SaintJackoInHurworth

I think you are wrong to dismiss Ipswich so easily. I actually think it could be any of the other three who will finish in the top two - probably Leicester and then one of the other two. For the (fantasy) scenario in which we might have a chance of securing automatic promotion I think it would look something like this: 12/4 Plymouth v Leicester - 1-2 13/4 Leeds v Blackburn - 2-0 Saints v Watford - 2-0 Ipswich v M'boro - 2-1 16/4 Saints v Preston - 2-0 20/4 Leicester v West Brom - 1-1 Cardiff v Saints - 1-2 22/4 M'boro v Leeds - 2-1 23/4 Leicester v Saints - 1-2 26/4 QPR v Leeds - 2-1 27/4 Saints v Stoke - 3-1 Hull v Ipswich - 2-1 29/4 Preston v Leicester - 2-1 30/4 Coventry v Ipswich - 2-1 4/5 Ipswich v Huddersfield - 2-0 Leeds v Saints - 1-1 Leicester v Blackburn - 2-0 Potentially you could easily give Leicester better result predictions than I have given them for their other games (obviously except for the one against Saints in this fantasy scenario!) This would result in a top 4 finish as follows: 1 Leicester City 46 30 5 11 86:43 43 95 2 Southampton FC 46 28 10 8 90:56 34 94 3 Ipswich Town 46 28 10 8 90:57 33 94 4 Leeds United 46 27 10 9 81:38 43 91 So, even in a scenario which is wildly favourable to Saints, we would still only scrape automatic promotion on goal difference! What does give me some hope in all this is that Ipswich have got two very tough away fixtures against play-off contenders (Hull and Coventry), though those teams could be out of the running by the time Ipswich play them. What doesn't give me any hope is the requirement that Saints would need to win 5 out of 6 games and at least draw the other game!!! Which is why, sadly, it is just fantasy!! (though of course, we would all be crazily delighted if it came true!!!!!!)

With Saints beating West Brom yesterday and Leicester coming unstuck against Middlesbrough, it begins to beg the question, can Saints catch Leicester? If so when could that happen. I think it is possible, but I am under no illusion that it will be easy! I don't think we can do it before we play them though. However, if we can draw against them when we play them, it might be possible to catch them in the following game against Middlesbrough, as illustrated below: Currently: Saints 67pts, Leicester 78pts Saints beat Hull, Leicester no fixture -> Saints 70pts, Leicester 78pts Leicester draw away to Leeds, Saints beat Millwall -> Saints 73pts, Leicester 79pts Saints beat Brum away, Leicester beat QPR -> Saints 76pts, Leicester 82pts Saints beat Preston at home, Leicester draw with Sunderland away -> Saints 79pts, Leicester 83pts Saints beat Sunderland at home, Leicester draw with Hull away -> Saints 82pts, Leicester 84pts Leicester v Saints - draw -> Saints 83pts, Leicester 85pts Saints beat Middlesbro, Leicester draw away at Bristol City -> Saints 86pts, Leicester 86pts I have to say that even if we can get level on points with them by then, with Ipswich away as our next match, getting above them by then is unlikely! What do you think?

This item from football-italia.net may fit with this: Juventus starlet Soulé could join Southampton as part of Alcaraz deal - Football Italia (football-italia.net)

Leading football agent, Fabrizio Romano has announced that the deal is completed: So, what do people think? Personally I think it is a mistake. Until mid-December we had not won a single game without him. Since then, of course, Stu Armstrong has returned to fitness and has started instead and we have not lost a single game and have won most games. If Stu stays fit, then great! However, if he gets injured we could be struggling. Without Charly, who would we turn to without Stu? Rothwell? Aribo?

I find it quite bizarre that we are being linked with left footed right wingers! If, as we are being led to believe, there is a limited budget for transfers and loans in January, is that really our number one priority? Don't get me wrong - if we can get someone who is higher quality than what we have already then that will be great! It just doesn't strike me that it is the area of our squad where we have the greatest need! To illustrate what I am saying here we could take a look at Saints squad positions and who can play in those positions. I have made an attempt at this below, recognising that many players can play in more than one position and that some of these are injured: GK: Bazunu, McCarthy, Lumley. FB: KWP, Manning, Bree, Stephens, Larios, Holgate. CB: THB, Bednarek, Stephens, Charles, Holgate. CDM/CM: Smallbone, Downes, Charles, Alcaraz, Stu Armstrong. AM: Alcaraz, Stu Armstrong, Aribo, Fraser, A. Armstrong. LW/RW: Sulemana, Edozie, Fraser, Stu Armstrong, A. Armstrong, Mara, Amo-Ameyaw, Dibling, Doyle, KWP. CF: A. Armstrong, Che, Mara, Stewart, (Ballard) As I look at that it strikes me that our biggest need could be in central defence where any injury would leave us relying heavily on Charles and Holgate as the next line of cover from the bench. With Alcaraz and Stu Armstrong more suited to the AM role than a CM role (and definitely not a CDM role!) we could also be short in the middle should Downes or Smallbone get injured.

Yeah - he came over to the fans before the match and got some polite but mixed applause, but when he came over afterwards a number of fans gave him the middle finger and shouted abuse. As soon as he realised the fans were not going to applaud him, he turned around and headed back towards the tunnel. The only players who really received any applause were Stu and Edozie. I pointed at them to applaud to try to make it clear that I was not aplauding the useless Aribo and Arma who happened to come over at the same time. Even against Sunderland there was some appluase for the players but today there was a real sense of 'enough is enough' and there were very few fans applauding any of the players. I hasten to add that the performance today was actually miles better than against Sunderland.

Got back from the match a while ago (I live in Darlington)... Russell Martin is clueless. Ryan Fraser was hopeless and rightfully subbed off but he shouldn't have started. Adam Armstrong was hopeless apart from his goal and should not started or stayed on - why does Martin hate Alcaraz? If goal hanging were allowed he would offer more. When it comes to kicking/passing a ball his only quality is in the 6 yard area. AA works hard but he is NOT a winger. Holgate was much better than against Sunderland (better as full back than centre back) but was partly responsible for their first goal. Taking him off at half time will have further destroyed his confidence. Manning was worse than Holgate defensively but offered more in an attacking sense. Adams is not a centre forward, he is a support striker. Since we don't play that system, we don't benefit from that. Shea Charles should not have been subbed off. One of Smallbone or Flynn Downes were superfluous in midfield until Smallbone went off - both could have been replaced rather than Charles. Aribo was absolutely dreadful. he fluffed almsot every single kick that he had - only two headers were any good. In terms of positives: KWP was by far the best player on the pitch. Alcaraz would have easily been one of the best players on the pitch if we had brought him on!!! (MARTIN OUT!) Taylor Harwood-Bellis did some brilliant defending and has clearly got Premier League class. Edozie did well when he came on. Stu Armstrong was brilliant when he came on - but not sure why he replaced Charles instead of Flynn Downes. SUMMARY: Russell Martin is clueless. Until he gives starts to Alcaraz and our higher quality quality wingers like Edozie, Sulemana and Amo-Ameyaw instead of crap like Fraser and Arma we are just going to fail, fail and fail again. Shea Charles needs to play as CDM eevry game and should not be subbed off unless we bring in someone else who can play in that position. MARTIN OUT!!

Agree with so much of this: Holgate was dreadful and Martin has got to up his managerial game or he will become our next managerial casualty! Just to illustrate how badly he cocked it up, this is how we lined up at the end of the game in comparison to each players 'normal position': Player Normal Pos Final Pos today Bazunu GK GK Charles CDM RB KWP RB LB Bednarek RCB RCB Manning LB LCB Downes CM CDM Alcaraz AM CM Arma CF AM Fraser RW LW Aribo AM RW Adams CF CF I fully understand that some players like Arma may be better playing in a different position and others, like KWP and Charles, are good in their alternative position, but having 8 out of 11 players in a different position is absolutely crazy. One other comment I feel I have to make is that Downes is better as a CM/Box-to-Box player like Smallbone than in the CDM/holding player position. Downes did not close the space or provide an effective outlet from the defence. This contributed to the openness of our midfield and the ease with which they were able to cut through us. Our only natural CDM is actually Shea Charles and I think he needs to be given the chance to claim that position as his own. Yet, even with the players that started, it seems that Martin would have been better swapping Smallbone and Downes around. Smallbone strikes me as the better tackler and the one who has more nouse to create the space to link up play with the defence to get the ball out.

I'm just back from the match as I live near Darlington. I was tempted to create a new thread entitled "Who did worst today: Holgate, Downes or Russell Martin?"! I think the answer to this question is actually Holgate... but only just!! Russell Martin had an absolute mare today with his team selection and subs. There are too many things on which to comment, but let me start with the following table that compares players' normal position to where they were playing at the end of today's game: Player Normal Pos Final Pos today Bazunu GK GK Charles CDM RB KWP RB LB Bednarek RCB RCB Manning LB LCB Downes CM CDM Alcaraz AM CM Arma CF AM Fraser RW LW Aribo AM RW Adams CF CF Now, I am not arguing that we can't ever rotate players from their usual positions (eg KWP is great at left back) but to end the match with 8 players not playing in their natural position has got to suggest there is something very wrong!! It was pretty obvious early in the first half that Holgate was struggling. Yet Flynn Downes did not have the ability to help him because he is not a CDM like Oriol Romeu, but rather a box-to-box CM like JWP. That forced Stu Armstrong to drop back from AM to help out, thus depriving us of an outlet. Then when he went off, Downes (who also had a dreadful game) was left stranded once again. Which brings me to another issue... Substitutions * Why did it take so long to sub Holgate off? * How did the woeful and ineffective Downes get to stay on? At the very least he should have been moved into the box-to-box position in place of Smallbone by bringing on Harwood-Bellis as centre back and moving Charles into his natural CDM position. * Edozie was our most effective winger but was taken off. Why? His replacement, Fraser, was practically invisible! I didn't even realise he was playing until second half injury time!!! 😲 Summary Holgate was awful today and takes a lot of the blame for the scoreline, but Martin has also got to take some blame. He has got to get to grips with the squad and work out how best to combine them. He needs to stop relying on his favourites and needs to play less players out of their normal positions... unless they are better in the alternative position and are better than another player in that position (e.g. Arma may be better as an AM though I would argue that Alcaraz is the best player in that position)

So, I've trawled all today's posts and basically not much to much to report except some vague stuff. Nevertheless, a summary of all the snippets and vague hints and no mentions which may hint at where we are at (if rumours are to be believed) seems to be this: Hoping to sign a striker - looking likely to Stewart, for whom we have launched another bid. Signing another striker would be independent of whether or not Che leaves. Other rumours about strikers (presumably the players from the Scotttish Premiership) may be simply untrue. Che may or may not leave - RM hopes he stays. If he does leave we will definitely be signing a replacement. We will find out on Saturday who is going to be captain in the absence of JS. This seems to hint it may depend on whether Che stays or leaves as he has been promised the vice captaincy if he stays and signs a new contract. ABK's transfer seems to have fallen through - no further news on him going anywhere else. No further news on ther potential purchase of Nathan Wood. Sulemana is wanted by Everton but they and others refuse to pay £30m, so he is not going anywhere. He is sulking and reportedly has handed in a transfer request. No news on KWP except to say he has been training with the first team which suggests he is not going anywhere. Larios is back in training and fits better with RM's style than Perraud. Tall Paul is possibly refusing to even train but no other club seem ready to pay what is required to take him off our hands. RM and the club are annoyed at news leaks from the club.Some suggest this is why we are hearing less news at the moment despite being so close to the closure of the window. No mention anywhere about any GK transfers in or out. No mention anywhere about signing Johnson or other FB. Nothing mentioned about signing a replacement for Tella. No further mentions about signing Johan Hove. New rumours suggest we may be interested in signing Celtic midfielder Matt O'Riley, who was previously managed by RM at MK Dons. Some vague discussion that we may still be intersted in Taylor Harwood-Bellis from Man City. Other than these vague snippets, you will find a blazing row that seems to have started around accounting terminology like 'amortised' and the subseqwuent meaning of the word 'profit' and theerfore what level of profit Saints may or may not have made from selling certain players. The row has deepened into a slanging match around whether or not someone should be allowed to disagree with someone else - sorry I haven't read many of those later posts with any focus to get to the bottom of the exact details of their row! Finally, you will find the usual expression and debate of opinions about what may or may not happen in the next few days. For those that want to save themselves an hour of trawling the days comments, I hope this is useful!

Summary of current squad, anticipated & potential departures and potential additions GK: Bazunu, Lumley, McCarthy, Bycroft Potential Departure: McCarthy and/or Bycroft Potential Addition: Unknown FB: KWP, Manning, Bree, Larios, Meghoma*, Perraud Anticipated Departure: Perraud Potential Departure: KWP Potential Addition: Johnson or Other CB: Stephens, Bednarek, Holgate, ABK, Lyanco Anticipated Departure: Lyanco Potential Departure: ABK Potential Addition: Nathan Wood CM/CDM: Charles, Smallbone, Downes Potential Departures: None Potential Addition: Johan Hove or other AM: Alcaraz, S. Armstrong, Aribo (plus various players in other positions, esp. wingers, CMs and A.Armstrong) Potential Departure: Aribo Potential Addition: Unknown Wingers: Edozie, Sulemana, Fraser, Djenepo, Amo-Ameyaw*, Doyle* Potential Departures: Djenepo, Sulemana Potential Additions: Tella replacement - Paintsil, Roberts or Rak-Sakyi? Strikers: Che, Arma, Mara, Onuachu, Ballard* Potential Departures: Onuachu, Che Potential Additions: Miovski, Duk, Shankland, Stewart or other Have I missed anyone? (* = Players from U21 and U18 who have featured in first team squads during pre-season and the first three matches)

I think I would go with the following line-up as it is probably closer to the version of 4-3-3 (4-1-2-3) that we have been playing and keeps our wingers in their normal positions instead of swapping them around as everyone has done above!! 😁 Bazunu | Bednarek Holgate | KWP Charles Manning | Smallbone | v Alcaraz v SAA Arma Edozie In this Charles is the sitting CDM, Smallbone operates in a box-to-box role and Alcaraz provides the AM role, but may alternate to some degree with Smallbone behind him and with Arma ahead of him, thus making Arma into more of a false nine than an out and out centre forward (which would suit him better). As subs we would have: Lumley or McCarthy (or new GK if McCarthy is sold/loaned out??) Bree/new FB (Johnson?)/Larios New CB/ABK - I am assuming ABK will be sold or go out on loan, which could lead to us purchasing another new CB (probably Nathan Wood). If ABK does stay he may remain as sub or may start if he is getting back to full fitness. Downes (or he may start if Smallbone is not deemed fit enough to start) S.Armstrong Aribo Fraser (or he starts and one of the other wingers starts on bench) Sulemana or New winger (Tella replacement - Paintsil/Roberts/Rak-Sakyi?) or Doyle Adams/New striker (or Ballard/Mara if new striker (Miovski/Shankland/Stewart) is not yet match-ready) NB If Aribo goes this would open up the possibility of both Adams/new striker AND Ballard or Mara being on the bench or, if he doesn't leave (and is fit) Sulemana could feature as well as Fraser and the other new winger, though it would seem odd to feature so many wingers in the squad! PS Let's be honest though, there are far too many unknowns at present to be sure who will/won't be in our squad and ready for selection next Saturday!

Personally I have no opinion on whether Fraser will be a good signing... except that it seems a very strange signing when we already have so many wingers and AMs! Amo-Ameyaw Edozie Sulemana Tella S.Armstrong Mara Aribo Doyle Djenepo Alcaraz A.Armstrong. OK, some of those are perhaps better in other positions and/or aren't wingers (A.Armstrong, Aribo, Alcaraz), some have never shown any consistency or enough quality (Djenepo) and some have not yet lived up to their potential, but even so there is still plenty of quality or potential quality there (Sulemana, Tella, Amo-Ameyaw, Doyle, S.Armstrong in particular). I guess what isn't abundant in those positions is experience (apart from S.Armstrong), so I can only guess that we have signed Fraser to bring that experience.

I think you will find the picture you are refering to is a picture of a Brentford player so that is definitely NOT Zach Awe!!! For those who are confused, Brentford are the team in red and white stripes!!!! Saints were playing in grey! The general opinion about who the Saints player is behind Brentford's Keane Lewis-Potter in the last picture is that it is Jem Hewlett - which seems to be the most likely though there are also suggestions that it may be Will Armitage. The blonde hair would point to Jem Hewlett being the most likely suggestion.

For those that are unsure about Shankland, I would say he would be a great signing. For years I have taken a bit of an interest in Dundee United and before he moved to Hearts he played for them and scored shed-loads of goals, just as he is doing now at Hearts. This article in the Daily Record about him demonstrates how well rated he is: www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/lawrence-shankland-priceless-hearts-asset-30756159 Of course, the likelihood is that these rumours are just made up by some TeamTalk football journalist but we shall see!

The obvious ones are: When The Saints Go Marching In - old Christian song/hymn, popularised in 1938 by Louis Armstrong Que Sera - Jay Livingston and Ray Evans, 1955 - popularised by Doris Day in 1956 in the film 'The Man Who Knew Too Much' Obviously now sung by Saints fans as 'Wash your mouth out son, go get your father's gun,etc. When Johnny Comes Marching Home - American civil war song a.k.a. Rickie Lambert, Southampton Goal Machine But in reality every song we sing was originally something else. I don't think there are many song tunes sung on the terraces that were originally written as football songs, with the exception of Football's Coming Home, World in Motion, etc.

Disappointed that he wasn't brought on as a sub last night against Gillingham. I think he would have offered more than Tall Paul - and potentially he could offer a lot to our first team. I understand what some are saying about sending him on loan, but I wonder whether we would be saying that if he had not been injured in pre-season. Personally, I think he should be given his chance. It is worth noting that he was one of 8 nominees for PL2 player of the season last season. The winner of that particular award, Carlos Borges, has recently been transferred from Man City to Ajax for over £17m. Ballard was on fire for our U18 and U21 side last season, but also the season before. Sam Amo-Ameyaw was well behind him in the pecking order for the first team so it is quite strange that it is he who has had his chance (and taken it so well) while Ballard has sat on the bench several times but has only been given a few minutes playing.

As I see it, this is the current state of play (players in brackets are U18 or U21 squad players, players in bold are those who may possibly leave): GK - McCarthy, Bazunu, Lumley, Bycroft - all done, but Bycroft may go on loan or be sold? FB - KWP, Manning, Perraud, Bree, Larios, (Meghoma), (Abu) - Maybe all done but if we sell KWP we may need a replacement, especially if we also sell Perraud. CB - ABK, Bednarek, Stephens, Lyanco, (Awe) - buy one more CB (two if ABK leaves) + we need to sell or loan out Lyanco!! CM - Lavia, JWP, Smallbone, Charles - If both Lavia and JWP leave we need at least one addition - probably two. ACM - Alcaraz, S.Armstrong, Aribo, (Doyle), (Dibling) - some wingers can be played here too inc. SAA - probably all done. WM - Sulemana, Tella, Edozie, SAA, Djenepo - Probably all done here unless both Sulemana and Djenepo leave (but even then Stu or Doyle can also cover these positions). Hopefully Tella is going nowhere! CF - Adams, A.Armstrong, Mara, Tall Paul, (Ballard) - shame that Ballard has not been promoted to the first team squad as I think he is probably better than Tall Paul, Arma and Mara! Adams may leave and is (imo) not good enough to be our main striker anyway (though better than most/all of the rest with the possible exceptioon of Ballard!). One or two good additions needed if Ballard is still not going to be given his chance.

The main positive from this for me is that it double underlines in bold that we need to buy at least one half decent central defender so that we have four first team Championship quality CBs - potentially with Stephens and Bednarek as deputy for ABK and the new CB. If ABK leaves then hopefully we will get in to decent CBs with Bednarek and Stephens as cover.

Where do you get any certainty that Livramento will be leaving? There is a huge sell-on fee due to Chelsea if we sell him to anyone but them; and that is causing us to demand a large fee which most/all Premier League teams are not ready to meet. In addition, he has openly stated that he is happy to stay at Saints (though not averse either to a transfer). While, there is clearly interest at the possibility of signing him for less than we are demanding, at present it looks unlikely that Saints will flinch much if at all from that amount and equally unlikely that anyone is going to stump up that much cash. I won't say it won't happen because that would be foolish, but personally I think it remains far from certain that he will leave.

You missed Ballard. If he can break into the first team and build on his success in the Under 18s and Under 21s I could see him surpassing most of the players on that list. I think he definitely has the potential to get up into double figures. Similarly Amo-Ameyaw could get a few goals. As for the other figures here, some I would agree with but I'm not sure about others. I don't actually think Djenepo will get enough appearances to score that many for example.

Ah!! That makes sense!! In that case, let's hope he gets his chance in the last couple of pre-season games as it would be great to see him make his mark with the first team.

It has been great to see some of the younger players appearing during pre-season and doing so well, but there seems to have been a glaring omission from all of this: Dom Ballard. If any player has looked ready to break into the first team in the past few months it has been him. So I have been surprised and disappointed that we have seen nothing of him in pre-season - he has not been given his chance to break into the first team. Why is this? My guess is that he will get his chance to go on loan and to shine for another team before being given his chance for Saints. Hopefully he will take that chance with both hands and surpass the successes of Tella and Smallbone, but I still feel disappointed that, if that is the case, we could be missing out on the chance to see him shine at Southampton. Does anyone know anything? What does anyone else think?

I'm sure you are aware of Northern Saints, who are one of the regional supporter groups with links to the club. I am a member living in Darlington and my daughter and I will be among 48 members of the group who will attending the match. Some of these will be meeting beforehand for drinks locally. No decision has been made yet about where everyone will meet but do get in touch with the group to find out. Northern Saints is on Google Groups but also has a Facebook group. Spot on!! Last time I went to Hillsborough I think I found somewhere to park along Middlewood Road and I notice there is a park and ride along there. I would recommend staying over the night. Sheffield has got plenty of places to stay without breaking the bank!! The big challenge is likely to be the industrial action that is affecting train travel that week. You may be better travelling by coach from London on Thursday or Friday and returning by coach on the Saturday... Or hitch a lift or see if someone else on here can give you a lift!! You probably ought to identify where you are travelling from for this. You are probably best to go to the section of the forum which specifically addresses away travel too!! My Prediction: Sheff Wed 1-2 Saints - goals for Alcaraz and Tella

I have seen a few people saying that our top priority needs to be getting a striker and that was certainly true last season. However, I am not 100% convinced it is our top priority this year with both Ward-Prowse and Lavia likely to leave. I think central midfield is a bigger concern, even allowing for the fact we have signed Charles from Man City. Also, I think we find ourselves in a bit of an odd position in regards to attacking players. For a start we have loads of them with a number of youngsters starting to knock on the door to first team football. In short, at present we have all of the following options including wingers and wide midfielders, etc.: Adams A. Armstrong Mara Onuachu Ballard Dibling Amo-Ameyaw Sulemana Djenepo S. Armstrong Edozie Aribo Doyle That is a lot of attacking players and I think before we bring in more (whether strikers or wingers) we may well need to ship out a few (e.g. Onuachu, Adams, AA and possibly a couple of others). However, with some of these youngsters showing a huge amount of promise in pre-season I think we have to be careful that we don't totally block the way for them to compete to get into the first team. I am particularly keen to see Ballard in the first team, so I am currently a bit disappointed that we haven't seen him so far in pre-season matches.