Bon Call Night

Good does that mean you are going to join one of their fans forums and go and support them now instead of complaining about the price of bread in this country?

Yep a decent result today, a winnable game midweek, this is the key to get the fans thriough the gates and geta Sheff Utd style atmosphere going. Coventry is a difficult game for us next Saturday so points midweek a must!!!!!!

I think you are being a little pedantic, but in reality no. If the players fail to be disciplined or good enough to follow his instructions what can he do about it. FWIW I would say his error has been pivcking his best 11 rather than the best team. According to many (and I beleive you may have been one Mike, who felt pre season was no barometer) the preseason games were of little consequence. What it did show was that when nothing was on the games the formation was effective. They kids have had a baptism of fire in this league, playing Birmingham, Ipswich, Derby, QPR and Cardiff out of the seven games we have played. Yes some believed that we could achieve a play off place, we may still do so. However we do have to give the kids a chance to find their feet and then push on. Crystal Palce found themselves in a similar position to us last year, a lot of youngsters and a poor start to the season and look where they finished. Warnock, may be a grizzly old dog in this league but I believe he has as many limitations, if different, to those of JP. So you can sit in your seat and moan about it or you can try and encourage and applaud the good bits however little and however expected of players at this level and maybe a couple around you will join in, then a few more and so on. This whole club has been surrounded by negativity for years and as with short selling it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Those who have dislijked Lowe for nothing more than his class, have had something to beat the bloke up with and others have jumped on the band wagon looking for a scape goat after relegation and it has got out of hand. So it is time to try and find the smalll positives in the games and magnify those. Then maybe, it will be like the good old days again when we knew we were not going to win the league but the important thing was teams ahd to work to win against us. That is what is lost at St Marys'. Saints fans supporting the team, and not looking for a political arguement with those in the boardroom. I challenge you to go back 30 years, and try and remember why you went to the Dell. Ball and Williams weaving magic in midfield (look at some of the one touch stuff now being played by Schnederlin, Gillet and Holmes), the likes of Osgood and McDougall up front (hmm difficult comparison but we all agree we need a finisher), lets see Pickering and ??? (could put any of the current centre halves in here, no big names but the try), Peach/ Nick Holmes, Surman/Dyer, Wells or Davies??? There are a lot of comparisons and with the exception of up front, which I think JP has identified as a problem, there are a lot of comparisons, what has changed is our expectations. Who has changed those expectations? Well probably Lowe, but the whole world has changed we just need to get back to a bit of reality now.

Of course he is but he has little control once they cross the white line other than to shout at them - perhaps he could utilise the great depth we have in the squad. :confused: To me he is more than capable at the man management stuff and the like of BWP and McGoldrick will be summoned to the office today or asked questions when they review the video of the game. Perhaps a bit of blind faith is needed by both the fans and the players over the next 6-8 weeks!!

Yes I was at yesterdays game and if you want to get into a p1ssing contest have been to all but the Exeter game this season what about you? The fact tat the players do not do as they are told is not JP's fault, in the case of BWP he has never done what the manager has asked of him and in DMcG case he is not good enough and already believes he is Charlie big balls now he is in the first team. His tantrum yesterday shows he is not as good as he thinks he is. I would like to see one more senior pro in the team for sure possibly Euell when fit in the midfield. With regard to our finances and others in this league I think you need to compare like with like. We have a great stadium, a great academy and training facilities, they cost money. Our income may be similar to the others but w have neither a rich leader like the Gold Brothers at Birmingham or those at QPR and a few others in this league, or the cheap facilities like Bristol City, Colchester, Barnsley etc so in that respect we have the worst of both worlds. I disagree with your view about the younger players, they will either prove themselves good enough like Lallana, Gillet, Schniderlin etc or be found out like McGoldrick, Dyer and BWP. They may need to be rotated out where possible to give them a break physically but this league is as much about mental toughness as it is physical. You may well be right about why we are in this mess, however I will also cite the ridiculous divide between Premiership and CCC, meaning a self sustaining club like Saints has a narrow window of opportunity to succeed, one wrong move which I believe was the failure to improve after the Cup Final can lead to an uncontrollable downward spiral. I also believe that we made huge errors in judgement after that as well both in the boardroom and managerially. The list of blame is endless and to just lay it at Lowe's door is ridiculous, I accept he was the man who made some of the decisions and the buck stopped with him, but the incomptence of others like Redknapp and the players should not be brushed over lightly. As fans we proved last season what out and out support could do against Shefff utd, and as I said earlier the Northam are doing their best to recreate that atmosphere, we need people in the ground to satisfy the bank balance and to cheer the team on. The misery's who sit near me in the Kingsland need to take a look at themselves as well and understand that this process is going to take some time, and the sooner we get a couple of wins together the sooner the belief will come in the system.

Almost as good as Pearsons record then. And in answer to your question, he is building a completely new side a little longer than 7 games. I just wish people would be a little more supportive, unfortunately the goings on over the last 5 years at this club has left nothing but cynics and idioits stating their views.

You really are a prat. Keep sniping from half way across Europe you know little of what is happening here and even less about the way the team is shaping up. For me we have found out how to attack as we did earlier in the season and yesterday we proved we could defend the reality is we need to find a balance between the two. But whilst there are idiots out there staying away from the club because of beer quality, seating arrangements or a pathetic social class issue with the current CEO then things will not get any better. Here is the REAL reason - WE HAVEN'T GOT ANY MONEY!!!! We have to make do with what we have. Please do not roll out the line about Lowe getting us into this mess because after 3 seasons that does not wash. The kids will get better but booing them off the pitch isn't going to help, the Northam stand was brilliant yesterday trying to support the side and from where I sat most of the booing came from the Kingsland. That says to me that so called hard line supporters know a little bit more than those who are supposed to have a more balanced view.

I kinda understand you point of view, and living less than a mile from the ground does make things a little easier for me. My first season of watching Saints was the season we got promoted, I then had a League Cup final, several years of watching them in Europe and finishing in the top six, even runners up. But probably from the end of the Chris Nicholl era saints have been going backwards for me. With the occassional blip under Strachan we have not been a good side. Like you I am happy to debate the Lowe, Wilde whoever issue, and I think we both know that mistakes were made when we were relegated and since. However I do fail to see the point in the stay aways using Lowe being there as a reason. I suspect losing the fire is down to who we are playing every week, it is not the same when the seasons big game for us is Birmingham and Reading rather than Mnachester United and Portsmouth.

Well if your interested - no I didn't. I just think the bad beer, can't sit in the corner stuff, along with those who stay away because of Lowe are the people damaging our football club more than Lowe, Wilde or Crouch. I don't care how camp you are - if it is a money issue then fine, I am struggling myself at the moment and will miss a few games because of it but that is the only excuse I will offer. I have not lost sight of what I enjoy and that is watching 11 guys in red and white stripes representing SFC with passion and pride - I dont give a sh1t as to who is in the boardroom once the whistle blows and that is why I enjoy it. That is how I started watching football - not knowing who the chairman was, but I could recognise a Saints player from the other end of Hampshire, that is what mattered. Yes it is expensive, yes I would love it to be cheaper, but we are representative of the price for football in this league so I guess it is a fair price. Whether dropping the price by a tenner would compensate it self I don't know - you would need a clever economist to tell you that. But I do know that if you drop the price by a pound you need to get another 600-800 people for that, so if you drop it a fiver do you thibnk we will get another 3000-4000 people?

I am sorry, there is plenty as I said. Restaurants in the high street and Oxford Street having their doors knocked on after he had left La Margherita at town quay at 2 or 3 in the morning. As for their not being pictorial evidence I am sure there is. To pick up on Nickh's point about drinking, you are right some of us have three or four beers of an evening and function quite well the next day, an alcoholic has a lot more than that and cannot function the next day until he has some more. I am not saying he is an alcoholic. There are also those who do have a bit more than they should and it does affect them, more days off, more off days etc. The difference is SOG Clough worked in a different era when footballers drank a lot more than they do now and lot more often it was the norm. Now top footballers are expected to not drink at all when training or playing which leaves a Saturday nioght after the game and the day off the next day. Ferguson works for the biggest club in the orld and has a huge training/coaching team behind him, they also have the money to replace anybody who loses respect for him. REMEMBER BECKHAM??? Yes I am sure others do drink but probably in moderation and in private. The fact that you cite the like of LM and Bates failing to gain promotion with the players they had still does not compare to todays world. In Bates era there was a maximum wage so it was the stature of the club that counted and the likliness of playing first team football that swayed players team choices, in McMenemy's era Osgood cost us £275,000, there record transfer fee that season was £350,000 for Latchford to Everton, so just with some straight line numbers a similar player today (england CF 28 years old, not old in todays game) Emile Heskey, Owen, Crouch for example, what do you think they would cost? Do you think we could afford them?? The fact is if Burley failed it was not because he had a lack of money in this division, he had the remnants of a Premiership experienced squad, he had £7m to spend and a lot more the next season, and he bought a whole new team so it was his choice through and through. We scraped into the play-offs with a lot of results going our way in the final few games having been out of it with three games to go, we then failed to take steps to nullify a one dimensional Derby side until the return leg at Pride Park and then failed on penalties. To me that shrieks of failure to prepare properly for the biggest two games of the season. Then the follwing season, he lost Bale, Jones, Baird - we all know how good Baird was, he can barely get in a relegation side in the Premiership and one season as an above average player for us did not make him good. Bale was a good player no doubt, and not a real surprise that he went so why not plan for that rather than moan about it (Man Utd look like they may lose Ronaldo, they have already replaced him with Berbatov) that is football. Jones was the same, and lets face it he hardly set the world alight for us although no doubt another season and he might have. Yes we need stability, but to me Burley was a man without a plan, a plan to replace the better players that would always move on, a plan for the biggest games, a plan for building a squad and a plan for the future. Right now I am terrified by the gamble taken by Lowe with JP and co, but I actually feel everything is planned. We had to reduce the wage bill and have done so, we need to rasie money from player sales and have struggled to do so. But and the singular biggest thing, is that we have purchased players (whether it be Lowe or JP and that is a whole other debate) to a plan. We have bought cover in at CH in Wotton and Schneiderlin who can also play elsewhere, we have Lancashire and Racine from the kids to play alongside them and learn, we have the experience in Svensson and Perry. All of the players that have come in have played in the first team, ie we have bought to improve the squad, not increase it's size. We have invested in talented yougsters because we know we have to do some trading over the next 2-3 years to balance the books. JP has a style fo football he wants us to play, and barring the 9'6" mobile porter-cabin that Blackpool had up front he has got the tactics pretty much spot on for each game. Even the Blackpool game we should have won 4-3 if Lallana had missed the players on the line. So continually hark back to a past era which is like comparing cars from the 1920's and todays models, technology or in this case finances have moved on and it is a different scenario altogether. Burley did do well, but then again given more money than any other manager in the league was a play-off place target strong enough or should we have been striving for a bit more? You don't see Chelsea happy with Champions League spot when they have spent £500m do you? For me Burley underachieved, lost focus, lost the players and damn near got us relegated. Please do not tell me the position we were in when he left, look at the results and against who they were we failed to beat any team n the bottom three that season under Burley, is that the mark of a team heading upwards? The real question is how long do you stand by someone who is failing, despite all the support he has asked for being given?

I think the badge says everything about Southampton - depicting the sea, new forest and hampshire rose. If the badge were to change how about breaking the centre portion into quaters with each quater depicting the elements of the current badge and something commerative in the final quarter?

You sum it up for me with Burley, the rumours about his drinking were too frequesnt, and some first hand tales as well from a few restauranteurs around Southampton as well. For me the guy had lost the respect of the players and was merely going through the actions, he had by far the easiest part of the season and left us noweher in the league only looking like we were heading in one direction. Pearson tried to pick up a demotivated squad and again IMO failed and therefore I have no feeling positive or negative as to his departure. But be assured had Burley stayed I am sure the season would have panned out exactly the same.

I suspect he didn't give the answer you wanted or imparted the information your wanted - did you ask the right questions? I have re-read all the responses and find them consistent with the questions asked. I do not know who you are specifically so cannot comment uniquely. Some of the answers were light on real information but they did answer the question.

FFS here we go again, someone thinks that he might have avoided some questions and we now believe the guy is being dishonest. I think you will find that the echo clarified that there would be some questions he would be unable to answer due to market rules, the answers I read were pretty full and frank. I do not expect the guy to openly criticise, Crouch, Lowe McEnemy or anyone else involved in the past as that would be unprofessional. I just wish everyone would stop creating conspiracy theories.

Again you prove my point, why do you assume he is so spot on? Because his information supports his arguement? What I am saying is that we do not know the context of the information and we only have published comments from the press. Now they don't twist anything do they? Not sure where you got the 18 month information from, don't know if it is correct or not, I will give you the benefit of any doubt - I however made no comment about his contract and whether or not is was renewed, opted out of etc. Do you not think that the comments of Lowe do not imply a financial aspect to this? Who wanted total football, I suspect that JP wanted it but I do not know and am not going to enter in to a pointless arguement without any real facts, I'll say JP, you said it was Lowe and it was for political reasons. Again those are assumptions that through this forum are now being spouted as facts and something Steve alludes to in his posts. I did not mention the renewing of Pearson's contract and in any event might it have been because he didn't really get the results? Another debate maybe. It is again exactly posts like this which other pick up on, theory becomes speculation and speculation becomes fact. Your final paragraph is pure theory and speculation. Some of which I agree with, but I am not going to use it as a stick to criticise Lowe, Crouch, Pearson or anyone else, the club does not need that it needs bums on seats bringing money through the turnstiles. "Lowe got rid of Pearson because he wanted the Dutch Duo more, and he could bring them in without any financial hardship of paying more wages. That is all there is to it in my view." We really do not know why Pearson was not kept on, we do not know what conversations were had, there may have been a total differing of opinion on why and who we should keep some of the more experienced players and/or why or who we should promote the youngsters. Pearson may have even walked due to a clash of personalities, or Lowe may have not wanted him for the same reason. Like you, it is all speculation and opinion and not fact. These type of discussions, probably happening on other forums too, are ripping the fan base apart and is hurting the club financially. Regardless of who is in charge, and I would love an investor to come in, nobody can make big changes, big signings or take drastic forwards steps until we have money in the bank. Continual posturing from Steve and yourself, to take an example of both sides, will continue to stress the fault line between the fans. As very little is based on true hard facts it is all very destructive.

Your view may be right, but again statements are taken out of context and twisted to fit a side of the arguement - your approach is no better than Steve's. Commenting and discussing facts is fine but making them up as some do on here, taking them out of context or indeed dragging up something Lowe said 5 years ago to couteract anything said today is ridiculous. I am not sure how right now, but we need to get the missing 10k through the gates on a Saturday this will be the best way of getting our club back on an even keel.

I am sure you believe this Steve, but why do you have problems accepting Lowe's version of events? It is this sort of post where comments are used from one side to twist the facts or comments on the other side. We do not know what Pearson's demands were when he got into that office, we don't know whether he was willing to work with the youth at the club so why try and inflate the comment he made (and of course only Lowe roles out preprepared lines for the press) to belittle Lowe's comments. This sort of thing is the very essence of why we have such a divided fan base, clever wordsmiths like yourself manipulating comments and information. I am not saying you have to accept all that is said as fact but neither can you dismiss it all as fiction if it does not agree with what you want.

I do not deny that fan pressure may have had something to do with it, but it was more likely the continuing poor performances on the pitch, dropping our best players and an ineptitude for football management at the top level. Even our board would have spotted that. No doubt those who protested in fanzines and outside the ground after games would also claim some success aswell. Things were also very different back then - we had money, albeit minimal and were not in danger of going off the rails completely - although I believe the situation to be similar at the moment our overheads are far greater. Somewhere there are 13-15000 missing fans that is around £250-300k per game, that may keep one or two of the more experienced players at the club. I think the approach is wrong to achieve want they want, and that is new owners. Surely a full stadium cheering on our inexperienced team would be a more attractive proposition - the latter can be improved through player aquisition the former needs to be there in the first place.

I am so glad we have supporters like you willing to belittle the efforts after one bad result. As for Lowe, I agree as skipper of the ship he has to take overall responsibility. However, his first officer who was on the bridge steering and the crew who should have been more than capable of plugging the hole all chose to ignore the problem and keep sailing into deeper waters and IMO were as much to blame. With the yougsters now we are going to be hit and miss, unfortunately Lallana misses cost us the game against Blackpool, we created the chances and did not take them. A few had a bad day at the office granted but again kids are not going to be as consistent as the seasoned pros. I would however take a gallon of their passion and commitment against the teaspoon offered by the relegation side. Until a PROPER offer is on the table, we have Lowe and Wilde. So we have to make do. The people who are really hurting us now are the stay away fans who for either petty social reasons or because they are no more than Premiership hangers on, do not turn up. They are not hurting Lowe or Wilde they are hurting the club they purport to love so much. Perhaps they should go into the echo and explain their reasons and be crossed examined to show them up for the idiots they are.

It doesn't matter what they do they'll p1ss someone off and your comment highlights exactly why. If they come out and say anything that isn't rosy then they are negative, presiding over disaster or ruining our club. If they answer positively then they are spinning and being evasive. I really don't see the point of their communicating at all. What will meeting the supporters achieve, an opportunity for people like you to ask questions you know damn well they cannot answer fully and openly and to then turn around and accuse them of hiding the truth. We know what Lowe's view are: Reduce costs, promote the youngsters and repair the damage done to the financial stability caused by relegation and overly speculative player purchases. Wilde is there to give Lowe a mandate to carry through his objectives. I am just p1ssed off at the constant bickering from people making up 'facts', not you personally, but you have a knack of twisting them to fit you views, to beat Lowe, Wilde, JP, the team, etc over the head with. It is time we all reset our attitudes and move forward. The past has happened, nobody can undo it. All we can do is continue forward and try not repeat past mistakes. This is as important for the board as it is for the fans.

No, no, no!! Lallana is one of Rupert's blue eyed boys and part of the future plans, Lowe has only sold in the past, and I challenge anyone to refute this, players who have wanted to go. There may have been the odd backwater player for sure but mainstream first choice first teamers no. Even Bridge wanted us to break the wage structure to keep him here and ended up requesting a transfer. Perhaps Gasmi and Perhart have been brought in for McGoldrick and cover, JP said he wanted more cover in midfield and a striker. Sure getting Lallana on a 3 year deal means it will cost anyone more to buy him, but unless one of the major PL player comes along ie. Tottenham, Everton, and the likes I cannot see him wanting to go just yet. However, if we get offered stupid money £5-8m say, then we would be stupid to turn it down. We could buy 2 players with that and still have a lump left over to satisfy the bank. I am not sure the financial situation is as dire as some make out on here, we seem to have a deal with the banks, we must be meeting those obligations as we are being allowed to spend money. So why continually stir up bad feeling when for the first time for six years the club seems to be improving? Yes, I would like a big investor to buy the club but it aint gonna happen, yes I would like to see the back of Lowe, but until the former happens he may be the best person to run the club right now. Let's just enjoy the good times and try and pull the kids through the bad times they are at least playing with a bit of passion, something none of us have seen for 4 years or so.

Probably a better question to ask than the how long for JP one. Despite Mike's very negative (he may say realistic ) view, I really do think it depends on whether either of the two new boys can stick the ball in the net on a regular basis and/or Lallana finds his shooting boots. Lets face it he hit the player on the line twice against Blackpool and we should have had a penalty on one of those occassions as well. Success this year would be for top half, however I would hope we at least avoid relegation. Realistically I think we will finish top of the bottom third. Play-offs not out of sight I think this will be a very close league this year we have some big hitters in Brum, Reading, and Derby who all have financial clout, we also have the CCC perrenial challengers of Wolves, Cardiff, Charlton, Watford plus the additional probables in Sheff Utd, Bristol City, and no doubt a couple of others. And like last year if one team can string a few results together there may be a wild card in there like Hull. I think our kids are capable of going on a run - they appear to learn from their errors and will benefit from confidence gained - however at the end of each of these runs may be a huge crash when over confidence kicks in!!

I agree Rich. However, let him aim for the play-offs, if we miss by a bit then we are fine - if we aim for survival and miss then that's a problem. The difference between this team and that of the last four years is that we are creating chances and hopefully the new strikers will finish them. My feeling re McGoldrick have not changed he is just not quite good enough for the CCC. He needs one touch too many and does not make good choices at critical times. However he is only one to falter in that respect, White is young and deserves more time but did have a magnificent game at Derby and showed potential. John is too slow and fears that we may have seen the best of him last year are starting to prove right, we desparately need a goal getter, with the chances we create then a play-off place would not be out of the question without one we could end up like S****horpe last year - playing great football but ultimately winning few games.

Having spoken to the groundsman I can confirm the pitch was not narrowed last season or this.