Lallana's Left Peg

The players are rubbish and Ralph has showed he can't address our weaknesses. Either they need to be changed or he needs to go. One or the other. I'd prefer to see plenty of them leave before we even consider doing the same with Ralph.

No doubt Ralph has his faults but this idea any good manager gets the most out of his team consistently over a season needs to go. There are only two managers in this league doing that. The issue for me is more where these expectations that we're any better than 15th - 17th come from. Look at any sensible logical information and it'll show for the money we spend we meet expectations over the course of the season - piecing together some good form for 2 months of it does not mean we're better than we really are. That's not to absolve Ralph of any responsibility for this up and down form, but realistically what are people expecting from a squad so starved of investment? We got spoilt for a few seasons and seem to think that is easy to replicate. Be grateful we even survive in a league where everyone else other than Burnley have more means and ambition than us. It could have been us going down this season, not them.

Some of the best coaches in the world have tunnel vision and seek complete buy-in to the way they want to play and refuse to adapt. They also have the luxury of spending money on good players though - and Ralph does not (and not that I am comparing him to the best coaches in the world either). What is lacking in the squad is an overall quality of player who is consistent. We only have two or three consistent players and that absolutely wrecks any planning you can do - how do you know who on earth is going to turn up for 90mins each game?

Nothing is really surprising about this season given the patterns of previous seasons have emerged again. What it has done is rubberstamp the thoughts I wondered heading into this season: 1. We're a momentum team that has a fragile confidence. When we have momentum its great, when we lose it it takes a long time to regain it. A lack of leadership and mentality doesn't help. 2. Our performances and stretches of form are because we recruit players with potential and have to watch their ups and downs in developing played out on the pitch - and those who are senior pros aren't good enough to move on elsewhere so the youngsters can't be dragged through matches when they are going through bad periods. Salisu is having a tough time right now, but there isn't a natural partner for him who can help him through it, for example. 3. Ralph is struggling to address his weaknesses and he is a finished article as well (I still think we're punching above our weight with him as our Manager though). The only thing that will break this cycle is new players or a new manager. I'd rather see what Ralph can do with a better quality of player, as too many of this squad have proved they have ability but not the consistency to be a top half player in the Premier League. Ralph has made mistakes, but player ceilings are not his fault. He continually sells his best players and has to do with bargain bucket replacements. No other club has been like this than us over this period of time in the Premier League - maybe that is why my expectations are low and nothing surprises me.

Palace spent £75m+ net in the summer. Whilst I think the players look lost at the moment we've no right to be beating them as we spend fuck all. We string a few wins together and people change their expectations. Our expectations should be low because we spend no money and expect to compete.

Be interesting to see what happens this summer. I know the owners are trying to get a competitive advantage via analytics but you have to spend money in this league to stand still. We lost to a Palace team today who spent £75m+ net in the summer.

Exactly this. No doubt Ralph gets things wrong but he's also working with some poor players for this level.

I agree. After our transfer activity last summer I'd have been elated to be told that by mid-April we'd have 39pts and be comfortably safe. If we had achieved that points total by beating the teams around us and losing to all the bigger clubs we'd probably all feel a bit 'meh'. The up and downs of our performances are interesting though. It's happened too often now. The outcome is fine over the course of a season, but I think it is a pattern and it is a concern. How can these players play like Championship players one week and Europa League contending players the next? Is it their mentality / consistency as footballers that is the issue? Is their confidence so fragile and is that down to their ability as professionals or the management and coaching? Why can't Ralph solve it? Consistency is the most important thing in football to have a career at the top level. As the owners of this club, you can't accept inconsistency as it wrecks plans and confidence. I think it was fine when we were scrabbling around for money and our goal was just to exist in the league. If you have a little more means and ambition, you won't accept these sort of performances. Ralph has earned the right to be backed. But he needs to figure some things out quickly - either as a Manager or in terms of his squad (maybe both) or he won't be around much longer.

It's like Dave Gorman and Jason Dodd are in charge. Even a reaction in the second half only makes the first half worse. On one hand I'm hardly surprised that a back three of Valery, Bednarek and Lyanco are shit, on the other our form is so up and down its the biggest question mark I have against Hasenhuttl. Our confidence appears so fragile - either its a consequence of our players costing very little (and a reason why they do), or there is something more systemic due to the coaching or the club itself. This would be the biggest thing I'd be getting to the bottom of if I were the new owners. We've no right to play near the top of our ability all the time as don't spend much money, but its genuine Jekyll and Hyde stuff.

Hojbjerg half way down the M3 as we speak.

The trouble with thinking we can do better than Ralph is the lack of realistic alternatives. I'll take Ralph keeping us in this division with fuck all investment every single season, even if it means up and downs rather than getting points here and there steadily. If the new ownership means we get a little more investment I'll change my expectations but honestly what do people expect this club to be able to achieve considering the amount of money we spend and who we spend it on?:

Because he is young and still learning the game, and doing it in the Premier League against clubs who have a budget for their Academy greater than we do for our first team. We absorb the up and down performances as he learns his craft and sell him for four times the amount we paid him. This is quite literally the model the club operates under. As for today, everyone has had an off day and the same club who suffer from a gross lack of investment in the squad has run into one which does not and is on it. Yes we've given them gifts but this is why our players play for us - they are up and down and do not have the consistency. The moment they do, they are off to a club who will pay them more. It's been like this for years, I don't know why people get so upset when we get thumped by the big teams.

Thought we gave it a good go in all areas of the pitch but the difference between a £1b team and a £100m team showed in terms of the mistakes made and chances taken. Nothing to feel disheartened about - we're unbeaten against them in the league this season and those dropped points may yet be the difference between them winning the league and losing it so we've given a good account of ourselves against what might be the best team in Europe.

He is because of the debt the club has. I remember football clubs being sold for 1p in the 90's because of their debt!

$1.2b isn't too shabby. And if he can invest 1p in Saints that is 1p more than Gao is allowed to.

It's the thought they invested 30mins into a long throw competition in training and he won that gets me. Exactly how bad was everyone else to make anyone think Salisu had a long throw on him.

Performance was not very good but sometimes you just need a positive result to stop the bleeding and build. This could be that game. I'd have taken a point at the start of the game and didn't think we'd get one after going behind. If some confidence can come back into the team we can grab some points and keep our head above water. Got a feeling it might be a funny season with some teams playing 4 -5 more games than others at times in the season which will make for an interesting last third of the season. There are probably three worse teams than us but it is tight - and the takeover has to happen by the end of the season at the very latest otherwise next season is going to be very very grim.

Probably done it to give himself a challenge for the next 80mins otherwise its so easy for him he'll get bored.

I hope people don't get too despondent if we comfortably lose tonight. Palace finished above us last season and this summer spent nearly £70m net getting better whilst not losing anyone of value to them. We lost our best player and 'made' £15m from sales retaining our net spend trophy. They're operating in a different world to us no matter how you feel about the size of their club. They are competing in this league financially and we cannot.

No I don't think the Manager shouldn't come under scrutiny. He should be accountable for getting the most out of the team, and arguably he isn't and most concerning is our regression defensively this season and some longer term trends which reflect the downward trajectory of the club which he cannot seem to address. But I am not too sure there is another manager who can do better. I appreciate its entirely subjective and based on pure speculation, so there is no point debating it too much, but when I look at the things he is struggling with I don't think they are things entirely down to his ability I think they are more reflective of the quality of player he has to work with. Perhaps he could be more adaptive to the limitations of his squad, but that would result in some very boring football (i.e. to shore it up at the back we create even less up front, and with poor finishers at the club we're basically playing for 1-0 wins and that isn't sustainable either). I've personally seen enough in his system and belief of how for us to play to think he can have some success, but with one of the worst teams in the league he's going to get some of the worst results - that's to be expected. Anyone who thinks this squad is any better than bottom 5 is a dreamer. It's frustrating how we collapse in second halves but also it is surprising to me to see us play so well in the first half. That doesn't excuse not being able to sort the second half of the games but the positive of the first halves shouldn't be ignored. Anyway - Ralph can improve but we're talking about fine margins and the bigger issue is at an investment level and no manager can fight money - at least no manager in history has been able to over a period of time. It kills you, and a lack of it is killing us.

I get the feeling if he wasn't shopping at Poundland then he'd be a highly effective Manager. Whilst there is an argument to say he should be adapting to the talent level of his players, if he went defensive people wouldn't accept it either. They certainly didn't with Puel. Yet had we gone to the Emirates yesterday, shoved 11 men behind the ball and narrowly lost how is that any better? Before we conceded we were the better team and crafted chances - what let us down was poor finishing - a sign of having low quality players, which is a consequence of spending peanuts on them. When we conceded from their first proper attack what let us down was poor defending - a sign of having low quality players, which is a consequence of spending peanuts on them. You can make an argument Ralph should be doing better, but it's not a case of dealing in absolutes with him. Yes there are strange team selections, poor subs and so on. But this is all stuff relating to polishing a turd. We are broke, can't afford to buy good players, and are being outspent by alot of teams around us. It doesn't matter how cute you try to be around all the other stuff, if you do not spend money you get relegated eventually. The season where we started buying kids from other Academies and making them starters and having a forward line consisting of two Championship players and a loanee may well be that season. It was obvious in the summer, I don't see why people are turning on Ralph like he is the problem and getting a new manager fixes things. It doesn't. EDIT - Convict posted at the same time!

Conditions weren't great but that was an awful performance by the U18's in what is quite a big game. Was like it was the first time many of them played in the wet - occasion and conditions got to them.

You can in a one off season if one of the Big 6 have an off year. And if another one has an off year the following season maybe you can do it again. I don't think its ever happened a third season and that is because of money. The Big 6 have the financial muscle to rebound from mistakes, and eventually get it right. You progress as a club in one of their off years and they buy your best players. You don't get your recruitment right (and again history here suggests no club ever does over a long period of time) then you're back where you started. It's not a nice thing to have to acknowledge as it takes all the romance out of the sport but I think that is the reality of the situation we're in even with a benefactor. We'll have to see how Newcastle go and how quickly they can accelerate their ascendancy and how much money that takes.

It was interesting to see The Athletic report on it considering we've been told that the most viable takeovers or investments we'll have will be done with no media awareness. I don't dispute The Athletic doing the appropriate checks with multiple sources etc. but to hear that they were told doesn't make it feel close to me. But it needs to be, as club is on its last roll of the dice in terms of finances and transfer strategy. It simply can't keep up with the investment the rest of the league makes at this rate and its us and Burnley who are going to eventually suffer. Sadly I also just don't see the appeal in taking over Saints either unless someone is willing to lose alot of money. We don't make sense from a business sense unless you think you can increase the value of the asset but to really do that you need growth in the league and I think we may be at the tip of that right now. The elite clubs are well out of reach so what would we be fighting for with lots of investment? Probably the same as Everton, and they are going nowhere either and how much has their owner pumped in? At least when we were broke back in the 90's it felt like we had a fighting chance because those around us were also broke so it didn't matter as it was all relative. These days we're spending £10-15m on marquee signings and that's half of what clubs we consider competitors spend on players and eventually that will just kill you.

Also if we had better finishers. I'll take a point against Leicester. More investment, better players, better squad etc. Inconsistency in the final third is what will send us down eventually. The teams who get relegated don't score many goals.