Lord Duckhunter

Absolutely. Pretty much every single set of supporters would be the same as Middlesbrough’s have been. There still people who hate Derby because they kicked us and we got wet 20 years ago.

Brown would probably have won an election had he called one earlier. Jim Callaghan was also popular prior to The Winter of discontent & Maggie wasn’t as formidable, I guess having 2 General elections in ‘74 put him of calling one early ‘76 I think the Tories got too carried away with Major not calling one and winning the subsequent election. However, had he called one early, he’d probably have got a bigger majority than he ended up getting. There’s no doubt in my mind that if Burnham wins the leadership and then goes to the country for another mandate, he’ll win (maybe a reduced majority, but still a decent working one). Obviously he doesn’t need to, and I’m not saying he morally should do (I don’t believe he should). But tactically it makes absolute sense.

No chance Celtic don't win today, none whatsoever.

I think the complete opposite. If we’re not kicked out the EFL will want to announce it ASAP so fans can make plans and they knock the uncertainty in the head straight away. Middlesbrough may kick off and sue us, but the games not affected. The EFL may think the punishment too soft, but they’ll take it. It’s their biggest game of the season, they picked the time and date to maximise its appeal/importance, they want it on the day they choose, over any appeal against the leniency of our punishment. You can’t tell me these bods making the decision don’t work weekends. So it’s feasible a decision is being made today or tomorrow. If we’re kicked out, they’ll want all their ducks in a row before announcing. The last thing they want is another period of uncertainty. They’ll want to say, we’ve been chuck out, who is contesting the final, when and where, in one hit. And of course, there’s the logistics of any appeal which will lengthen the announcement timescales, but will lead to leaks. If we’re out, the leaks will start prior to any announcement imo…. Obviously, there’s different opinions, but mine is, the longer this goes on, the more likely we’re kicked out.

I’m with you on this one. The more I think about it, (and I’ve been doing way too much of that), the more I think this is the absolute key to it. If this was the FA Cup, I reckon we’d be chucked out, if it was a league game we’d face points deduction. It’s obviously a grey area which legal people would understand more than me. The other complication is it’s a two legged game, with the second leg having been played. The standard “result” is normally 3-0 against the transgressor, but they can’t do that having allowed the second leg to go ahead

They’ll have no proof whatsoever, are probably on holiday now, and know that in the grand scheme of things it wouldn’t affect their league position. The question is would they be kicking off had they been in this one off crucial game and the team instead of Middlesbrough we were spying on and then beat. I imagine the answer would be yes. For all this slagging off of Middlesbrough, this forum would be in meltdown had Portsmouth spied on us and then knocked us out of the playoffs, so I find this Middlesbrough pony a bit disingenuous from some of our supporters. People keep posting that we didn’t gain an advantage. True, but only because we got caught. I’m not a lawyer but “yes we tried to gain an advantage, but we’re so useless at it, we didn’t”, doesn’t strike me as carrying much weight as a defence. Neither is “it was legal an hour ago”, or “they should have made it harder for us to watch”. I’m just glad the likes of Soggy & MLG aren’t on our legal team. If it was a simple case of a lone wolf, it would be done by now. If it was a half arsed Billy Smart circus cock up, it would be done by now. I’ve no doubt if they find on the balance of probabilities it was an organised attempt to gain an unfair advantage, we will be chucked out. Maybe we could appeal that on the basis, this is part of the league season, and we wouldn’t be chucked out the league for it, but the longer it goes on, the more we’re in jeopardy imo.

Don’t talk pony man. We broke the fucking rules, we knew we were breaking the rules. It wasn’t some sort of timing issue. Thhi pathetic defence of our club is as ridiculous as the Boro over reaction. We are entirely 100% in the wrong, however much people try to dress it up. The only issue now is what is a proportional punishment.

Bielsa gave a long explanation and presentation as to what he hope to achieve from it, I don’t recall too many people saying “what a load of old pony, there’s no advantage to be gained”. Do people think the EFL put this rule in for no good reason (although some of our Nods probably think they did it as an anti saints conspiracy).

I don’t think it made much difference, but do we really believe this was the first time we’d done it. Twist it round the other way. Tonda caught Frank Lampard by surprise with his shape up there. Imagine if they’d managed to spy on us and knew what we were doing, so changed his line up and shape to counter us. Would people on here be making excuses or would some be jumping up and down. You only have to read the match day threads and the countless times opponents should have been sent off or penalties awarded to know the answer to that.

Why is it unlikely. Chances are they’ll have midweek game in this league, if they don’t Monday would be a light day I’d imagine. What with injuries & other factors I doubt the manager knows his starting 11 much before that. This figure wasn’t just plucked out of thin air. It was specifically set to stop sides spying to see line ups and set plays/shape.

Because that’s when most teams work on their shape & set pieces with the players who are starting the game.

Does anybody know the actual process of getting an independent body involved or the threshold etc. By that I mean, do the EFL look at the evidence and then decide there’s a case to answer and it’s so serious we need to be water tight. Do they just refer it to the independent body regardless of what they think or has our guilty plea, with mitigation mean the body are just dishing out the appropriate punishment. If we’d been accused of something else, tapping up for example, would that also go to this body, or would the EFL issue the sanction. I’m trying to work out whether the EFL getting this body involved automatically means there will be serious sporting sanctions. In short, why couldn’t the EFL decide the punishment, with an independent body hearing any appeal.

I just saw a great point about Hull. Both us & Middlesborough will have 10 days to prepare for playing Hull, whereas they might not know until Tuesday who they are playing. If watching training within 72 hours of a game, gives you an advantage, what does an extra week knowing your opponent must do similar….

It’s a mess. But it’s a mess of our making, not Middlesbrough, not their supporters, or their tame hacks & not the EFL. Sometimes there’s a ridiculous penalty awarded in the game, the phrase used is “he gave the referee a decision to make”, well we’ve given the authorities a decision to make, & rightly or wrongly, they could kick us out. Somebody at the club needs to pay for that with their job and I don’t mean the nipper with the iPhone. It’s a fucking shambles…. The general consensus on here is we’ll be ok, but I’m up and down. Sometimes I think it’ll be nothing, an hour later I’m thinking we’re fucked. The only thing I’m sure of, is the independent panel are independent. They’re also a body which relies on their integrity and reputation, they’re not going to be bothered about the logistics of playing the game without us, or Harry Styles gigging on the alternative date. Equally, they won’t want their decision being overturned by SR’s lawyers. The only consideration will be a verdict which is fair in most people’s eyes, proportionate and legally defendable. The truth is nobody really knows what they’ll be presented with or what our mitigation is. Trying to second guess why this has happened (tickets going on sale) or that happened, is pointless. It’s all up in the air and it wouldn’t be if we’d stuck to the rules…. Fucking shambles.

Daily mirror saying they’ll sit tomorrow