Tom28

Does anyone know who Miroslav Stoch is? We've made enquiries to Chelsea about taking him on loan and we're waiting for a response. Never heard of him, but looking on wikipedia, he's 5 foot 6. Not exactly the prototypical centre forward we need. Looks like he's played twice for Chelsea - sub appearances against Arsenal and Stoke and set up a goal in the Stoke game. Remember that game, don't remember him. Agree with PS, Marlon Harewood would be ideal.

Skacel was in fact a left back before he went to Hearts and it was GB who converted him. Anyway, that point aside, I agree with the masses that he should be playing left midfield, with Surman at left back. Davis Schneiderlin Perry Saeijs Surman James/McLaggon Wotton Euell Skacel Saga Lallana Subs: Bart, Liptak, James/McLaggon, Gillett/Smith, Paterson (BWP and McG should never wear the shirt again)

I completely agree, 50 point will be enough. I've looked at league tables the last three years and based on current point levels, 50 points looks to be a decent target. Thats 6 wins and a 4 draws or 5 wins and 7 draws from 15. I see us getting wins: at home to Preston away at Ipswich home to Derby away at Blackpool home to Charlton home to Burnley And draws: home to Cardiff home to QPR home to Palace away at Forest away at Watford Defeats: Away at Bristol Away at B'ham Away at Wolves Away at Sheff Wed 4 home wins and three draws at home from 7(we have to undefeated at home) 2 away wins and 2 draws from 8 away games. EASY! And I see us maybe springing a surprise at either Wolves or B'ham.

I agree that Stoke and Derby played no nonsense football, terrible to watch but effective. However, Sunderland and WBA certainly cannot be put in that bracket. I remember when Sunderland came to St Marys the year they got promoted and they played us off the park. Their football was incredible, they had width, one touch flowing passing, composure on the ball, and you could've counted the number of times they hit the long ball on one hand. I went away from that game a closet Sunderland fan. The same can be said of WBA - of all the teams to get promoted last season, I wanted them to. They too didn't resort to the long ball tactics you'd expect to see from Stoke or Derby. They tried to play football, and admirably, are trying to do the same this year in the Prem. My point is this; yes the long ball, no nonsense, big centre forward style of play can be effective, but equally, so can good football, on the floor, and short passing. So stop peddling your agenda with non-factual statements. I agree entirely with the point of this thread though - the best thing about Sunderland that day a few years ago was their simplicity. When they had the ball, they got wide; as soon as they lost the ball they all got narrow and kept it tight. So simple, so effective.

The whole point of this would be that it differs from 'sugar daddy' ownership and shareholder ownership because the owners of the club don't take any money out of the club. It wouldn't be for financial gain. If the club was ever sold, the money any new owner would pay to buy the club could be either a) given to a charity, b) invested in the local community or c) committed entirely to new player spend. Ebbsfleet have over 31000 owners and rising. Given our fanbase, the history of the club and the 'brand', I would expect ownership to at least be double, if not treble that amount. Based on my band prices, 90000 members would generate nearly £18 million per year. If you consider this on top of last years revenue (minus player sales) which was 14.9 - minus 5 million (because ticket revenue would drop due to the inclusion of season tickets in some ownership bands) = approx 10 million. That would be an annual revenue stream of 28 million, against cost of sales of 22.8 million (but that was at last years wage levels anyway so it will be far less this year). An operating profit, BEFORE player trading. Imagine that .... we wouldn't HAVE to sell our players! This is an idea, and far-fetched at that, but if you want Rupert Lowe out, this would be one way to do it.

This post reminds me of an idea I had if we went into Administration, or even if we didn't. This is the idea: Think Ebbsfleet united...10 Ownership bands are established. Band No. of Owners Price 1 2000 £1000 2 2000 £900 3 2000 £800 4 2000 £700 5 2000 £600 6 2000 £500 7 2000 £400 8 2000 £300 9 2000 £200 10 Unlimited £100 Each fan/person/internet geek can buy a part of the club for a year. Each person can only buy one part in one band i.e. you can't buy one Band 10, one band 9, and one band 10. A band 1 ownership of £100 gives you 1 vote in all decisions the club has to make i.e, selling/buying players, kit selection, ticket prices, manager choices etc. A band 10 would give you 10 votes in any such decisions (but note that you only get 10 votes out of a potential 110000 votes assuming all ownership bands were filled and there were 2000 owners in band 10). Band 10 owners would get their season tickets paid for plus other perks, maybe a box for one game a year, or discounted away tickets. band 9 owners would get their season tickets and maybe discounted away travel. I haven't thought all this out yet, but the perks would get smaller and smaller te further down the bands you go. Each band would be capped at 2000 owners. First come first serve basis, with the exception of Band 10 where unlimited owners could purchase these. Assuming full capacity ownership i.e 2000 in each band and 2000 in Band 10, there would be 20000 owners (Ebbsfleet have 31000). This would provide an annual ownership capital of £11,000,000. I think the total share value of the club is in the region of £5,000,000 (can someone verify this?) so we would easily be able to buy the club out using this strategy. I would estimate wages to be in the region of £5-8 million per year so the annual ownership capital would cover that too, and the annual ownership capital wouldn't be our only source of income - we would also have sponsorship (which we the owners would decide upon), TV money and ticket sales on top of those purchased through the ownership plan. A very small skeleton staff would be required manage the affairs of the club and put the major decisions to the vote of the owners. I.e. they would be involved with sponsors to get a selction of say 10 offers for the owners to weigh up and choose from. Very basic description but thought I'd open it up to thoughts and comments. I dont have full membership on here so cant post new threads - maybe someone could do that for me if you wanted to get a proper debate going? Cheers!

Will be really tough tonight, Sheff Utd are unbeaten in their last 10 away from home (9 league games). I think a draw would be a good result. If we go with experience tonight - Euell, Wotton in the centre of midfield, Surman and Skacel down the left, some width and pace on the right with McLaggon (courtesy of saintwarwick) and if I had my way, Schneiderlin at right back, I could see us getting a result. Head says 1-1, heart says 4-1 saints!

How about we set a precedent for this forum. It'll baffle many, if not all of the posters on this website: Lets make a compromise - I'll swap you Smith for McLaggon on the right side of midfield.

Quite frankly, whether he turns out to be good or bad, this signing is no more than a bonus signing. I wasn't expecting anyone to come in during January, and I was expecting us to lose at least two players. As it has turned out, we've kept our squad together, and added one or two players. Thats a pretty good January. Adding a centre half is a great move - we're conceding far too many lately and thats with Perry and Saeijs. Just imagine if we had to plug OL in there - he's clearly not ready and, I suspect, will never be good enough at this level. I'm a little concerned about our cover at RB - anyone agree with me that Spiderman could do a job there? My team for the run in.. Davis Spiderman Perry Saeijs Surman Smith Wotton Euell Skacel DMG, Saga Subs: Bart/Forecast, Liptak, James/Gobern, McLaggon/Gillett, Lallana/BWP

Davis James Perry Saeijs Molyneaux Smith Schneiderlin Wotton Holmes Lallana Saga Bench: Bart DMG Skacel McLaggon Euell Hate to say it, but with our home form as dismal as it is, our best chance for points is away from home against teams at the bottom - this is a must win game. The cliche goes 'you have to win your games' - well, we HAVE to win this Saturday - a draw isn't good enough.

Dunno, it looks horrendous. But, generally, the rule for centre halves is, the worse the haircut, the better the centre back isn't it? I point to John Terry, Ricardo Carvalho, Rio Ferdinand, Claus.... And whats all this arguing over his height??! Who cares if he's 6.1 or 6.3, either way he's taller than John Terry, but I'm pretty sure he's not as good. It makes no difference. Bairdy wasn't exactly a goliath but he was strong in the air. Lets just hope this guy can bring some solidity to our defence. One more centre back or right back in on loan and that should be enough to help us out. By the way, anyone impressed by Smith and McLaggon on Sunday? I thought they both looked dangerous when they got on the ball. Exciting times eh...! 5-2 win at Barnsley - Saga hat-trick....

Guys, some of these posts are ridiculous - trying to compare our young players with Man Utd's is just plain stupid. Man Utd get the pick of the bunch when it comes to young players, and in addition, they can go and buy anyone who slips their net (Anderson as an example). Their 'net' spans the globe, ours spans the M27. They are a better club, better team and have insanely better players (Berbatov looked bored on Sunday). 3-0, with 10 men for the majority of the game isn't that bad. Who really expected us to win? You can say all you like about how we used to beat Man Utd at home - well, thats in the past, and we're not that team anymore. Watching the game on Sunday, especially the first 10-15 mins when I thought we were just edging it, I kept thinking that we're playing this good football, knocking it around, then in the final third, as always, it falls apart. We don't have anyone to unlock a defense. I think thats why we were able to compete in the Premiership all those years, we had a team of average professionals and one truly class player who would create a goal for us out of nothing. Thats what we need now, a new Le Tissier. I think Lallana could be that guy, I also think Schneiderlin has some real class. But they won't become Le Tissier's overnight. If only we could get Jack Wilshere on loan....! Additionally, our defense was shocking throughout and has been for most of the season. Skacel defensively is appalling - he has almost no positional sense. Here's hoping that Lee Moleyneux can improve us there. Centre back is a big worry - Perry and Lancashire simply aren't good enough. They're weak in the air, on the ground, they dont have any pace and whilst I'll give Perry a pass on his positional play, I can't do the same for Lancashire. Thought Lloyd James was the only positive note in the back four. I really think we are only two centre halves and a centre forward away from being a decent side (assuming we keep Schneiderlin and Lallana). Saga would be good to have back although I'm not sure he's the prototype centre forward we need. We need someone stronger to allow Lallana, Holmes, McG and co to play off. As for the centre halves, trying to find two that are strong in the air, have some pace, are championship quality AND available for loan might be impossible...any ideas who fits that bill?

Not for the people on here - if Saints started to do well, they'd have nothing to moan about, and consequently, nothing to do.

Yeah you're right, apologies, I read the wrong column. Still, my argument doesn't change on the basis of three points. There is still not a significant difference between NP and JP to warrant the kind of astounding declarations on this forum that NP was our saviour and should never have been replaced.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/may/30/southampton um - if its a choice between taking your un-educated opinion on this, or a respectable UK broadsheets' opinion, I go with the latter. maybe you will find a problem with the Guardian being 'respectable', so how about the BBC? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/7427097.stm

I think you will find that Nigel Pearson was in charge of 14 games for Saints. He won 3, drew 4 and lost 7, a win percentage of 21.43% and 0.93 Points Per Game. All that with a team that had been together for years (give or take the natural comings and goings that any football club goes through) and had plenty of experience. JP has coached 26 games, won 5, drawn 8, lost 13. A win percentage of 19.23% and 0.88 Points Per Game (by the way, when you posted DM, it was 0.92% as you correctly pointed out). And all that after shipping out every player with any experience and starting with a brand new team. Anyone who thinks getting rid of Pearson for Poortvliet was a massive error either has a selective memory, or is mental. You choose. And Pearson wasn't sacked. His contract wasn't renewed. Adriansfc - your original post was spot on by the way.

Yeah you're right. Mawene, Agyemang, Dichio, Lucketti and Dickson Etuhu. All names you'd associate with the beautiful game. Couldn't comment on Motherwell - never seen a Motherwell game, you?

I wasn't sure which one of you morons to quote but I'll go with CB seeing as though they so eloquently tried to pipe me down. Firstly, I'm a realist. We are where we deserve to be, in the Championship. We're not a Premiership side and haven't had Premiership quality for years. The quality of football played by the majority of sides in the Championship is appalling. Believe me when I tell you, there are Sunday teams down Millbrook Rec that display more attractive football than some of the teams in the Championship. Billy Davies knows one way to play football, and its that same appalling football I've just mentioned. I was at Pride Park for the playoff semi final a couple of years back and they must have hit over 100 long balls to Steve Howard that night. It was dreadful. He used the same tactic at Preston. It may well be effective in the Championship but it will last two minutes in the Premiership (as evidenced by Derby's plight when they went up that year).. In my post I said I would give up my season ticket if he became manager - I really couldn't stand to watch that drivel every week, regardless of whether we scratched wins out with it. Personal preference. Also, CB, where in my post was I moaning? Cretin. I'm doing quite the opposite, I'm supporting JP, RL and the current regime which I think is doing ok (equal to last year) and will get better.

One of the smartest posts I've read on here in a while. I was starting to lose hope that we had any supporters with half a brain cell left having read the drivel on this website for the last 30 minutes. I would actually dispose of my season ticket if Billy Davies were to take charge. I would also re-think my support for Rupert Lowe and join the vocal section of our supporters that despise him. It would be the single worst decision ever taken in the history of this club - I cannot stand the guy. We're in a bit of a bad run but lets not hit the panic button. The same fans calling for JP's head will be the same ones complaining about the high manager turnover rate. Lets ride it out with JP, lets give a manager a couple of seasons and see what he can do. I really don't think we're that far away from being a mid table team, or higher next season. Two wins and a draw from the next three - Win v Forest, Win @ Plymouth and a Draw v Reading. COYR...

Players might leave in January, but thats football. Every chairman of every football club outside the top 4 will say something along the lines of what Lowe has said - 'we don't need to sell players but we will if the player wants to leave and we'll get the best deal'. Even Randy Lerner and his multi millions was saying last summer the same thing about Gareth Barry. It happens. If we lose two or three of our better players this January, its not the fault of Rupert Lowe. Kelvin Davis is replaceable - I think we have two keepers who could step in and do a job. Adam Lallana is replaceable, we have Lee Holmes back from injury in the new year who I thought was playing better anyway before he got injured. We'll move on and we'll adapt to any changes that come. As for the stay away fans - see you at St Mary's on the weekend of 3rd and 4th January you no-good, fair weather, pathetic excuses for football fans... If only there was a way to pick them out and refuse them tickets for that game...

My positive view is not blinkered. On many occasions in my posts I've openly stated that mistakes have been made. My view is balanced, I just take a positive slant and have a positive outlook. Make the most of what you've got and stop complaining all the time. Its boring.

Wes and Um, your blinkered negative view on this club is bewildering.

Wes, your reply to my post was so baffling and full of contradiction, I'm not sure I have the energy to reply to it all. But I'll try.. First you say in response to my suggestion that Lowe was driven out by fans that "He (Lowe) was actually driven out by the possibility that a majority of shareholders would have outvoted him at the EGM called by his current poodle, Michael Wilde." I think you kinda proved MY point there - Wilde and other shareholders (many of whom are fans anyway) were pandering to the fans. Lowe was getting abuse every week at both home and away games. He had no option but to leave. "Having ****ed up the original Stoneham project and having then been rescued by Southampton City Council providing the St. Mary's site." Putting the blame on the Stoneham project squarely on Lowe isn't based on any sort of fact. Quite honestly, I don't care how it got done, but it got done and I for one prefer the location of St Mary's to Stoneham anyway. Even if he was 'rescued' by SCC (which is unsubstantiated) he still would have had to work very hard to get it done, and it got done. "How do you know this? Crouch is a far better businessman than Lowe and Wilde combined, proven by the turnover of the companies he runs. Do you have a crystal ball?" I don't care about their other companies, I care about Southampton FC and what Crouch did in terms of increasing player wages at a time when revenue streams were falling sharply was irresponsible. There is no evidence to suggest he wouldn't have continued this policy and driven us into administration by now. "So in your opinion, the best people to be running the club are the two former failed Chairmen, who are despised by most of the fanbase. And then you wonder why gate revenue is falling." I'm not painting Lowe out to be saint (no pun intended) and some of the things he's done over the years such as frequently changing managers and that time he decided to go along to training in his kit just made me cringe, but he knows his stuff financially and thats all that we need from a Chairman right now. The 'most of the fanbase' (which I think is a minority by the way) you are talking about need to wake up and realise we aren't a Premiership club anymore, we can't go on spending sprees, we can't fork out wages for high profile players, and thats the reality. So deal with it. "But he didn't need to dismiss a popular manager who seemed to have turned around a team of disinterested journeyman, steadied a leaky defence with great loan signings and saved us from relegation. He didn't need then to appoint a pair of Dutchmen virtually unknown in this country and totally inexperienced in British football and fill the team with the youth, playing a style of football they are not used to playing, did he?" You lost my respect here. "Those players will be gone in January, the resultant loss of quality will weaken the team sufficiently that we will probably be relegated and administration will follow." And here. "You mean the short termist strategies employed by Lowe presumably, who had a manager a year throughout his decade in charge? Regrettably we seem stuck with his current manager as he will be given far more time than any of the others, as he is part of Lowe's bizarre masterplan." I actually agree with you here. Lowe made too many management changes and too many poor managerial appointments. I think he has the right people in now though and we should get behind him. Do you seriously prefer the way we played under Nigel Pearson to how we are playing now? We're in the same league position so no difference there, but its so much more entertaining these days. Cheer up Wes.

I've just joined this forum and I can't believe the negativity amongst our supporters. I want to address two things: 1) Finances - When Rupert Lowe was driven out by a section of Saints supporters I said at the time that they should be careful what they wish for. It was frustrating under Lowe that our best players kept getting sold off, but ultimately, he kept our finances in order and he got us a great new stadium. The annual report that came out recently doesn't look good, but, if Leon Crouch was still in charge, we'd be in a far worse position. Look at the facts. Two years ago our revenue was £23m and last year it dropped to £14m. There are a number of reasons for this, and this is not the fault of Crouch, Lowe or anyone else in charge of the money. However, during the same period, our player wages went UP from £10m (45% of total revenue) to £12m (81% of revenue). This is something that Crouch could and should have controlled. We always knew our revenue would drop the longer we spent in the Championship. Our player costs should have dropped in line with that, but they didn't and that has put us on the brink of Administration. The best thing that could have happened for this club is for Rupert Lowe to come back in and sort this mess out. He has made the unpopular decisions needed to keep this club going. With Lowe in charge I believe we will stave off Administration and get the club closer towards the black. It won't happen over night and it may require one or two of our best players to be sold off, but I would take that over Administration. 2) Football - watching Saints play this season has been great. My complaints in recent years have been over poor football quality and players lacking passion. I would far rather pay money to watch entertaining football played by guys who want to play for the club, that pay to watch the rubbish I saw last year. The results haven't been good this year, especially at home, and on the face of it, that is hard to take. But for those that still go to the games, you will see a much more entertaining brand of football. We have outplayed almost everyone this season, and our defeats are a result of naive defending more than anything else. The players are young though and will improve. I think we'll continue to improve and learn and finish around 16th this season. I don't even think we'll be playoff contenders next season, but the season after, assuming most of the players stay, I think we'll be in a great position to get promotion. We may lose one or two along the way such as Lallana (who lets face it belongs in the Premiership), but I think we have every reason to be positive about what is now going on at the club. For the first time in a long time, I see a long term sustainable plan in place to get us back in the Premiership. And that is a vast improvement over the short termist strategies employed in recent seasons. Get behind the team and the club.