Long Shot

I am just back too (staying in Manchester overnight) and while basically agreeing with you, I disagree re Walker Peters who tried hard but was full of errors. Similarly Charles and Harwood Bellis mistakes gifted Boro the winner. There was utter dross all over the pitch today. Not one player other than the gk could be exonerated from contributing to one of the worst away matches I have witnessed. Boro were awful, their fans started moaning after 15 minutes and yet somehow we contrived to hand them the initiative with sloppy clueless football that was embarrassing to witness. Right now I would take Jones back. He was many things but he wasn’t an imposter.

Have you seen the manner of those 3 defeats (actually it’s 4 but everyone seems to be disregarding the debacle at Gillingham)? Three inept performances on the bounce, some delusional statements in the after match interviews and a dodgy track record suggests to me we are roughly in the appropriate League position (13th). Yes it’s early days but the odds are stacking up against.

Your post just goes to prove how far up shit creek we have travelled. We need a back to basics approach. Martin is not a back to basics sort of manager. So we have a huge problem. More of the same in the hope things change? Is our season now going be dependent on hope? I agree the whole scenario is ridiculous, but when you make a big mistake in life the sooner that mistake is addressed the sooner a corner can be turned. If Martin had come to us with some sort of decent track record then I agree waiting for him to get his act together could be the right option but I for one do not have faith in his ability to do that.

Think you will find it “slammed”

Forest are were a better side than relegated Leicester and Sunderland not long out of the third tier. You keep burying your head sunshine. The man is a loser and it will end in tears unfortunately. Some just reading the writing on the wall a little earlier than those with roses trailing over their glasses.

There weren’t just “shit results” though. Both games were chillingly inept. Worse then anything Jones conjured up and that was at least in the PL.

I think a lot of the problems can be put down to expectation and frustration. Winning just 2 League matches in over a year is a ridiculous stat. In that same period of time we have had 4 managers, another ridiculous stat. We have had poor leadership. Semmens moaning about his weekends being taken up with football, telling us we exist to sell etc etc. The fans are treated abysmally by owners who are in it for themselves and their bank balance. The only way the fans can show their displeasure is by doing all the things you find unpalatable. It’s very hard to be anything but negative at present even if that makes for an unpleasant atmosphere. Walking to the match last Friday I thought to myself “what am I doing, I’m not looking forward to the next two hours and I don’t really want to be there”. I nearly went back to the pub. 2 hours later I wish I had listened to myself. It’s not just Saints either it’s football in general. It’s quite literally eating itself. I never boo players (unless they aren’t trying) but I do admit to slagging players occasionally if it’s deserved. I swore at Armstrong last Friday after that pathetic attempted shot I must admit. But that’s football. By and large Saints fans are pretty good I find. Maybe it’s just your immediate area? Just my random thoughts really.

Piroe gets his second. Leeds finding their feet just as we lose ours.

If most on here can correctly suss out what we are doing so wrong how come the manager can’t? I am genuinely stumped how SR can get it so spectacularly wrong. Not once, not twice but it looks very much like three bad appointments on the trot. And some said Wilcox was the Mesiah? Why that was the belief beggars belief.

When you have owners that have no previous connection to the club you are always going to have a gap between the priorities of the average supporter and the owners. Saints Fans want to see stylish, exciting football alongside accumulating enough points to either get promotion or qualify for Europe. Owners meanwhile buy football clubs for one major reason. To make money. Sometimes how they do that ties in with the fan’s priorities but sometimes it doesn’t. SR are in this for themselves ultimately and while failure on the pitch hurts their pockets it’s a business first and foremost. Unless you are lucky and do a Brighton ie the owner is a fan you will always get an element of discord. Either that your owner is so rich they they just throw money at the problem a la City. Unfortunately our owners are neither super rich or fans and at the moment don’t even seem very intelligent going by their last three managerial appointments. Wilcox was hailed as the new Mesiah but selecting a manager that seems so inflexible and tactically inept doesn’t give me confidence in his abilities or the people who put him there.

Perhaps you now see where I was coming from?

I am waiting for the morning when all the Martin supporters mount their fight back. It always happens. Everyone is angry tonight and calling for the managers head. Tomorrow all the apologists will start their campaign. “Give the bloke a chance”! “ you can’t sake a guy after 6 games - it’s madness”” etc etc. I know for sure Martin was a big mistake on a par with Jones. SD are utterly incompetent. Since they arrived 2 years ago we have plummeted. so we are stuck with useless owners, a useless manager who only impressed the sycophantic journalists. What an utter mess.

I rest my case. The Leicester manager is head and shoulders above Martin but hey he is likeable.

Why do people conveniently forget the debacle at lowly Gillingham?

Yes Holgate had a horror debut but to be frank, to pick him when so obviously ring rusty was foolhardy, especially when there were alternatives. He will get another chance for sure, hopefully he will be improved so let’s not write him off just yet. We can’t afford to.

If you can point out where I said I expected him to win every game then I would quite happily accept your accusations of being deluded. We all want him to succeed. If I am wrong and you are right then it’s win win and we are going up but you don’t seem to be able to contemplate this most plausible of men just might not be a very good manager. I know that hurts and I know it’s an unpopular opinion no one wants to hear. We will know more by Cmas. (incidentally when we beat Newport, away 8-0 , the team was made up of fringe players)

“We looked good in four of them”. I beg to differ. We have actually had 6 games (you conveniently forgot Gillingham) and I reckon we looked good against a poor Sheffield Wed and average v Plymouth, QPR and Norwich although I accept the points we got owing to last minute goals made our start look better than our performances. You are right 6 games is not enough to properly judge a manager (although Jones was a dead man walking after the same nos). But I have listened to and spoken to Swansea fans and there wasn’t much angst at his leaving which speaks volumes. I was sceptical when he was appointed. I was at Hillsborough and came away thinking perhaps he has something but what I’ve seen since has brought about the return of my scepticism. Maybe I am “being unreasonable” to be so judgemental so quickly but not being a fan of possession tip tappy sideways football I am pretty sure this isn’t going to end well unless he becomes more flexible. That is a characteristic not shown at Swansea. Like I said I hope I am wrong.

Ah the ultimate comeback when someone disagrees with you “ I am sure you aren’t a Saints fan”! Sorry to disappoint you but I am very much a fan of many tears standing (first game early 60s ) and I happen to think Martin, while being an excellent communicator, is simply not going to be the manager to get us promotion, primarily because he is so wedded to a flawed system and is way too stubborn to contemplate change. Now I accept that my opinion will be hard to read or accept (and I hope I’m wrong), but this is a forum where issues are expected to be aired. It is not a happy clappy ra ra club where all views must be supportive or positive just so you can sleep at night.

You keep your head in the sand. IMO Martin is simply not a very good manager. The writing is already on the wall. Gillingham and Sunderland away has exposed his philosophy. Pedestrian passing and possession will turn the fans off. Feel free to throw this post back at me next May, by all means, but I doubt it will happen. By the way I do agree he is a good talker and unfortunately that seems to be enough for a large swathe of the supporter base.

All clubs have had an unsettled window including the side that beat us 5-0. That week they lost their star striker to us while we also made an unsettling bid for their winger. Sure it’s not been a bowl of cherries for Martin but last Saturday was right up there in truly horrendous football games and his gargantuan errors were unforgivable.

We are not Burnley and Martin is not Kompany

Martin might communicate well and be likeable, plausible and fan savvy but there is nothing on his cv that suggests he can actually manage. Saturday was a massive crash to earth moment. That defeat was worse than anything under Jones according to Jo Tessem. Was it a one off? We shall see but I’m not over hopeful that SR haven’t made another clanger.

Too many Saints fans back the managers because “I like him he’s a nice guy”. I am sure RM is a great chap to have a pint with but his record is unspectacular to say the least and his tip tappy tactics are inappropriate and unlikely to work considering the players we have and the League we are in.

I agree with this. I had big doubts about his tippy tappy style which were partly eased by our performance at Hillsborough. All my fears have resurfaced after this embarrassment.

Don’t mind losing, it happens but I sure hate losing when all we offer is tip tappy passive football with no passion or fight. Very disappointed in RM’s team selection and his one dimensional tactics.