shurlock

also just back from the game. we nicked it second half - cant remember having many chances though. that said, cant remember them creating very much either at the time of the goals. we were shaky on the wings, especially on the left hand side (molynieux) with lee croft a constant threat. our best players were perry and size with saga and mclaggon doing well when they came on. think lallana still has more to offer (still looks to be returning from injury), so that can only be a good thing. Wotte's substitutions were well-timed and decisive (ok holmes was enforced). saga's touch still looked a bit rusty but he gave us real presence and worked well with DMG. Still think the midfield is a weakspot- wotton nor gillett gave us a bit more cover - but not much and that was offset by their poor retention and movement. Would like to see Euell given a go in midfield with Surman. He's shown he can do the combative stuff. Thus: Davis Molynieux-Size-Perry-James Lallana-Surman-Euell-McLaggon Saga-Dmg Our support was OK - one or two slight divisions between those calling for Lowe out at 2-1 down, just when we were getting back into the game and those who were focussed on the match. I really hope that the fans give the team and management the benefit of the doubt at the start of the Swansea game. See how the game develops and adjust reactions accordingly by all means but lets have a bit of patience before the wave protests. Isnt Wotte looking to play the formation/players we've been calling for? Given the constraints, is there anything more he can do.

Hoddle on Sky just now, discussing Craig Bellamy. Thinks he still has the opportunity to become a world class player provided he can find a home. Richard Keys reminds him he is 29. Hoddle responds that at age '28-32 another set of curtains open up'. Find this interesting since it challenges the assumption that players hit their peak in their mid-20s and casts further doubt on our youth first policy. Is Hoddle right?

Was in the Itchen North and just want to disabuse anyone of the idea that it was fans fighting fans. There was fighting in the second half but this was simply the continuation of a running battle with the stewards who've been trying to enforce the no standing policy. They've been heavy-handed and inflexible all season and fans reacted angrily when a couple of stewards tried to drag a fan for not sitting down. Its wrong to say that this was fans fighting fans rather it was fans fighting for fellow fans.

robert fleck - what a blast from the past

and i thought in the venerable world of football cliches, you create your own luck.

to be fair, we dont have many guilt-edge chances in games and if they've been squandered by anyone, lallana has been the most guilty. stats should distinguish between shots inside and outside the 18-yard box.

For what its worth, our away goal difference is much worse than our home goal difference. Though we shouldnt read too much into it, it does still suggest that our home and away performances are closer than people think. Having watched us this season, we've been much more competitive at home. For every away win (and even where we've played well -Derby and Reading- we rarely wn an away game comfortably i.e. by more than two), there's been a game in which we've been tonked i.e. Swansea, Burnley, Plymouth, QPR, Coventry...

Now if JP played Rudi on the left in front of Molyneux (where BWP was yest and Rudi's natural position) and tried Euell in midfield where he's been willing to get stuck in (where Pearson used him with some effect last year) or signed an experienced/strong tackling midfielder, then it could be claimed that the experiment has been reassessed. But until then, dont kid yourselves.

You're right- we were/are crying out for bite in midfielder. Other than his run for the goal, Schneiderlin was pretty ineffectual and avoided any of the dirtier stuff. Barnsley bossed and ran through our midfield (Surman did have a good game but was far too isolated). This is an area if we need to shore up, esp if JP thinks Gillett and Wotton arent up to the task. Balance wasnt very different yesterday. Size for Svennson. Saga is playing where Stern was used on and off. The day we regularly use more than 3 experienced outfield players (perry, size, saga) is the day we're more balanced.

If that's true, that's truly depressing. Remember creating a thread way back in October 'For such a young team, do we lack genuine pace?' trying to point out the same thing.

- In the Birmingham game, Wayne Thomas started and played very well. However, he got injured and Killer, already pretty fragile, hobbled off after the Blackpool game. Lancashire subsequently started against QPR and got sent off. The positon and player have beens soft-spots ever since. Rotating Perry went out of the window. - Holmes injury in the QPR game was costly. We have no natural width/pace (with dyer gone, smith injured), converting strikers/midfielders to those positions (robertson, lallana, BWP). Ths has been especially costly since so much of our game, when it works, depends upon the likes of Schneiderlin quickly switching play from one side to the other. It hasnt helped that schneiderlin has been in and out but he's unlikely to make as much difference without width. -Gilllett was absolutely fantastic in those two games. He offered steel/running not offered by any other midfielder (surman, schneiderlin). He shortly suffered an injury and subsequent poor form. Wotton has been unable to fill in. -Mindful they had not won for ages, we were absolutely fantastic against Derby. But in hindsight that we only managed one goal that day should have been a warning sign. Perhaps, JP understood this early on and that's why Peckhart was signed the day of the Birmingham game. A huge gamble that's failed especially as stern john was shortly dispatched to bristol. Or perhaps the fans havent helped. Still remember how SMS got on DMG and others back in the Blackpool game - if you remember that was IMMEDIATELY after the comprehensive Birmingham and Derby victories. There has never been much margin for error at SMS. Or perhaps the fans were right and we've always been ****. Derby and Birmingham were just an aberration in what has been a very bad dream. But no relievedly waking up from this.

well done lowe... david lowe

giggs, berbatov, neville, carrick out but tevez, scholes, rafael in - possibly slightly weaker tonight, though they're introducing the big guns. Even against united, simply doing the basic stuff right -being organised and closing them down - makes a difference.

I know its only half-time but Derby have been pretty commanding against United -United have been running rather than strolling and at times have been on the back foot. Is it really a weaker United team than that that played us or what?

"Apart from your families, the club is the most important thing in your lives and that is a big responsibility for me to look after...We are all a family together and it is very special for me to be part of it. The most important thing for me is that we develop a spirit which reflects you and the club". Nigel Pearson, 2008.

Stern will be missed. Took alot of stick from saints fans while here, then went on to finish as one of the league's top scorers (and he didnt start every game). Amongst his goals were some real crackers (Hull, Stoke etc). While he didnt run around, did contribute to the team- was the only player who could hold the ball up and bring others into play, something sorely missed this season. Paterson?! people having a laugh - the guy is tall in that lightweight and lanky way - if you think he gives us presence or pace up front, think again. Hopefully he has other attributes (finishing etc) but too soon to tell. Stern was proven through and through. Anyway thanks Stern. Whatever happens, hope he gets a decent reception (as Birmingham did earlier this season) when/if we come up against him.

3 of us going down - we'll be lucky to take 750. seemed to be fewer at burnley and there's no public transport. but we'll make ourselves heard.

Anyone from London driving down to the game? Am stuck for transport (even though I have three tickets - my lift fell through). The alternative is to chance national express, leave midnight the 24th, spend xmas in Plymouth and take an overnight coach back on the 26th, arriving back early saturday morning. alas, hardly appealing. transport is now arranged.

Generally agree- its the players rather than the system. And 4-3-3 or one behind the striker should give us greater flexibility when defending and attacking. But that's the ambition not the reality. If anything, our system means we get hopelessly overstretched as attackers (Lallana, DMG) drop deep to defend and/or receive the ball one minute and just dont have the legs to get in the box the next minute. The number of times crosses have gone in and nobody's been there is arguably proof. 4-3-3 is more flexible but it requires greater intelligence and discipline (and possibly fitness) on the part of payers when to and not to drop deep/go forward. Its not that 4-4-2 is more attacking (as people wrongly assume). Its that it gives players fewer options about where to go and maybe given our inexperience/naievity -some of our players seem to want to do everything- that aint a bad thing.

I would say swopping cork for schneiderlin and bringing pearce on made what difference there was.

Just back from the match and the score flattered us. Who knows what might have happened had we survived the first 10 mins. At 1-0, our heads dropped (we just dont have a talker or leader in the team - euell surprisingly is the closest thing we've got) and routine saves and challenges went missing and the goals depressingly followed. For the first 20 mins of the 2nd half, we did enjoy more possession and showed , mostly through Skacel and BWP on the left. Our second goal was very worked with a nice ball from Euell. But this was no Preston comeback - i dont think we tested their keeper after that and they were the ones to create the clearcut chances. A third would have been very lucky but it was definitely no Swansea. The plus was Euell's return. He's the most direct player Ive seen (Stern apart) and held the ball well - maybe its JP's lack of confidence in the other strikers that Euell was playing as the one upfront. Surman also had a good game. Lallana, however, seriously disappointed again- this is not the first game in which he's struggled recently. He failed to give us enough width and frequently bunched up play. On current form, I would start DMG ahead of Lallana anyday of the week, though if Lallana was playing in the hole -occupied by DMG- his form might pick up. Pearce added some stability when he came on and Cork looked much better than Schneiderlin in the middle. Perhaps, he is still recovering but again this is not the first time Morgan has disappeared from a game. Perhaps he still hasnt really adapted to the physical side of the championship. Kelvin had a mixed game - were his great saves less important after gifting them their second? who knows. Finally, Skacel needs to play further forward - this is becoming blindingly obvious. He cant defend but he knows how to shoot (we were shooting alot more this game but its laughable how everyone either dragged their shot or failed to get any power behind them) and he knows how to keep it simple but effective in the final third. It would solve two problems. Worth giving Mills enough shot at LB? Finally, it was the first time that the away fans have turned against JP (maybe that's because the tunnel was in front of us). Probably borne more of frustration than anything deeper but still not trivial.

Not saying Mills is playing better than Rudi. But all the critics who said Rudi had to be recalled have been disappointed. I still he think he has alot to offer, but in midfield. Shame those same people arent making the case. Time will tell whether Gasmi is any good. You're right: Pekhart and Smith have offered very little, but on the whole, JP's loans/purchases have not been disastrous: holmes, schneiderlin, cork, pearce and to some extent robertson. I just dont understand why given our setup/brand, we havent been able to attract higher profile youngsters.

Nonsense - whats the point of this? where is the constructive, ready to apply advice? How do 'we we play the way Palace play' - physical hoofball? How do we get there from here with the players we currently have? even if we could get there, would we want to? if it went wrong, people would be up in arms and say it was a return to the branfoot old days. Fact is we've never scored very freely at st.marys since we were relegated (the second season apart), as teams come with a gameplan to shut up shop irrespective of our tactics. I cant stand Lowe but I can see what JP is trying to do. Is it the tactics/formation or the players we have that is the problem? You dont address this. I think its more the players than the formation and we have little room to change the players side. And indeed they are naturally better suited to our passing style and than a palace-type setup, so there is an argument that changing the style would probably make things worse. We need to keep things in perspective. Most of our players are only starting out in their careers - for most, this is their first proper season. This is not a bunch of journeymen who've hit their peak but a group of players that still has potential to improve. They have shown they can be pretty much competitive in most matches against established, week-in, week-out professionals. And they've also shown they can play the best off the park. That's why I am excited by this team - that's why I continue to go to every game. We'll struggle this season but we'll survive - all is that is required is to convert a few more home games. After that, you wonder what could be achieved over the next two years as they gather experience and if i) they are kept together and ii) the idiots dont turn against them (we cant do much about Lowe's dealings but we can show a bit more patience and understanding) Is the situation ideal? No. Should we have blooded in so many young players as quickly? No - Wenger still rarely lets Walcott play a full 90mins. Do we need a few new faces? Definitely. A big direct, powerful forward to attack the box/crosses a la Kenwyne would be a start. So would a proper left-back, give us more backbone and allow rudi to give us some proper width rather than rely on converted strikers? And possibly an experienced midfielder - what wotton was meant to bring but hasnt so ar. But the fact is that none of this feasible. The point is not to create a world that doesnt exist but to work with what we have. If peoples suggestions are realistic, great - and JP isnt completely up his own ego (Robertson and DMG look pretty much like two up top -even if DMG is presented as being in the hole). Otherwise, its hard to see how they add real value. Hang in there.

Crouch was compelled to say this after the accounts were released. He has been cynically used by Lowe and Wilde as a fallguy and cover for of their more radical plans - many of which are being presented to us as the only way forward. Its only fair that he states his position and it cannot be helped if he comes across as defensive. Is a good guy- dont see many ex-chairmen unassumingly supporting their team at places like Sheff U on a cold and wet tuesday evening.