IamLeGod

It is certainly an interesting question as the creation of the Scottish Parliament created a deomcratic deficit. Scottish MP's sitting in Westminister can vote on issues of health, education etc that do not effect their constituents as these issues fall under the jurisdiction of the Scottish Parliament. In effect, controversial Labour bills on health and education have in many cases been voted into law by MP's who have little interest in the matter other than pleasing the party Whips and furthering their own political career in Westminister. This is certainly an issue that needs addressing, I personally am not a big believer in the breaking up of the UK as I don't believe it serves either side particularly well. However I do think that if it is genuinely what the Scot's want (again im not sure how much this is in fact the case) then they should be granted independence. I think this would be to their detriment. While it continues to be the case that we have a system of devolution of powers then I think the best solution is to not allow Scottish MP's to abstain from voting on issues that will not affect their constituents. ...for those interested this is known as the 'West Lothian Question'

Im not disputing the results, im disputing the reasoning. As you said everything else is opinion. It is your opinion that Lib Dem's only gain protest votes against the Tories/Labour depending on the constituency. You seem to assume they have no actual supporters, which isnt true. You don't gain that number of seats simply as a protest. It's interesting how voting numbers are only fact when they support what you are saying. When challenged to look at the forthcoming General Election results you simply dismiss them.

Im not so sure this essentially proves they are a pressure group. European elections are historically very different to General Elections in the UK. Also turnont (which is poor in GE's) is pathetic in European Elections. The Lib Dem's are and always have been strong supporters of the EU. Seeing as how last year UKIP and the BNP did relatively well (I mean by their own standards which are at a pretty poor starting point), it clearly demonstrates that voters at this time were feeling strong anti-EU/Lisbon treaty sentiments. Put the two together and hey presto - poor Lib Dem vote in Euro elections. Not really that hard to comprehend when you actually look at the whole picture behind the numbers. So yes these PRESSURE GROUPS gain more votes on the issue that they exist around when the general population seems to share their view. Wait until May 7th and see if UKIP/Greens/BNP gain anywhere near the level of votes the Lib Dems do.

Pretty gutted if i'm honest. The Jazz world was one of my favourite stages. Fun Lovin' Criminals & Eddie Grant were some of my highlights in '08. It is a cracking little area with a great feel and atmosphere, hope it manages to maintain this.

I really find this hard to believe. The Greens and UKIP are glorified single-issue parties. Despite their efforts to appear not to be, and provide stances on other issues, they are closer to representing pressure groups than genuine political parties. The Lib Dems on the other hand are a genuine established political party. That have, and always have had, stances on all issues and attempt to offer a realistic choice in the governance of the UK. Let us not forget that Liberal's under the various guises over the years have spent time in government. Whilst in may not have been for some time, it is also worth noting that the Labour party were once just trade unions (arguably this hasnt changed) and very few people ever saw them as standing a realistic chance of governing the country, especially not winning three consecutive general elections holding government for 13 years in the manner this current labour government has done.

Sorry Mr. Griffin. Why don't we just build a big raft, pile as many cons on as possible and float them off from Portsmouth and see what happens? That fact is we live in apparently live in a Liberal Democracy, and to enjoy all the perks that that brings and we have come to enjoy, we have to accept there come some downsides. The fundamental hinge of living in such a society is that everyone is entitled to their basic human rights and civil liberties. These human rights have to at all costs be protected. The moment the State is allowed to erode these a society in this system enters real danger of sliding into a terroristic authoritarian fascist state, as can be exemplified by Hitler and the Nazi regime. Criminals, however vile, disgusting, repulsive or heinous their crimes; still have human rights and civil liberties. You cannot simply treat them in any fashion or use them as cheap labour. This is once again acting, as mentioned above, in a way akin to the Nazi's using the Jews and other prisoners in their concentration camps for labour.

Fledgling Democracies? To what exactly are you referring? The two-term rule wasn't introduced into America until mid-way through the last century...nearly 2 centuries after the creation of the 'Democratic' United States. In true terms our democracy is really not much older (if at all) than the United States. Though its very arguable that the 'democracies' of both country are still hardly democratic at all...

I agree with the first part. Cameron or Brown. Either way we lose. Even worse a hung parliament which, historically, is about as effective as a house sculpted from ice in the Sahara. However, I think it is harsh to tar all politicians with the same brush. Admittedly yes some are simply career politicians. But to say all are is rather extreme. Also, what exactly is this 'real world' that you speak of? What exactly constitutes a real world? Seems to be a favourite criticism of any anti-Westminster type. It often seems to be something of a double-edge sword. To get any where in politics you need to start young and work hard to climb the 'greasy-pole' - leading to the claim they know nothing of the 'real world'. However, if they live in this real world of which you talk, have a life/career etc and then attempt to come in to politics they are accused of having no experience and not knowing anything about politics.

Haha to be fair, beats this... ...and he's bloody PM!

Happened to me last week. Just changed my password and security and appears to have ceased. Lord knows what its about?

Yeah, unsurprisingly (and as others quite rightly posted previously), this looks like being a story that is going to run on and on. Probably causing some quite considerable tension. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8604375.stm

Meh fair enough. My bad. Please continue

I was under the assumption that our new found "debt free" status came from the lovely Mr. Markus clearing our debts. Debts that were reported to run to a figure of around £27million? Surely making his investment closer to three times the figure you suggested? Not trying to nit-pick or start a row, just that was genuinely my understanding of events.

If a Prem club comes in I really don't believe we will hang onto him (or pretty much any other player) regardless of us being L1 or CCC. Players like Kelvin staying are very rare cases. Although I do believe it was partly motivated by him being realistic and not wanting to spend the Autumn/Winter years of his career on the bench playing second fiddle to a Goalkeeper in contention for a spot in the national team. Its as Beattie said a few years ago. In football loyalty is more something for fans. It is worth remembering that this is their career, albeit one pretty alien to most of us on here. In what other walk of life would any one turn down the opportunity to work for at a bigger/more prestigious institution on significantly increased wages? We saw last summer an exodus of frankly, pretty mediocre players to pretty mediocre clubs. Now we have a team consisting of some actual talent it is not surprising clubs in the higher reaches of the footballing pyramid will be sniffing around. Luckily, unlike in previous years we are on much more sound terms financially, and will pretty much only have to sell if the player makes their own position at the club and in the squad untenable. As I said previously, I find it hard to believe that if a Prem club comes in for Lallana (or most other players in the squad) we are going to struggle to convince them to stay

:confused: Cant seem to locate it in the android market?

Pixies - Doolittle One of my favourite albums ever, every song is just fantastic.

While this is true, also remember it does mean that all those moronic ignoranus' that think the BNP are the right way to go are also throwing their votes away. Praise the lord! Long Live First Past The Post. Proportional Representation is what allowed the Nazi's to get into the Reichstag, let's not forget.

Stevie Wonder - Legend (not a song/album just a statement), anything by him is just brilliant. Roll on Glasto!!!

Pretty sure this is the most thought out, well-informed post I have seen on this board. The apparent 'rise' in votes for the BNP and Nationalists is quite flattering on the BNP. If you look at actual numbers of votes received the BNP received pretty stable. What enabled them to gain a whopping 2 seats (well done there, lads seriously good work) was a general apathy and disinterest in politics (not helped by the breaking of the expenses scandal a matter of weeks before the EU elections), meaning that the traditional/main parties voters decided against voting. Meanwhile the voters of such parties far-right/extreme parties, who tend to be more dedicated anyway, see this as more of an incentive to vote. Hence us ending up with the sheer humiliation of that s**twit with the charm and likeability of that turd that clogs the u-bend and just won't budge and a former NF leader who has previous convictions for racial crimes (but definitely isn't racist or the member of a racist party or stoking racial tension or just generally a vile, disgusting, ignorant, grubby little man) as political representatives (I use that term as loosely as is possible) of the UK. But yeah seriously, whooooo BNP, on the up and all that. Certainly not a small group of narrow minded and ignorant fools, who the rest of the country just turn away in embarrassment as they were the drunken guy at the party that thinks standing on a table and swinging your piece around whilst screaming "WOW!!! ITS LOOKS LIKE A HELICOPTER!!! YEAAAH!!!" (worth noting someone doing this probably shares the intelligence of your average BNP candidate/member/supporter).

Yeah why should we help these countries? I mean seriously, it's not as if us, spain and america just casually strolled in, overthrew leaders, took everything of any value and then rounded up all the people onto boats and sold them as slaves? If we had done that maybe we should help them out. As in that case it might be our fault that they are in such a mess still to this day. Oh wait....

Exactly, thank you. Not sure about the greens. Would place a massive burden on an already extremely strained taxation system and almost certainly raise the deficit far further than it is.

Yeah not usually one to celebrate the death of another person. But Im not exactly going to mourn this one...

South African Boer Leader http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Terreblanche

We would be better off with a retarded slug with an arsehole for a mouth than that absolutely vile little ****wit Nick Griffin. The BNP are disgusting, ignorant, knuckle-dragging Neanderthals, I am ashamed that there are actual BNP 'politicians' representing us in Brussels. The people that need to be removed from this country are the BNP members, candidates & voters. This is what will truely make this country a better place to live.

Have to agree with most. I (like most saints fans) adore the guy. But he is not of an International standard, certainly not for England. He is however a class above most at our level, and I sincerely hope we hang onto him for the near future. Can see us through League 1, the Championship and perhaps in desperation lower league Prem (if Steve Howard got a Premiership goal see no reason why Rickie Couldnt). Have to agree with what was said above, it's embarrassing to think our fans would genuinely entertain the idea.