tajjuk

Fonte and Yoshida is the best options we have at centre back going forward, with Boruc behind them. I can see what NA was trying to do, he was obviously worried by Andy Carroll and thought if Jos could have a good game against anyone in this league it's the lump that is Carroll, I'm not sure Yoshida wouldn't have be as comfortable against him as he's not as big and strong like Jos and neither is Fonte, who seems to have this habit of trying to out battle big strikers which he isn't big or strong enough to do, he tried the same thing against Jason Roberts last year and Roberts just bullied him out of the game. Look at what he tried to do when he gave away the penalty, sometimes you have to concede that the guy is bigger and stronger than you and work out other ways to defend against him It seems NA has banished Fox from the team if you believe the rumours he is fit and with Richardson injured and Shaw injured he had limited options so thought best to have Yoshi, one of our best defenders on the pitch even out of position, over say Dickson or Butterfield. It worked as well until we hit the self destruct button after the re-start.

I can't argue with that, however as I said we don't know how much priority and focus was put towards defensive signings, I'm sure Alpine will jump on and start moaning about the 2 months spent chasing Ramirez around Europe, but that doesn't tell us anything. You can say NA wanted more defenders (which he did, that's a fact), Reed is in charge of player recruitment (another fact), not enough quality defenders were signed (another fact), therefore it's Reed's fault but that's a very black and white approach and we don't know the full details. We could have attempted to buy 20 different defenders and none of them came off for various reasons and only tried to sign a handful of attacking players and they did. In those hypothetical circumstances you couldn't suggest that Les Reed wasn't doing his job. "So before Adkins is sacked, Cortese needs to look at Reed. If Cortese backs Reed over Adkins then he has let the Adkins, the club and the fans down." Agree with this wholeheartedly, if Reed failed to target/find more quality defenders despite NA requesting them then he has failed NA and is very much culpable to our current position. NC would know though as presumably he was aware of all approaches because he had to sanction the financial side of the bids.

He played quite a few times at LB for Crystal Palace, I would say he is fairly comfortable there but obviously better at right back. However I think as a 'limited' full back richardson will offer more defensive stability than Fox IMO. I think CLyne playing on the left will weaken him more offensively than defensively. I also think it's the best option we have until we can get another left back in.

Possibly but I would put it down to decision making and concentration of individual players not being good enough.

Quite possibly, we don't know the circumstances, we don't know who we tried to sign, how much we offered and why the transfers didn't go through, we don't know if we ran out of money after spending it on attacking players or we just weren't willing to pay the sums being asked for the quality of player on offer. We don't know whether between NA and Les Reed our current defence was rated to be good enough and more attacking quality was therefore prioritised. Too many if's and buts for a particular person to take the blame. We might know more in January if and when we sign some better defenders. Clearly we need at least a better centre back and left back than we have.

Very naive comment, formation is irrelevant when your Centre back is handling the ball in the box and pulling someones pony tail or slashing a wide shot wildly into your own net, or charging into the back of the striker giving away penalties. Over three quarters of our goals conceded are down to individual defensive errors, nothing to do with the formation. Even with a 4-4-2 that the ignorant 'Mike Bassett' types want on here we would have still conceded those goals and probably scored less (Wigan at home as an example) because we definitely don't have the players for that formation to work in the premiership. Still would have been the same back four making f*ck ups. The set up on Saturday was working well, we were away from home, dominating possession and generally keeping West Ham quiet, then the team decides to give West Ham a two goal advantage out of nothing. The formation and our style of play isn't the issue, it's the personnel at the back.

Boruc Richardson Fonte Yoshida Clyne Davis Morgan Mayuka Gaston Lallana Lambert. Boruc in goals despite that bad start because he is a top keeper. Back four that played second half v villa, richardson told to not venture too far forward unless safe to do so (and then able to cross diagonally to Lambert when we need a different option) and Mayuka instead of Puncheon because he's quicker and would be able to go both sides, so occasionally might actually go down the wing for once rather than cutting in and running into someone which Puncheon tends to do. Having two wide players in Lallana and Mayuka that are both footed is something we should be taking advantage off.

Top post, about sums it up, all this rubbish about formations, style of play, substitutions, board room pressures, none of it is relevant. Individual defensive errors have cost us points. Our attacking play, formation and general team shape has been good enough to earn us far more than the 4pts we have but we have gifted easy goals to virtually every team we played. West Ham is a clear example of this, we were away from home but controlling the game and looked more likely to create something an score, suddenly in two minutes of madness we gifted the opposition the game. We don't have the wide players for 4-4-2 IMO, in the Championship we did well with 4-4-2 because it turned out that essentially man for man we were better than a lot of teams, also our wide players were relatively quick in that league, but in the premiership Lallana isn't quick enough to play an MR or ML IMO, he will end up more often than not too far away from the goal to be a threat. Same goes for the otherside, Puncheon isn't good enough nor is he that quick. Man Utd in Valencia have one of the best traditional wingers in the premiership, he hugs the touch line, is quick, can cross and can dribble past his man. He gives them width that you need in a 4-4-2, Lallana and Puncheon aren't wingers, they are Attacking Midfielders, they want the ball and come inside to get it. Personally I think the formation we play is a natural fit for the players we have, I also don't think we have seen enough of our full strength team yet. Yoshida is still settling and due to injuries to clyne and richardson has had to play out position. The keeper position has changed 3 times which own;t help the back four, our star playmaker has played 2 1/2 games, our new wide pace man has picked up an injury and hasn't been fit to start. I think this is our strongest team in our strongest formation if all fit:- Boruc Richardson Fonte Yoshida Clyne Schneiderlin Davis Mayuka Gaston Lallan Lambert Boruc needs game time to get match fit and sharp, when he does he will be quality. The wide combinations will work well, Mayuka has the pace and trickery to play as a more traditional wide player, getting at his man, knocking it into space and crossing form the byline. This will put less emphasis on Richardson to get forward, he can instead be a little more cautious but still be in position to cross from deep positions diagonally to Rickie who peels onto the right full back. Lallan is close to the goal where we need him cutting in and linking with Rickie and Gaston, he will also open up space for Clyne to run into who has the pace to be a more attacking full back. Davis and Morgan can protect the back four but also the 3 man combination with Gaston means you have 3 quality passes in the midfield to retain possession, but the presence of gaston in front of them puts less pressure on them to join the attack. The system and set up has generally work well at creating chances and keeping possession. And statistically we aren't conceding a mass load of chances but the defensive errors just make it too easy to score against us.

You are, but I can't be bothered to argue, it's a stupid thread and just deserves the giant facepalm.

Schneiderlin plays deep but doesn't sit in front of the back four you are correct, however what you describe is still the role of a midfielder. What you describe is essentially 5 at the back, or wing backs and is similar to what Barcelona did last year. The only reason you would ever consider a formation like this is when you get over run through the middle which isn't happening, we also do not have the players to adopt such a system. For the sweeper to be able to get out wide to help the fullbacks he would need to be very quick and comfortable under pressure when in possession. If he drops back into a central 3 he would need to be tall and good in the air, and the central defenders either side of him would need to be comfortable going wide to deal with danger from the wings and again none of our players are. The quality of player you need to play such a position is very high, he needs to be a complete all rounder, be tactically and positionally sound whilst reading the game well to be in the right position at the right time, he would need the attributes of both a midfielder and central defender. We don't have such a player, it is not a case of just putting a defender there, it would be no help defensively, in fact it might cause so much confusion that it we become worst defensively, and we are then worse offensively because we have an extra defender on the pitch who is isn't good enough to contribute to the attacking phase. Just wouldn't work, we don't have a good enough player to do it. Sergio Basquets has done it for Barca, Steven Gerrard could potentially play that role, Phil Jones could possibly do it and Rio from about 8 years ago could do it.

You do also know in that article they say this "Adkins' mood will unlikely have been helped by confirmation that Southampton's £12 million summer signing Gaston Ramirez will miss the next six weeks as he recovers from a leg injury, with Southampton's home match against Tottenham next Sunday seemingly becoming a must-win game for the club's under-fire manager. Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/175813.html#uM4lOJ0rXu8Pzo2S.99 " as if it happened on Sunday, when in fact the ESPN article it links to is for the 9th October and they have changed 'up to 6 weeks' to "will miss the next 6 weeks". Despite the club confirmed nothing except that he wasn't going on internaitonal duty and what sort of injury it was. Point is journalist cherry pick information and add in their agenda to make a story, exact same thing you seem to be doing. As far as I can tell Adkins is just responding to speculation and being realistic, he's lost 6 games out of 8 and recognises that it's poor form and could potentially put his job at risk. I see nothing in his words that even hints at this "confirmation at the weekend from the manager that he is not fully In control of team affairs and transfers." You have essentially made this up. The guy plays attacking football and wants to play possession football, these are the "processes" he eludes to, they have been present with NA way before he manages us, it's just the club happens to share the same principles. All he is saying is that he is not going to set the team to 'park the bus' or start hoofing it like West Ham do as that isn't his or the clubs ethos, it isn't board room pressure, it's the way NA has always managed and it's responding to external media criticism of the way his team has played. He believes that the team can be successful in the premiership by playing good attacking, possession football however they aren't doing it because of costly defensive errors. Sorry but your whole post is just extrapolating comments, making 2=2 = 5 and using media rumours and speculation. There are no facts in anything you have said. So is Adkins job untenable? NO.

I know how you feel, so many threads and posts on here make me want to just put the giant facepalm in reply. The level of stupidity from some people is literally astonishing.

61% possession, same number of attempts, 81% pass completion to West Hams very poor 67%, won more aerial duels. We gifted an average West Ham team that can't pass 3 easy goals, when we were controlling the game. It is purely these defensive errors, they need cutting out, the rest of the team is doing well. To go away from home and dominate possession and to out pass the opposition is great but we let it down in 2 minutes of sloppiness.

Don't want him but if it happens you have to get on with it. There are worse managers would could appoint.

No, he's been amongst our best performers this season. it's debatable whether Chaplow is championship standard, if we had loaned him out this summer I could see him sitting on the bench of a lot of championship clubs.

Well the rumour is that Fox isn't injured and he hasn't been near the first team for a while so we have no replacement left back and fox still can't get in the team!

No I'm saying he would have chosen West Ham over us because he played there before and was well liked by there fans, he had some of his best times in a West Ham shirt. Huth wouldn't have come and Stoke wouldn't have sold. Doubt Heitinga would have come anyway but I think he would have been too much or at least more than we were willing to pay. Nelsen is 34 and is doing nothing for QPR and would be on high wages. Bassong went for close to £6 million, hasn't helped Norwich that much and was part of a relegated Wolves team last year. In fact I remember him making several basic errors for wolves. Turner is no better than what we have, even now. Rose is a midfielder and looks suspect at left back (was directly at fault for Newcastle's goal on Sunday). I'm not going to even comment on Shorey. Thing is can you honestly say that of those players who you have listed, if we had signed them in the summer that they would have been better than Fonte, Hooiveld and Fox? Especially for like £5 million? Especially as a lot of them are defending just as poorly at their current clubs. Hindsight is wonderful thing but I don't think anyone here or at the club thought we would be defending this badly. Most of those on that list aren't even marginally higher in quality than what we already have.

Firstly he's not that good, secondly he went to West Ham pretty early and would have always chosen them ahead of us because he had played for them before and was well liked. Finally if he's so good, why did Villa let him go so easily?

Firstly he's not that good, secondly he went to West Ham pretty early and would have always chosen them ahead of us because he had played for them before and was well liked.

You can add in that Clyne has been injured, I think Fox has been injured, Mayuka has been carrying a knock, Boruc wasn't and still isn't match fit. Yoshida has had to play out of position. Even Puncheon has been injured. I don't think we have seen a team containing Mayuka, Ramirez, Clyne, Yoshida, and Boruc yet, especially a match fit one.

A match fit Artur Boruc will be winning us points crucial points.

You know I looked at this thread before I went home yesterday but didn't have time to reply. I was going to say this whole 'Premiership Experience' line is complete tosh and use Newcastle and Scott Dann as examples! Weren't we linked with Dann for about £9 million? Glad we didn't sign him. So essentially what he said. With the key bit being:- "but good quality with experience isn't something other clubs give away easily" Please someone in this thread list some proven, quality centre back or left back with premiership experience who we could have afforded and would have wanted to sign in the summer.

Yep good post there are still 30 games to go and loads of points to play for, the defending at times has been shambolic, but it seems to be moments of madness and then the whole team losses confidence and the bad defending spirals. However the set up and shape is still looking good and I still think we will get it right even with the players we have.

Can I ask who we should have signed? "experienced top flight players" Wouldn't said players already be: A. Playing for other premiership clubs and unwilling to move to a newly promoted team even if their club was willing to sell (unlikely) or B. Outside the premiership and therefore an unknown quantity, I suppose their are players playing for Spanish. Italian, German, Dutch, French clubs of a certain level in their respective 'top flight' that might want to come to us. However there is no guarantee they would do any better, for example a Centre back from mid table Serie A club is used to a lot slower pace of play and a lot less physicality. or C. Got relegated with a premiership club and is now playing championship football (the Scott Danns/Curtis Davies of this world) that are probably not any better than what we have as there is a reason their team got relegated with them in it. or D. Get players from premiership teams who have fallen out of favour, a good option of getting quality players for a lesser club and for lower prices however concern over why they have fallen out of favour - ability faded, injury issues, attitude etc. or E. Buy a good championship defender who has performed well for his championship club over several years and hope he will be able to make the step up. As far as I can tell we tried or have signed players from all categories if you go by rumours:- A. We were linked with the likes of Huth and Shawcross. B.Yoshida signed, we tried to sign Buttner, we were linked with Boilsen form Ajax, that Douglas from twente and a centre back from Barcelona. C. Scott Dann and Curtis both linked. D. Dawson being linked again, upson? E. We signed Clyne, linked with Rhys Williams. I think essentially the players just weren't really there and the ones we were linked with or tired to sign the deals couldn't be agreed. We don't know the reasons, but to suggest there was some sort of policy at the club that ignores signing defenders is plain silly.

We need to play positively it plays to our strengths and their weaknesses, we aren't going to be able to 'keep it tight' against a spurs including bale and co, but defensively they aren't great, aging Gallas, both fullbacks are much better going forward than defensively. Get the crowd behind the team, get in the spurs players faces lots of pressing like against Man Utd, get Lambert unsettling Gallas and I'd like to see Mayuka on the right with Clyne, not only is that a lot of pace to help deal with bale but it'll give Bale something to think about defensively as well, we need him away from our last third as much as possible. A unlikely return for Gaston would be a big boost as well, anyone know how he's doing? His quick passing would unsettle the spurs defence, similar what Chelsea did to spurs on Saturday. Finally I think Boruc will start, he needs games and he has a big personality and lots of experience that I think means he will recover well from Saturday and come back stronger. For me:- Boruc Clyne Fonte Yoshida Fox Morgan Davis JWP Mayuka Lallana Lambert