Sundance Beast

Your welcome and I suspect not many read Duncan's posts these days as they are stuck in the 1970's, football has moved on for better or worse but Duncan doesn't appear o have noticed that. For the record to the previous post I have made no comment about DW's mother other than our original exchange of views and it is he who continues to bring it up. I will say this though that cancer affects 1 in 3 of us so I suspect there are a few hundred on here silently and bravely suffering as a result of the illness be it themselves or close family members. Most though don't choose to use their own personal tradegies as a stick to beat the club with. Tragic though DW situation is it does not mean I don't have a right to my opinion and be able to give it without his continual resorts to veiled threats of violence and about being able to find me with today's technology and 'talk' to me face to face. Maybe one day Daren and perhaps you can kill two birds with one stone because some people are living with personal tradegies so acute that a bit like our football club they get by one day at a time. Thats my 3 posts out of my system for the day.

BASSA? Now it's beginning to make sense. Duncan it appear's you love flogging dead horses and why you say yourself you love looking back as you believe the good times have left the club for good. Why don't you spend your time writing to Gordon bemoaning what happened to the real Labour party. The world has moved on Duncan and unfortunately for you, you haven't and that's why your views on Lowe have as much relevance as Trade Unions in today's society.

Hello Tame, glad I got your week of to a good start and hopefully put a smile on your face. It made me smile as well and hopefully its still a decent human trait to be able laugh at yourself once in a while even though I doubt a few on here can admit to being able to do just that. The Fashanu joke is a good one and yes and I did forget he had died but remembered as soon as you mentioned it but unlike some others I don't have room in my head to have an encylcopedic knowledge of every ex-footballer alive or dead. I have trouble remembering my wedding anniversary let alone the time Fash put a rope around neck although I guess its equally symbolic. Still please keep reminding me of it every other time you reply to me as it still makes me laugh. With regards to dear old Duncan somewhere in the more dustier recesses of my brain I was under what now appears to be the misapprehension that he was a professsional journalist. (Unlike Daren Wheeler who comes across as an unusual breed of hooligan who was learned to write) . Therefore, when I saw ITN, I naturally thought that he was referring to his day job but obviously not. I suspect to even the most ardent Saints fans the acronym ITN would automatically make you think about ITV news as oppose to some coffee table tome for which a tree had to die in the rainforest. Easy though how things can get taken out of context if people don't listen to both sides of the argument. Still catching up with events at the AGM whilst i was away on holiday. The Echo's report on the spat between the board and the audience was quite funny and you have to say Lowe managed the abuse quite deftly and it was messrs. Crouch, McMenemy, Lowe, Corbett and Holley who made themselves look quite frankly a bit ridiculous and actually very funny if it wasn't for the fact these people are the ones who are advocating change. None of them had anything different to say or was I the only one who noticed that. Personally, I prefer those who want to run/change our club not to rely on their spouses to fight their own personal agendas but I suppose had lovable and loyal lawrie not sold his shares he could have attended the meeting in his own right. As for Crouch being told by Lowe to 'sit down and behave yourself Leon', or words to that effect it sounded like Lowe had to revert to the role of a calm and collected school teacher. His response to Holley's diatribe was priceless and what else could he say. Cleverer individuals would have removed ther own personal agendas and kept the questions challenging and impersonal and Lowe might not have so easily breezed through a sitcom of an AGM thanks to those in the audience. If it means any of those protaganists will never darken the corridors of power at SMS again they long may Lowe reign. In the meantime I remain supportive of change but only if it is beneficial to the club and not simply to satisfy the desire of those with some form on unbalanaced persoanl agenda or unjustified hated of Lowe. I am not interested in personalities, background, race, 'football man status', hobbies, class or upbringing to name just a few. I am only interested in having the best person available to do the job who is strong and man enough to have the courage of their own convictions that they are doing the best for the club and to stick their head above the parapet and get on with it, without the use of fan friendly rhetoric to smokescreen what is really going on. He is running the club better than anyone else has since he left and Salz or anyone else would not be able to do anything differently in the current local and global climate. It is the fans perception and prejudice towards Lowe that is dividing the fan base to a degree not his ability to run the club and if we analyse the performance of the buffoons in the audience at the AGM and there one track path to oblivion we should be grateful he is in control for the time being. Glad I made your day although worrying that's two senior moments I've had this week and apologies for filling my response with a load of stuff perhaps not relevent to you but on 3 posts a day you need to use every opportunity and to allow the occassional post to wind up the lunatic fringe aka imo Daren Wheeler. Chomp away DW afterall you are the Beautiful South. god forbid!

Apparently, very little, you even seem unaware you have lost the plot. ITN news writer uses Stanley as a credible and unbiased source. I suppose you'll be trying to spin a positive report on the Israeli's indefensible action of shelling a house full of innocent civilians by saying something like 'well in a warzone they were stupid to follow the advice of the enemy.' Extreme? Maybe, but no doubt you get the point. I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to achieve DH but clearly taking Stanley as a point of reference and congratulating him for his material is extreme, divisory and provocative for this club's real supporters. Shame on you.

Firstly, never apologise for having an opinion especially if you support the current board. Ever heard the club anarchists apologise for refusing to step over the threshold at SMS until Lowe has gone or beating their monotonous ill thought out drum? Always make me smile when the Anti-Lowe use Strachan's unbiased tome to try and hang Lowe, the same man who gave Gordon the job after abject failure at Coventry and all us fans saying wtf has Lowe done? Now Strachan is paraded like some kind of deity by the anti-Lowe brigade - you couldn't make it up although the anti-Lowe brigade love doing just that. Anti-Lowe fan = Short memories or worse = prejudiced.

And that last comment is probably why most people who take their news seriously will watch BBC or SKY news channels. Working on producing another balanced article Duncan or propaganda that ultimately can only bite the hand that has fed you in the past. Tread carefully old boy you are in danger of making yourself look a tad more ridiculous if that is possible. You're obviously more GMTV than ITN. Word of advice if I may - let it go, it was only a phone call - have you never had a cross word in the happy clappy world of ITN news? Why try and continue to undermine those who are trying to run the club in the only viable way open to us at the moment. Not only that your stance and the encouragement of others is actually damaging the supporters experience for many of us of whom were once your loyal customers. The way you are going and the sources you seem to be reverting to, don't have a print run of more than 500 for your next sparkling read. Most fans I suspect, like me prefer our non-fiction portrayed without bias and our grapes a little sweeter.

Quite

MFI was orginally saved by a management buyout and look what happened to them recently. Ergo, Lowe will buy us for £1 after administration and take us into administration again ....ooooh how scary. There are many options all of which you will all switch into some conspiracy theory that Lowe is out to get you. You are all beginning to embarrass yourselves just a bit and thankfully there are at least another 12,000 regular supporters going to games who don't share your views or are more ambivalent at any rate. This can be supported by the comments on the articles on the Echo website where the comments are much more balanced and have a less anti-Lowe aganeda apart from one ot two seriously unhinged and unhappy individuals. Anyone read UTS's comments on there? Not exactly someone you want on your side.

Paranoia or merely confirmation what many of us were saying at the start of last year. Smart investors or circling vultures are not going to want to invest in a company that they know they can purchase for a £1 post administration. Barclays purchase of Lehman Brothers in the US is on another scale but illustrates the point perfectly. Called in to rescue the bank at the last hour Barclays waited until after the inevitable and simply walked back in cherry picked the bits of the company they wanted for an absolute bargain price. Why would shrewd investors in the football world act any differently? Of course there will be investors post administration and Rupert Lowe won't have to go looking for them they'll be knocking down his door. Perhaps we could concentrate on the fact that Lowe for all his shortcomings he is actually trying to act in best interest of shareholders and supporters alike and protect our interests and those of the club. This can only be done if anti-lowe protesters stop their ignorant refusal to accept the previous two seasons have really put us into meltdown and not Lowe's actions from his previous reign. If you believe Lowe set the snowball in motion why didn't those who took over stop it from rolling? Because they would have had to implement plans that would not be deemed fan friendly and therefore revert back to the fiscal prudence of Lowe's regime. Do we battle for our survival or wave the white flag and rollover and accept our fate? Or shall we ***** over Lowe like a bunch of paraniod teenage girls? Seriously most of you are turning this forum into a parody of a football fans forum. You are making the club looked ridiculous and it's no wonder we are classed of being one of the top 5 clubs with the most fickle and moany fanbase. I suspect Charlton fans come on here just to cheer themselves up, so perhaps its time we stop the pantomine guessing and simply concentrate on the reality and importance of support.

Is it a pointless dig rather than a relevant question just because it doesn't suit your own pointless agenda? Its the same old song from the anti-Lowe camp who are happy to rant unjustified about Lowe and the board and yet expect those who support the club to justify every comment and still be ridiculed. This forum with the return of the sanctimonious Duncan Holley and the pious ramblings of Wheeler not to mention the lunacy of the likes of Stanley and SaintRobbie it really is becoming a parody of a forum for debate and perhaps the whiole site should be relabelled 'Muppet Show'. Thankfully the most venomous and unhinged characters are not representative of the 12,000 fans who are still going to games and clearly don't post on this site but who knows what damage they are capable within their 'social circles'. The Beautiful South? Not for much longer if the lunatics once again try to take over the asylum instead of seizing on every little rumour or morsel of gossip to bring down their own house. You're in danger of turning this club into a house of cards unless you are able to assess the situation with an iota of balance and subjectivity. Many of you should try typing your words without showering your monitors in spit.

Duncan, is it your new years resolution to come on and attack those who reply with a soupcon of irony and sarcasm and in turn add a much needed little zest to a very tired forum obsessed with Lowe? Buctootim made a very valid point and most footballers will be guarded about their reasons for leaving simply because the sport is so incestous you don't want to burn your bridges - Jermain Defoe being a case in point. So I doubt you would get the real reason if you interviewed Cork yourself unless you were a very close confidante. Is it very black and white your reasons for resolving to ignore your previous resolve to stop posting? If you are going to adopt this sort of sanctimonious approach may I respectfully suggest your time may be better spent working on publishing more fodder for dusty and unloved coffee tables.

Lucy Pinder Daren Wheeler Stanley SaintRobbie I love being surrounded by pussies

That's very Stalinesque Robbie but unless I'm mistaken you don't speak 'for the people'. It may be more accurate to say - I don't support Lowe' - or 'some people I talk to ad allow them to have an opinion don't support Lowe'. Otherwise my friend you are dressing up your personal ideals as a MISGUIDED BELIEF that people don't support Lowe. Prove it or lose the role as forum despot.

I thought it was you Doug? Come on time to come out and let us all know what you really think of the current board compared to the previous two seasons. You know what to do, give us a well reasoned analysis based on all known facts, just like you use to do but seem to prefer angry short rants these days. I'm concerned Doug and I have a theory why your style may have changed, hope I'm wrong. Best regards SB

In FC's well considered post it is clear which category of 'fan' SaintRobbie falls and it's somewhere to the far right of the axis of evil if it needed clarification. Robbie you need to be a little more flexible in your approach, suggestions and attitude as your manic rants are actually doing more to entrench Lowe in his position than negogiating towards his removal. What really annoys me is the dressing up of opinions as fact, and whilst we recognise Lowe has made mistakes any sane individual would recognise he has had some success and people harp on about the plc but where were these vociferous dissenters before 2003? You all regularly talk about the points in history that support your arguments and mention dinosaurs like McMenemy in revered tones but ignore the moments in history that you presumably all supported and helped us to arrive at where we are today. All to convienient and unbalanced as usual. 'Lowe has done all that in spades and is therefore NOT TRUSTED and ASSOCIATED WITH FAILURE'. This quote made me smile because you could replace Lowe's name with McMenemy or Crouch and the cap still fits. 'A man who loses the faith of so many people over such a period time can only do that through negligence, ineptude, inability, poor salesmanship, poor media profiling, arrogance... the list goes on'. The list only goes on in the heads of the most rabid anti-lowe ergo anti-club fan. How do we really know Lowe has lost the faith of 'so many people'. Probably, only 10% (a generous estimate) of fans post on this forum - for good reason - and clearly a lot of the passion and hatred for Lowe exists solely on this site and is not reflected in the wider fan base and certainly the balanced mix of fans I come into contact with. Neither are the fans I meet happy clappy loweites but recognise in the absence of any suitable change (not change for the sake of change) that it is our moral duty as supporters to get behind the club and not desert it on what amounts to a personality clash. As FC said in his analogy some of you see Lowe as more Shakin Stevens than George Micheal and alludes to the fact it's simple prejudice and IMO probably goes back to the lunatic fringe comment, that let's face it every club is burdened with and we see it everyday on this forum. For instance, I'm not usually referred to as a '****', 'plant', 'mentalist', etc in everyday life to my face in writing but regularly so, and far worse on here. In fact how often are any of us told to f*** O** in all seriousness to our faces in the world outside? If people do with the regularity they do on here then I think we have a write to refer to them as a lunatic fringe or even and an under-class that most of us would wish to avoid. Lowe does not disunite the club, its the fans who chose to take a dislike to him to such a degree that they create a division of their own making. The conflict within our fanbase is of our own making. Lowe is only presiding over our demise because he chose along with the support from Wilde to come back and try and rescue us from the disaster that has been created over the previous two seasons. Were things as catastrophic when Lowe was ousted when he prudently was trying to implement some financial constraints to help plan and rebuild for a push back to the Premiership? If we are heading to League 2? The only reason Lowe will preside over that demise is that he chose to come back and try and help despite his shoddy treatment two years previously by the people he was trying to help/represent but there are none so blind as those who refuse to really look at a situation and in particular overcome their prejudice. Your post is full of paranoia posted as facts and a lot of it is perhaps based on Strachan's book but as we know there are two sides to every argument and we should suspend judgement until we are aware of the story from the other side but I suspect Lowe doesn't need to publish his memoirs just yet and will not cash in on his 'celebrity' until he actually retires from his position as anyone with good grace should actually do. I've never read Strachan's book which was probably ghost written anyway but I'm often thrown the quote 'Well I read in Strachan's book....' when it comes to supporting an anti-lowe agenda. Don't think there is a court in this country that will proverbially hang a man based solely on one side of the argument. Robbie, you don't understand why people continue to support Lowe because you refuse or are unable to look at the situation subjectively, honestly, dispassionately and without prejudice. Thankfully, those more important than our more subversive elements in our fan base can and I for one prefer to pin my hopes on them getting us out of this mess than calls for imaginary CEOs to be instated or mystery buyers to come forward. Take a reality check, and btw stop using the word cancer in this grammatically correct fashion as it's likely to insight anger and outrage from some of the really unhinged elements of this forum because of their close association with the disease and unable to understand, a word no matter how distasteful, can have two meanings. That said perhaps as in this case it's used against Lowe and not McmEnemy they will find it acceptable. Funny old world.

This is an example of the ill-conceived ideas that are regularly put forward by those who seem increasingly anti-club than anti-Lowe. This club could not attract a suitable buyer in the good times and now we find ourselves in a global economic trough you seriously expect this club to be brought out when everyday the news reports another well known company going to the wall. Even Ashley has resigned himself to keeping hold of Newcastle as he couldn't find a seller for one of the best supported clubs in the country and mercandising capabilities that we can only dream about. Even if we sold there is no guarantee the fans will return as most of the plastics aren't interested in who the chairman is, simply whether we are in the Premiership or not, and this was painfully evident when Lowe was removed last time to the expectation of increased gates. It simply did not happen. The new era is to support what we have and build this club back to what it was and that will take a lot longer than next season (ho ho). Its a time for patience and resolve and rediscovering the true meaning of supporting your team instead of spitting out your dummies over the fact that the inevitable happened and after 27 years we got relegated. It was merely fortunate it didn't happen sooner in 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997 and 1998. There were also plenty of other occassions between promotion and relegation when we skirted close to the drop than we would have hoped and like the rest of our peers we have no divine right to top flight football and certainly not with a fanbase as fickle and divisive as ours. Selling the club is not our only hope provided fans like yourself have the humility (like Wilde) to swallow your pride and support the only known and viable way forward at the momenmt. Failing that keep your ill-thought out opinions and vitrolic abuse to yourself as it undermines those genuine fans who support the club but have more viable and realistic ideas about moving forward without Lowe at the helm. Those ideas mainly revolve around a complete change in personnel and business approach to generate revenue and those anti-lowe's worth listening to are not foolish enough to spout off about milking some cash cow. Unfortunately, these posters are in the minority and it's the venomous vacuous vessels such as yourself that are damaging your own far fetched dreams of finding a buyer. Look up a few ideas from Wes Tender and we may start to find some common ground but even then it needs some assumptions that are far from guaranteed but at least unlike your rants they have an air of credibility. In the meantime, I prefer to back the best known alternative we have and I respectfully suggest you and the rest shut up and do the same.

Excellent post FC and one that will receive little or no acknowledgement from those fans whose vitrolic outbursts on this forum and no doubt in their little circle of mates are inadvertently influencing a stay away campaign for those to weak willed or even fearful to stand up for their club and support them when they need it most. As you say, 'if you aint part of the solution....'. It was great to see the ground yesterday back to capacity but I also thought it was a moment of unwitting pathos when the Manure fans started chanting 'you're only here to see United'. Of course for about 10,000 Saints 'fans' that was completely true and I hope the moment wasn't lost on them. If the likes of struggling teams like Norwich and Derby can regularly pull in 24k+ crowds why can't we? Can I suggest the ignorant few who as you say were as quiet as mice up to 2003 and who now wish to start another pointless campaign to oust the CEO and create further divide without plan are actually the main culprits of the division and decling income by their almost 'holligan' style of forcing their ill thought out opinions down the throats of others that make many of us ashamed to actually come out and say we support the club and everything they are trying to achieve or at least keep our opinions to ourselves unless we raise our hoods, umbrellas, etc to protect ourselves from a shower of spit from idiotic venomous rants. Congratulations once again on a great post and one that the rabid anti-club fan can't protest against as there is no attempt to rewrite history and clear reasoning to prove their current actions are creating the divide and contributing to our cashless existence. History shapes us but it doesn't help us resolve the problems of today at a time when we need to look forward and not back. McMenemy like Thompson. Merrington and even Le God are merely cashing in on their history and need to take a leaf out of the books of Charlton and Robson to name but a few. Do we hear unsupportive tripe from Benali? Why? He chose to be part of the solution unlike the real Judas and his 30 coins of expenses and fools gold of managerial advice.

Engel, thanks for the response and I hope you don't mind me taking the time to reply as you raise some interesting points some of which I agree and some that actually highlight the whole issue I have with McMenemy and those who are willing to overlook his obvious shortcomings. Funny how we all do that, human nature I guess unless the ardent anti-Lowes are all perfect. Yes LM had unrivalled success than any other Saints manager and won a trophy. Whether that achievement was outstanding when you compare what Paisley, Revie and Clough were achieving is a matter for debate. I think the use of outstanding as marking the achievement out against our peers in Division 1 at that time is to use a poetic licence but in terms of the club's history then maybe you can argue it was the best period in our history and outstanding for a small club with a scruffy little ground. However, whilst I recognise the achievement is not diminished just because it was over 30 years ago the world of football has changed beyond recognition and we are probably all the worse for it but as a club it is undoubtedly harder to survive in the current environment let alone win major trophies. As a result does the Strachan/Lowe era that culminated in the 2003 cup final appearance actually represent a far more signficant achievement than the success McMenemy bought to the club? Not least because we had some success and respectability on the pitch but we had a club and infrastructure to take forward into the next era. England International's at Southampton? For all Lawrie's great contribution as a manager we didn't develop at all as a club and now just have our history books as a result of his success. McMenemy achieved success but was it outstanding even in his own era? No not really when it wasn't even that much of a shock for a division 2 club to win the FA Cup. Lowe has also achieved success and delivered something for us all that goes beyond an engraving on a piece of silverware. 1966 and all that, clearly a good club side would beat that England line up today but obviously we will never know so its consigned to history as an outstanding achievement in the history books. The sad thing is many players had to sell their medals to finance their retirement rather than work the media circus and bad mouth and insult the hand that gave them their good times. Mcmenemy can talk about 76 and all that to his hearts content but his archaic views on the current situation are uttererly irrelevant as you say he is from another era and cannot diminish what has been acheived in the current era. Lawrie's career isn't exactly untarnished even at Saints and with a little more magnanimity he could have been this club's life long diplomat along the lines of Sir Bobby Charlton but in terms of having respect for your club and all those in it, past and present, then in my very humble opinion McMenemy isn't fit to even shine his shoes. Might make a good job of washing his dirty laundry though provided he can do it in public. LM is a parasite and responsible for his lack of position and recognition at the club that IMO to a better man would have been a job for life and deservedly so, for his 'outstanding' achievement.

Very true and that is why the vast majority of Saints fan prefer to go to games and support the team and leave the idiotic acts of symbolism and caterwauling to the 10's of ardent anti-lowe supporters on this forum. These 10's have more in common with the World War 1 generals than fans of this club, they sit behind the comfort of their desks (keyboards) encouraging protest and song from the 'troops' of ordinary fans but not able to put 'themselves over the top' to lead the charge. At least Chorley had the guts to do it (an idiotic action nonetheless) but not many would be prepared to risk the consequences of an indefinite and deserved ban from SMS. Those who were cajoled and 'encouraged' to get behind the last Lowe out campaign have all too painfuly seen the fruits of their own labour over the past few years and this time i think we have all been shamed into silence. Let Lowe get on with the job of saving our skins until a suitable offer is on the table - until then there is no alternative, unless you have the radical views of Scargill in the 80's believing that you can profit mining from a pit with little coal.

And no doubt dear ald Lawrie waived any fee for his services (if offered) from the Guardian. IMO McMenemy is stil looking to this club to milk it to boost his income and in that way is more of a parasite than Lowe who actually has to work for a living to protect his income. Just my opinion of course but when most people are off retiring gracefully and trying to live of their pension Lawrie appears to prefer to bite the hand that fed. Legends are normally based on folly and to follow Lawrie McMenemy, well I prefer Rupert Lowe's chances of pulling the sword from the stone, than a dubious legend of an era unrecognisable in football terms from todays.

Keep up the good work.

I agree with you UP except your inference it's a mentality issue. JP does not strike me as either stubborn or crasse but his language shortcomings do not do him any favours and whilst his approach to team selection can be baffling I have no doubt he is a good coach. It wasn't so long ago we were criticising Burley for being neither. JP is clearly working hard although his inexperience of our opponents and the need to change approach for some games is beginning to show through - at times quite badly. Lowe is many things but he is isn't thick and will like the rest of us be well aware of an impending crisis if nothing is done. The last thing I want him to do is knee jerk and start making wholesale changes when they aren't necessarily needed and I don't agree that Lowe or JP are unaware we have a problem and I don't doubt discussions are going ahead to agree the best way to approach the rest of the season. Things do need to change PDQ, but that change can be quite subtle and its the approach not the mentality as I'm convinced the mentality exists that both want the best for the club as they have a professional stake in the club being a success and of course a financial one for Lowe. Give It To Ron raises a good question with regard to Gorre. I don't know the reasoning behind his appointment but if its along the lines I am suggesting that an Iain Dowie type could perform then you would have to say he has failed in his mandate and be dealt with accordingly. We don't need employees we just need to pay a fee to a freelance professional. Benali 'on the bench' would not fit the criteria (JP just as well stand on the touchline with a pit bull) and we ideally need JP to be advised by an ex-player/manager with very recent experience and still actively involved in the game that their knowledge is current and relevent. Dowie as a consultant until the end of the season fits the bill perfectly.

Not at all Mike - see para 5 first sentence. JP I believe is a good coach and simply his experience of coming through the Dutch process which is arguably the benchmark for the ROW in terms of nuturing player talent adds kudos to his experience. Clearly, what JP is lacking is not so much his understanding of the English game (afterall we all play to the same rules alledgedly) but an understanding of our opponents and I think we have lost as many points through the manager's naiveity as we have through the player's inexperience. There must be an experienced person within the club who knows the CCC well and can advise JP accordingly. This is a role for a football person with current experience who can work as an an advisor to JP but not above him. The likes of Lowe, McMenemy and any other Saints pundit need not apply. Would it be to radical or foolhardy to suggest we pay someone like Iain Dowie a small consultancy fee to provide JP a report on our opponents for each game until the end of the season and suggestions on how we may best select from our playing resources to address obvious threats/weaknesses of our opponents. If we can all get through to the end of the season with our CCC status intact and with the current management structure then we can push on next year all the better for the experience but JP does need some experienced and current advice IMO in the short term.

Bottom line LS is that Lowe will be damned if he backs his manager and damned if he doesn't. If he backs him those hell bent on undermining the club will say he is too arrogant to bring a stop to a failed experiment that he initiated in good faith, to reduce costs and do something a bit different to get the best out of the club's principal resorce - the academy. If he sacks JP and replaces him with a more traditional manager and things don't chnage for the better the old manager merry go round argument will come out. We don't have the revenue to make major changes and its a pity we are not like a club like Derby who despite all their failings in the past 18 months are still pulling in avg. gates of 27-28k and whose fans had a silent protest last weekend more powerful I would suggest because of their numbers as they have stayed loyal than fan's voting with their feet or threatening boycotts which unfortunatley is the way of the spoilt Saints fan. The latter action just entrenches those not to succumb to what essentially boils down to some form of moral blackmail but an action very ill-judged at best. Would you dig deep when you have idiots like Chorley showing some of his old thuggery towards you and who appears to have the support at least of the old school Saints fan who's motives for attending games in the 70's and 80' weren't the same as they are today. So with no money available and no way at the moment of increasing gate revenue we only have the option of players sales to boost the squad but i would suggest the majority of that cash will need to be retained or used to reduce debt to offset a decline in ticketing revenue as a result of the general economic malaise (which does not appear to have filtered through to clubs like Norwich and Derby) and the fickle Saints fan spolit by 27 years of top flight action and still finding it difficult to adjust and buy into a rebuilding plan that will take years and not months to achieve. I was away for the Plymouth game but I would agree that the defeat to Notts Forest was us hitting bottom not unike our 5-0 defeat to Hull last season. However, either side a poor run we have two excellent performances to hang our hats of hope upon. Sunday's game, clearly showed that whilst Jan can work with and develop the younger players his game plans to match our opponents is clearly lacking and I wonder if anyone is actually helping him on how to deal with the threat of the opposition. I also think because of his work with the younger players he may be slightly transfixed with what they can deliver on the training pitch over what they are likely to deliver in reality, Gobern and Smith being an obvious example. Gobern had already shown IMO, this season that he was not ready for the step up to being selected for the 1st 11 and we were lucky to get away with his selection on Sunday. JP needs some help and advice and I for one don't buy into the thought that Lowe picks or even influences the team in the same way he would not expect JP or Wotte to influence or advise on how he should manage our creditors. The fact remains though that JP has made some strange even Burleyesque substitutions and starting line up selections and needs urgent help. Euell and BWP should not have been on the bench on Sunday with Smith (hopeless) and Gobern (not ready) in the starting 11. Perhaps by selecting Gobern, JP felt he was replacing one midfielder with another who can't tackle and passess 90% of all balls to his side or behind. On that point it proved that Surman is not as important to this team as we may like to think and Lallana even less so, as he is just another player with potential and we adorn him with the title of one of our best players. On the strength of his performances alone he is not. I would love to see the back of Skacel and I thought Mills was actually a better LB when I have seen him play. Skacel is lazy, switches off during games and his dead ball delivery for a supposed expert is woeful. His performance against Forest i think in better times would have been his last and perhaps our only hope is to get him loaned out like last year and get some more committed experienced loanees in to bolster the team. On that point we need to loan in players from the PL or the CCC and not from the clubs in the lower leagues - Smith being a startling case in point. So we keep JP and get him some better support (if he is already getting this then he needs to start listening). We sell Surman and Lallana to the highest bidder and realistically we loan out Skacel but prefer to sell. We then do all we can to retain the services of Cork, Davies and BWP and look to acquire a LB (our back 4 looked good on Sunday with the exception of the supposedly most experienced player), a strong CM with pace and ability to score from his position and another attacking option to pressurise and motivate McGoldrick who despite his goal on Sunday the jury is still very much out on the worthiness of his overall contribution. Therefore, do nothing is not an option and Lowe needs to go beyond merely just supporting JP as he needs help IMO especially with team selection and that may avoid some strange subs. Lowe is definitely in a Catch 22 situation but one that has as much to do with the fans volatility towards him than any poor decision making he has made the reasons behind which none of us are really party to. JP may be a mistake but who is to say given the change in playing resources Pearson would have fared any better? JP appears to be too focused on his youth options overlooking the more experienced players and Pearson focussed on the old pros and bought more of that type in overlooking the youth option. Reality, is if we had more money neither would have been first choice and now i suspect we have less money available given forecasted revenues vs actual, so all we can do is tweak what we have and we have enough IMO to stay up which was always the goal, that and avoid administration. Did Crouch and McMenemy throw any money in to support the cause? Did Crouch offer but only in the form of a loan? Hardly going out on a limb is it? This club needs to be self sufficient for its long term survival and so perhaps we all have to start to dig deep, in return for 90 mins of football and supporting your team.

Been away for an enjoyable week off and come back and it seems i've missed all the fun, even if nothing else changes, such as , Daren Wheeler getting hyper defensive and hyper long in his own defence instead of forumulating a coherent and expletive free argument about the future of the club without causing it any damage in the short term. Then we have Chorley once again reverting to type. Might get himself a reputation as a bit if a coin throwing thug if he is not careful. The only surprising thing is that the more intelligent anti-Lowe poster such as Wes Tender, Chap in the Chapel etc seem to think it is appropriate to align themselves or worse salute a person who alledgedly is a bigger Man U fan than a Saint. Wes, I for one can't read your views dispassionatley and with reason when you seem to support this alledgedly ex-football hooligan who clearly still has a few old traits lurking in his pschye. If we attribute political credentials to the protaganists then Chorley is more Dennis Skinner than a Tony Benn and really just a bit of an old rogue, a parody of a Saints fan today who shouldn't been seen let alone heard. All the while the team put in an excellent performance yesterday that belied their league position and gave notice to those who bothered to watch that we should remain confident of achieving our CCC survival. JP's decision making is definitely open to question and I suspect Lowe and the rest have the situation under the closest scrutiny and balancing JP's performance and potential with the cost of replacement. Yesterday's game suggests there is no need to start panicking just yet and so lets stop second guessing the action of Lowe and if we sell Lallana and Surman so be it. Their contribution has not matched their much lauded reputation but certainly JP needs to be told that Gobern in CM does not work and should be replaced with Euell and likewise BWP for Smith. Perry and Cork are our best pairing in CD and Skacel must be sold as he is very poor and difficult to justify at every angle except his ability to win cheap free kicks. No doubt Chorley will be at the game on Sunday taking up his position in the Northam, COYRs?