Sundance Beast

Remember others don't expect so much and understand that if the club does something for one they'll be committing to doing it for others no matter how tragic each case may be. Most fans don't have a mouth piece from which to trade their personal agendas. Thank you for your response on which I have nothing further to add.

Daren Wheeler and excellent column isn't that an oxymoron whatever the connotation of column? Considering the bile the bloke has spat about this club especially with regard to his pious attempts to collect money for Cancer Research which I suspect he would not have bothered had his mother not contracted cancer herself. Believe me IMO Daren Wheeler is the last person we need to speak out on the club in an unbiased fashion. No doubt he will be hitting them with his 'charity stick' for a long time obviously so or otherwise. Just an opinion but appears the type to carry a grudge even in light of an explanation and one who strikes me as needing to be treated differently and above the normal fan to court a more favourable opinion. We need balanced assessment and IMO from what I have read from Wheeler on here that is unlikely to happen.

I wouldn't waste yoiur time on this character NickH. Um Pahars with his indepth knowledge of accounting principals and procedures even his writings have a 'nasal tone and quality' to them. I suspect he tops the scales at no more than 9 stone dripping wet which seems to be a permanent state for him. Um Pahars = tax clerk = loves a procedure.

Gordon we are all haunted by the prospect of mental decay but for you it must already be a more immediate concern as you seem sick as a poor victim of inbreeding. Save your hugs for your mother - its a family tradition afterall. Best regards nonetheless, we are all gods children, even you.

Excellent stoical performance and showed they can cope with pressure unlike this much lauded new website that seems to struggle with the moaners logging in and at the ready to dip their pens in poison. For the vast majority who posted on the prediction thread I suspect will have a quiet and sheepish night. Leave the 5-0 tonkings to Burley and Pearson you great bunch of 'supporters'. That kind of resilience can only confirm that we will confidently survive this season without the need of other teams doing the business for us. Bootboy, No I fan and McEnemy - no thanks the new era is not without setbacks but continues to show enough unlike a lot of our fans who seem stuck in the 1980's.

Absolutely, I can pack bags and drive him to his final destination.

Blimey, I logged in under the misapprehension this was a Saints 'fans' forum but reading this thread it seems to be a forum set up by Pompey fans to revel in our up and down form. Whatever happens tonight the result will have little bearing on our confident survival at the end of the season. Not unlike last season when we went away to Preston, Sheff W and Hull last season and let in 5 goals and still we survived. Hooray for Pearson who surely was responsible for managing the most abject display ever by a modern day Saints team and with a squad and wage bill that should have seen us in the play offs and not Hull. Sheff Utd may well beat us 5-0 tonight and it will be all part of the learning curve for our team of developing youngsters. Likewise, I have seen enough from them when we may well dish out the odd thrashing of our own this season and if you morons will give this team time the balance of power will swing back in our favour or would you prefer we go the sh1t or bust route waste and pay a few £10k's a week to some aged journeymen looking to boost their pension before retirement? Grow up and start acting like supporters instead of spoilt little boys. It seems to me many of you are actually revelling in our difficult times whilst the players and I'm sure the majority of level-headed supporters are all doing their best to keep this team in the CCC and thereby provide a platform on which to build. One serious tonking doesn't destroy a season or do all you Pearson supporters believe he was not at fault for our capitulation at Hull? BTW the reason we were beaten on our last trip to Sheffield from a team 'bottom' of League 2 was because said team have had a big points deduction for going into administration! Clearly you wish the tables were turned or you just love seeing your club struggle. After our excellent performance against Norwich this forum was quieter than McMenemy if he was asked for a positive contribution to forward thinking ideas for this club's future. I wonder why? Nothing to moan about you poor pale skinned individuals? Watching the game it will be very difficult and its more likely we will get beat, but it's not about this game more about the ones when our chances are more realistic and we could still nick a draw. Still if we do get beat look on the brightside some of you won't be able to contain your glee. Who knows you may even go off and buy yourself a wife off the internet. Sad little men masquerading as fans no wonder we are labelled as being one of the most moaning set of supporters in the football league, at least the employees of this club make you proud to be a saint if not this forum. Disgrace.

You forget to mention an increase in gate revenues as a result of those fans staying away purely because Lowe is in charge or the fact we have not won our first 11 games. As Sarnia said even Northern Rock in their pomp would not extend the clubs debt facility at the moment. That from a bank who would have cashed a bus ticket if you had presented it. Of course a returning and healthy gate may help persuade our bankers that we can generate an operating profit. Doh! As for selling players we have two options, Surman and Lallana and we will need every penny from them to just buy a replacement not to mention the proceeds will need to be used to offset losses at the gate. Doh! We could give away Skacel and Euell but they are unlikely to leave given their salaries would service the debt of a medium sized country. Who authorised those salaries? Lowe? Do they amount to about £30k a week? Nice work if you can get it or have a company fool enough to pay it. Stay away fans not the problem? Yeah Right...

Did I say there wasn't an alternative? There are, of which one is the only seemingly viable one at the moment at that's the return of, IMO, the club's nemesis and No1 fan Crouch, provided Lowe get's your desired vote of no confidence. Then we have the elusive 'consortium' who presumably are having problems leveraging up the funds to support their bid. I suspect they need more than a 10% deposit assuming they are first time buyers! The blue print at the moment IMO is simply to survive and consolidate our position in the CCC which given the disaster of the past two seasons we are arguably punching above our weight. No point having a 5 year business plan when our diminishing support seems barely worthy of a 5 month plan. Of course the major objective beyond everything else is to avoid administration. That is the one objective fans can have a direct and positive influence over so forgive me if I sound a little repetitive when I lay a large percentage of the blame at our stay away anti-Lowe fans. You want success, show your support -stay away and league 1 consolidation will not be a realistic objective. Time to stop pedalling your poison and negativity and support the cause. Saints will only die if the fans let it irrespective of Rupert Lowe's involvement. The harsh reality is that only an investor with enough spare cash (c£50m) who is willing to buy the club at an agreeable price to the shareholders will produce results quicker than the foundation Lowe is trying to lay. Worse case scenario we go into administration and some buffoon picks us up on the cheap and we can on into administration again after another failed season. That would be hello League 2, see you soon conference. Otherwise known as doing a Luton.

..and then what? IMO the potless Fulthorpe consortium or the return of the No 1 fan and his sidekick McEnemy. Both alternatives IMO would see us slide quicker into administration as they tried to adopt expensive and perceived fan friendly policies that would see us into administration quicker than you can say 'David McGoldrick's contract was this club's first unforced mistake this season'. Reading this forum as usual those supportive of what the current regime are doing are faced with a load of frustrated abuse in the event of being able to form any alternative coherent and viable argument. In fact very little from the anti-Lowe camp raises itself above beer talk and in the sobering light of day they would probably agree the current set up and its extremely limited resources is as good as its going to get. The majority seem to be blaming Lowe for poor performances which means they choose to stay away rather than show their solidarity and support for the team. Of course with such a young team there will be ups and downs and no one should have aspirations beyond survival and laying foundations for the future on young players rather than aged journeyman. However, we have a catch 22, the fans need to come back to help rally the team but through their ignorant actions the performances can only get worse as the likes of Lallana and Surman will surely be sold to balance the books and appease the bankers who show as much reluctance to lend at the moment as DMG shows of scoring when only a keeper to beat. Its laughable Lowe is accused of selecting the team or dictating how training is managed. I would like to see how this accusation could be supported in a court of law and I suspect many are confusing his probable involvement with the financial and legal management of Human Resources and the decisions around funding of and reveunue generation from the playing staff. I doubt these decisions are made without close involvement from JVP and Wotte but of course that view point does feed the fantasy that Lowe dons a tracksuit and shows DMG how to score although judging by his performance yesterday I can see where this malicious rumour could come from. Lowe is not popular and that's appreciated but its that quality (perceived arrogance) that bizarrely is what this club needs at the moment to keep the wolves at bay. Lowe will do what is right and not what he thinks will make the fans happy as IMO Crouch has already proved that policy is suicidal. Failing that Ipswich and Charlton have much to complain about and Doncaster and Forest look set for a quick return to league 1 and I'd fancy our chances over Norwich and Barnsley provided all our fans decide to support the club or cease their self destructive negativity. At the moment you seem to be intent on being masters of you own demise. Bit silly, thought you may have learned your lesson the first time around because that is why we are in the mess today. Its time for the protesters to right their wrongs and not Lowe.

oooooh, calm down girlfriend. What's up couldn't you get your boyfried to rim your ar5e last night, touch frustrated are we?

Confirms what we already knew. You love the sound of your own 'voice' so its only natural you love being a w4nker although I suspect its out of necessity rather than choice. Have word with Wes Tender perhaps you can save up your pocket money for a trip to the far east.

Thank you NickH for probably the most relevant and important point on the whole Lowe issue. Does Lowe need to leave or do fans who have been happy to support the club under his previous leadership but have deserted us now simply need to change their own attitudes. As for the plastics well all clubs have them and no doubt they will return the club to full capacity and pretend to the rest of us what loyal supporters they are. An excellent point and as usual the stay away anti-lowe types will not respond with an intelligent counter argument as to any true supporter there isn't an argument worthy of consideration.

No, as a football club our biggest liability is our fickle, plastic and moaning fans. There is I believe a hardcore of fans made up of S/T holders, members and regular ticket buyers who would support the club no matter what is happening on and off the pitch. Its their passion and supporting the club is more like a family duty than simply expecting to be entertained. There are too many fans who hide behind excuses like boardroom changes, bad results, credit crunch, poor entertainment value when bottom line they are simply not as committed supporters as the 10k or so I refer to above. They are not supporters just fcikle fans who want to be 'entertained' so perhaps the club should provide some Pearl and Dean adverts and a bucket of pop-corn to aid your viewing pleasure. I suspect if most fans added up the cost of their alternative activities instead of going to home games, the amount is at least equal to that of going to a game and without that sense of belonging and supporting a cause you are supposed to feel passionate about. We have one of the best stadiums in the country and if you want to keep it and the club going, then you need to stop looking for excuses and simply get down there and support them FFS!! If you want to be 'entertained' stop masquerading as a football fan let alone a Saints fan as on balance most games fail to live up to expectations no matter what level they are played at. It is a results business but whatever happens that 10k will still go as it's in there blood and they have my unstinting respect. What the rest can't grasp is that putting the money in the tills by paying the gate prices will have a direct impact on results through the 12th man crowd element and making some revenue available for investment. Don't hide behind your pathetic excuses when you chose to skip on the value of a season ticket and where applicable some excellent renewal deals. We have a ground to be proud of and not some shed like the Dell so hence the cost. Still keep up your stay away policy and we'll be ground sharing at Fratton Park and you can have your entrance price and associated ambience.

TG the size of the stadium is an important point especially if it has rarely held the full capacity in the past. Doh! As I said previously, it would be interesting to compare the drop in attendance in particular the 1st season post relegation and then 2nd season and so on to see what stage it levels off to show how committed fans are to watch football in a tier lower than they have been used to before they start acting like spoilt kids who's parents face some temporary hardship. Looking for excuses not to go in petulant shows of 'toys out of prams'. Puff and Oz are you reading this you sad excuses of Saints fans?

Conclusive proof if any were needed we have an extremely fickle (at best)fanbase who let boardroom politics affect their desire to support the team - strange but true. We also have a huge percentage of fans who are unable to accept the reality that Premiership football is not some sort of hereditary right and that your club requires your support whether they are due to play Chelsea or Doncaster. This just proves how plastic our plastic fans really are and how stupid and idiotic our protesting stay away fans. The credit crunch doesn't look like it's had much impact in Wales and East Anglia. Why is the economy so bad in a traditionallly better off region like Hampshire and the South Coast? This table kind of blows the economic argument out of the window and proves once again that in the right circumstances of passion and commitment football has its own micro-economy and a real fan's desire to support their team remains undiminished. It would be interesting to ses (if such a thing exists) a table showing the average drop in attendances for teams in their first season in the CCC post relegation. Bet we are bottom of that league as well. Makes you fell proud we have such a strong and committed fanbase. Perhaps that's why so many moan about Lowe and Wilde as it prevents them looking a little closer to home for the real source of the problem this club has in generating revenue and avoiding the label of being a selling club. We will be selling players in January so take a good look at yourselves if you don't attend on a regular basis and all things considered are in a position to attend. Successful clubs are most likely to have a strong and committed following but we over the years have been as flakey as our support.

Roman and Sundance agree again. Getting to be a regular occurence although the inverted commas were perhaps unnecessary but if it helps you come to the right conclusion eventually then that's ok for now. Two great posts from Saint Warwick and NickH and once again they go unchallenged by the stay aways. Far too logical and sensible to argue against I guess. Nice to see no matter what happens this club is worthy of our support and has supporters this club can be proud off however thick or thin the wedge is perceived to be.

True Wes there was no evidence just my opinion, my interpretation of player's attitudes under NP and JP. Take Surman for instance, we all know about the fragility of the human pschye especially in young men and he has certainly looked like a player renewed playing with a lot more vitatlity and freedom than he did under Pearson. With all due respect I would prefer if someone like Weston Saint offered his opinion on this as he I believe he has close ties to Surman if not he has been excellent in calling right any speculation with regard to him. So happy to be put right on my thoughts from weston but with respect not yourself as you will simply argue with me for the sake of it. Seasoned pros in the twilight of their career are more likely to react to the Sgt major treatment as they have more to lose, not many paydays left for them. Either way a devisive style of management and a football manager needs to manage all his resources effectively and not just motivate the journeymen. Lets not forget we were in 18th when he took over and he took us to the brink. The statistics don't lie we only lost 3 games but it remains a fact that Wright through a massive quirk of fate saved us and made Pearson look a better manager at this level than he actually was. Lowe has taken a gamble but he probably looked at the situation and realised he had two goals to achieve over and above anything else: 1) Reduce costs dramatically. 2) In that cost reduction exercise deliver a set up that would give hope and lift the spirits of the remaining employees and fans alike. A bloody tough call whatever line of business you are in but I don't think few could argue that Lowe has made a pretty good stab at delivering on these two objectives since he has returned and the club merits our support. Pearson's chosen route was to rely on players like Jasmine and Idiakez when he clearly had much better options in the reserves and youth which he failed to capitalise on or perhaps IMO alienated in his, shall we say, robust style. IF NP had stayed the objectives would have still been the same for Lowe and whilst to a degree goal 1 could have been achieved NP would have resisted to a degree despite what he said to his close confidante Dumb Pahars and did not have the apparanet talent to develop youth IMO despite his experience in the England set up. Why was Lallana not used extensivley before his goal saved us at WBA? Was it NP's last desperate roll of the dice? Our survival remains a quirk of fate and the events that lead to the acquistion of Richard Wright who played the best he has done for years before and apparently since. So unless NP is an acknowledged Goalkeeping expert and coach I think our survival can remain down to the fortuitous injuries to our 3 keepers as oppose to NP's expert management. Doing well in league 1, yes, but so he should given the resources at his disposable and the opposition. At the end of the season the greatest achievement will be JP keeping Saints in the CCC than Leicester gaining promotion.

Wes Tender's Inbox? Ladybirds I think that's what they're called over there.

Hence Pearson chose to favour the likes if Idiotkez over Lallana. Wes, as for being a better motivator I think you mean Boot Boy was a bit of a bully and managed by fear. A tactic that works in the short term and usually by those somewhat uncomfortable in their surroundings. JP I think on balance is far more considered and experienced than you want to give him credit for as a Lowe appointment. I look forward to reading your reasoned response to NickH's considered and balanced assessment of the situation. BTW Dumb that inspired meeting where the local press were asked to leave was populated by you and friends and family of those sitting behind the wallpapering table. I was indeed up north along with the other thousands of fans inspired by the thought of listening to Crouch's 'Circle of life'. They were dark days, thankfully Lowe is back to shine his ray of hope minus the selfless McEnemy, Gormless, Hapless and resident Sgt Major.

Mail order brides? Wes Tender's specialist subject - alledgedly;)

Just like to thank DSM for the infraction I was given for calling Oz and Puff the Magic Dragon layabout ignorant scum. I have no complaints and I know I was out of order. For the record I am bouyed by the number of positive messages of support coming through for JP and the team in what will be a difficult season because of the financial mismanagement of the last two seasons not least letting Burley near that £7m transfer budget and the recruitment of the likes of Euell and Thmas and not to mention the thankfually forgotten Idiakez. Give me the youth option anytime and perhaps had Pearson followed the Warnock plan he may still be here today. He's not and rightly so, so lets get behind the team. I'm not complaining about my infractions but the attitude of some so called supporters and their abject failure to find anything positive to say about 'their' team upsets me to my core. Its ironic that posters can get away with calling me and others like Scooby anything they like and our only crime to post a supportive if alternative and challenging view to these anti-Saints types. They are not anti-Lowe as their actions and words are simply anti-club and to the detriment of the team. Anyway apologies once a again for calling OZ, Puff and others of your ilk, ignorant scum. Scum is a far to good a word for you and if I could visit your 'abodes' and give it the Bobby Sands treatment I would before realising that smearing your walls with excreta would alledgedly improve your environment. I shall read your comments (strange one that Baj, ban users but allow them to read the main forum) with a growing sense of doom and gloom but continue to support my beloved Saints unconditionally regardless of my personal opinions as I did when IMO the incompetent and his self important and effective general were at the helm. Doug and Ron we don't agree on many things but I do appreciate your views, even you Roman but you don't have the decency to acknowledge the fact that even we agree on occassion. Tame keep jumping on someone elses bandwagon and I grow grey waiting for you to post an original thought. Its been real and I hope those who haven't realised it already, that regardless off who is in charge we actually have a team worthy of our support. Lowe was not responsible for the dire crap we were dished up with last season and we averaged at least 18k for home games so this year under massive constraints we have a young side visibally working hard for us and we choose to reward their efforts by 3-4,000 of us staying away, mostly it seems in protest. Anyone who condones that action should be banned from this forum as they are not acting in the best interests of the club. I hope they don't end up with regrets whilst the 13-14,000 it will just be disappoinment and sadness despite everyones best efforts we slide into administration. As I say scum for the anti-club stay aways is to good a description.

OK, hot sugary tea has brought me round having had a ight headed moment realising I was reading and agreeing in totality with a post from Roman. LBO's and half ****ed consortiums organised at best by some paper millionaires is not going to be the answer to our problems. No serious investor or their learned friends are going to boast about it to the media or comment on internet forums. Deals like these are still struck in the offices of lawyers and banks (formerly investment banks!) until such time as our store has fallen so low SMS appears at your local property auction. £50m would be the minimum required to turn us into a typical yo yo club like Birmingham,WBA, Reading and you will need to double that figure if you want any hope of consolidating a place in the Premiership for another 27 years post promotion. Look at Sunderland although like Pearson, Keane may be able to motivate senior players but he doesn't seem to be the shrewdest manager available. Certainly hasn't spent wisely but that said a stay in the premiership beyond a season is going to need another £50m on top of the original investment. Their are a whole host of clubs who could do with that sort of investment and most have a much stronger 'good will' figure on their balance sheet.

Well said, Oz and Puff amongst many others your fighting talk is deafening. I think there are three things in life that require your unconditional support - your family, your country and for football fans - your team. With your attitudes I don't actually believe you are true Saints supporters and would not be surprised to find you are a couple of Pompey trolls. In any event you clearly are uneducated and moronic chavs. Lowe has more right to be ****ed off with you as you made Burberry the cloth of the landed gentry into the uniform of the layabout ignorant scum such as your good selves.

The disaster that is happening to this club is the ignorance and moronic stupidity of the stay away fans who think their efforts will oust Lowe and make the club stronger when it will actually bring it to it's knees. Well done the only people appluading you will be our friends in blue down the road. They must be loving it watching a once proud club destroyed by prejudiced and fickle fans whilst 13-14k hard core do their loyal best to support the club thei genuinely love. Anti-Lowe SMS stay aways seriously want to make me vomit, see all you last game of the season if we need a result to stay up and you can all pretend how hard core you all are, pathetic.