one step backwards (as we did when we lost the Ox) but aim to go two steps forward as a result. The prevailing attitude (whether intended or not) seems now to accept that we go five steps backwards and hope that 60m can buy us 6 steps forward. It won't do. Despite being a ****, Cortese did seem to be able to manage the overall image of the club so that we managed to take losing players here and there. I think that, with Cortese here we would have coped better with the erm... adjustments... to our image and even considering a loss of faith amongst the players he would have managed the timing of their sales and the purchase of their replacements better. Has there been a time since he and Markus arrived that we have seen such a clear out of players without replacements being signed? Surely those talking down Cortese's efforts to hold on to players can name some occasions when we have lost players and lacked sufficient cover? After all, it's apparently all about the money rather than ambition so as a team riding a wave of success up from League One, we must have been repeatedly pillaged for players? No? Lallana didn't leave after Sunderland came knocking when we were in League One? Shaw didn't leave at the end of his first season in the Premier League? Surely if it's all about money, they'd already be long gone? Agree with you in part about the "cash burn" argument. But I still think that the ambition of the last five year project has actually injected more money into the club than we could ever have acquired by being cautious. It's just a shame to see us cashing that value in (at least a big chunk of it) right now. Money in the bank is fine but it doesn't win games. Hopefully, with good additions to the squad and a bit of luck we can rebuild the team and achieve a decent league position - although I fear mid-table would be a good achievement for a club that's doing so much rebuilding. I'm hoping for entertaining football, good signings, safety from relegation and the seeds of something good growing for the future - rather like I hoped for when we were first promoted. It's a tough and unforgiving league and clubs who have to rebuild on the scale that we do often struggle. Here's hoping we keep Schneiderlin, arm wrestle Lovren into staying long enough to see what we're building (ok, I doubt this will happen) and keep Boruc until a better, younger guy is found. If we tinker with the spine of the team any more than we have, then....

Why do they have to be £20m offers, CB? Surely as we were a League One club at the time they would only have to be offers that would turn the head of a League one player? Bearing in mind you've been lambasting Saint Richmond (not without reason) on another thread for making up a problem scenario and then wallowing in despair about it, perhaps you could also answer people's points instead of blowing them up into overstated caricatures and then choosing to argue about that instead of the original point? I appreciate from reading your posts this is your usual style but it's kind of a pointless exercise don't you think? All I'm saying is that Cortese gave us a little steel in the boardroom. Was it an illusion? Partly. I think a lot of it was hot air but I think you need that in any business which is growing. You talk it up, persuade people to invest in the idea and keep things rolling and success breeds success. The key thing though is to keep investing. If you're not going to then you really have to manage the come-down from being so expansive and feeding off the investment. Sadly I think we became a bit rudderless just at the time we needed that leadership. Losing Cortese and his open cheque-book attitude to the club probably lost us Pochettino which lost us a lot of players and... so on. Personally I think Cortese did a much better job of handling the image of an ambitious club and he'd do a better job of handling those players concerned about the future of the club. We would probably lose people but we would not look such a hollowed out club as we do now. Of all the damage done to our club, what has had the most effect for me is the damage to our reputation. We're not seen as anything like the strong, ambitious club we were last year - not by the critics, not by the fans and crucially not by the players. For all his failings, Cortese managed that well. It's a shame we decided (maybe correctly) that we couldn't afford that.

Wasn't trying to rewrite history, Steve. And I didn't want to give the impression that I thought Cortese being here would have made players decide to stay BUT he did have a way of making sure that things happened at a time scale that was convenient to us and for an amount of money which was right for us. I have no doubt that the club have managed to get the best deals they could for the three lads who have gone but the timing is absolutely abysmal. For one thing each player's replacement is not already here despite the players apparently pushing for the move for some time. For another, the three sales at pretty much the same time only serve to make us look weak and influence others who were not necessarily pushing for the move but who also don't want to be left at a club which has a dearth of top class talent. I can't imagine Cortese allowing that. If anything, his handling of Adkins' sacking shows that he was always ready to preempt issues by having the plan B ready before plan A walked out the door. You cite the AOC sale, which is fine because he did indeed get sold and (as with Shaw and Lallana) we got top money for him but also it was JUST ONE PLAYER. No other moves were sanctioned and it was obvious from the way that we didn't have to buy anyone else to fill his shoes that the club thought we didn't need anyone else. Can you honestly say that we do not need to replace Shaw and Lallana? Are we going to move Clyne to the left to cover Shaw and rely on Ramirez or Davis? We are much weaker for those players going in a way that we just weren't when AOC left. He was a loss yes but the club maintained a look of strength and we maintained our push for promotion. I don't think the current board have managed this situation at all well and we look very weak. I'm just glad that the rumours now have Schneiderlin 'warning us to use the money well'. I'm not sure of the veracity of the rumour but it certainly beats rumours saying he just wants to go. It suggests there is a way for us to stop the outflow of players. I'm all for Lovren spending plenty of time in the reserves (if he gets back) because time has come for the club to show the players that they are secondary to the club and that we are not afraid to build a new team without them if they do not play ball - which is another thing that Cortese did do well considering his treatment of Puncheon. If we sell Lovren to Liverpool it will be a ridiculous decision which will end up costing us. By all means sell him to a foreign club but not them.

For all his numerous failings, this would never have happened under Cortese. He would have been an obstinate b@stard for the first transfer request and held out enough that no-one else thought to ask. The problem is we built up these egos and told them to be winners. And now we show weakness ourselves by caving into the transfer requests. Of course they are pushing to leave. We've shown them that we have limited ambition and zero guts. It's a perfect storm of crapulence. The only way now to stop the rot is to keep losing players until anyone with ambition has left or put Lovren in the reserves until he gets his head straight. For every week he refuses to play, fine him. Accept that the £8m might not come back and just use the £60m we do have to buy replacements. If a European club comes in for him then sell him but no sales to a fellow premiership club. It's time to play hardball. When folks on here were questioning Lallana's credibility as a captain, I said one thing: that he was worth that captaincy simply in terms of what he taught young players about the path to the first team. His presence said that youth could thrive, get to the first team and stay there. Now we have to make a sacrifice to say that we will not be pushed around. And Lovren MUST be that sacrifice. He has to be forced to spend the next 4 years in the reserves if need be to show players that the boardroom has the control, not the players. It's a battle too important to lose.

[tongueincheekmode = ON]I cannot believe that someone can go on the internet with the purpose of discussing perfectly valid topics and encounter such abuse.[tongueincheekmode = OFF]

For f*ck's sake, S-Clarke. I had The Kraken in the who-would-be-the-first-to-post about having Alpine in a who-would-be-first-to-post sweep-stake. Bang goes my 5p bet.

I was gutted when SRL left but I could tell from what he said in his departing words to the fans that he meant what he said. It makes the world of difference when words are said with sincerity. You can go through the actions but I think people instinctively know the difference. He's a career footballer. That's fine. But the theatricality of the badge kissing and letters to the paper is just that. He was our attacking midfield player last season and I'm keen to see which attacking midfield player we bring in this year. Simple as that. Next player up for the shirt, please. Oh, and if there's a prankster in the Anfield changing room, I'd like right now to suggest wiping your ar*e on the badge of Adam Lallana's shirt. That first goal is gonna taste awful bitter-sweet, Adam :-)

"It was nice kissing the badge, but I really must be off now." Yours cordially, A. Career-footballer. As with all break-ups, let's move on, find something better and leave him to the career path that will last a lifetime.

Well done, you win the Queen's Award for Facetiousness with an extra thumbs up for missing the point. Last season we travelled away and controlled games. We went to places like Old Trafford, Anfield and The Emirates and controlled games. Had long periods of possession, in the exact same manner as the big teams always have. There was no panicked defending, no heroic performances against the odds, no smash and grab. We would travel regularly to big clubs and hold our own. It's no surprise to hear the performances compared to the heydays of the 80s. But yes, you're right, we have beaten Liverpool since the 80s so it must be that nothing has changed. Good one. What we did lack was a sharper touch in front of goal - which is what Osvaldo was meant to be but failed to be. That is what separated us from the top teams. And that is why they are looking to prize away three players who gave us our solidity, our creative flair player and our one fit finisher. How are to plug all those gaps? It's a crazy task. Any team would struggle to replace its best players and yet we have lost every player who has won an end of season award for what... the last three years? Have they missed anyone? Boruc? And you wonder why people question how tough it will be? Really? We have had trouble bedding in one or two players in a season and we were pretty much all suggesting at least 2 new faces for the season before anything happened and now we need to get in three more to replace the best? More? Yup, you keep making cheap shots which miss the point, mate. We beat Liverpool plenty of times, you're right. It'll all be good for the first game of the season. Good call.

It was certainly an impressive season. We actually controlled some games rather than chasing the game in desperation and hoping to grab something (in the style of the England national team). I don't remember us standing toe-to-toe with big teams the last time we were in the top flight. Yes, we got a high finish under Strachan - and a cup final - but if we had sold Beattie, Wayne Bridge and Anders Svensson in the following close season (with only Ormerod and a long-term injured Marians Pahars left up front), with hints that Michael Svensson and Matthew Oakley were on the verge of handing in transfer requests, what do you think the mood would have been like on here? I think we had a better all-round squad than back in 03 but we were still very low on depth of squad. And now we have three first team regulars gone. Hardly a surprise to see people panic is it?