Hockey_saint

*back of the queue was the phrase.....it incensed gammons like you....probably didn't help it came from a "gentleman of colour" either. There's optimism and there's blind optimism....Not a big fan of attaching my optimism to people like Michael Gove or Donald Trump probably akin to Johnson's ex-wife hoping he wouldn't run off with some hanger-on half his age and leave his kids behind....what a classy bunch.

Sad, very sad. Let's wait and see what leaving brings shall we? November will be interesting if Farage's great mate Trump loses.

So you agree that was a major aspect as to why we left. Just wondered as you seemed a bit quiet when Saint Clark was at pains to point out it wasn't about mass EU migration.

Those who shout about the size or lack of (I didn't start this personal little insult before you chime in again) intellect tend to not have much about them in the first place. You don't know me and you don't know my level of education besides which, he didn't answer the points I raised and just started mud slinging; as I say, very childish.

Don't worry, he's not particularly bright.

Your point? *assent. How childish.

Far brighter than you. Clearly.

They just used that to play on people's fears of loads of darker-skinned foreigners entering our shores....classic dog whistle politics. I was at a rally in 2008 and a lot of old people came up to Prescott.....this is in Shirley....and virtually with one voice said "wot you gonna do about these foreigners??!!" They clearly meant EU migrants but as per usual, the government used it and if anyone thinks Brexit wasn't almost entirely about that and not some fantasy about being as free as a daisy in the big wide world, they're either very stupid, indoctrinated or just delusional.

I think you need to understand how governments actually govern....you know, through majority in any parliament. The house of lords can kick a bill about but not usually stop it and royal ascent is usually just a rubber stamp. Our sovereign signed away rights to put down governments centuries again and they do indeed do the bidding of the majority of parliament....who are, more often than not, the government of the day and their usually politically-motivated laws which, as I say, lend themselves to people questioning their impartiality.

Clueless yet you've just repeated my point. They do the bidding of the government of the day therefor not politically neutral and open to be seen as party henchmen by some...they don't enforce rights and wrongs but rather enforce political doctrine or at least that's what some protesters will say with some point.

How am I dismissing their views? You're just making up new ones to suit your agenda. Brexit aint no fairytale where we gain heavenly freedom. It's about moving backwards to a time when we were a bigger fish that's it. As for you Ducky, when May or Johnson can cut their numbers.....like they have, it's not independent; when they make up laws that are politically motivated and the police have to follow them, they're not independent they are doing the bidding of the politicians which puts them right in the crosshairs.

Those were lines made up afterwards to justify said actions. Nothing more. None of this erupted like it did until about 2007 at the inclusion of the A8 countries. Such a view was seen as exclusively right-wing tory and something they'd been fighting about for decades. You can change as many words and make up new reasons but that's the crux of it people are afraid they'll lose their jobs to the number of EU migrants coming in and voted en mass against it anything else like "freedom" is well....freedom for what? to control our own borders? to stop said migrants coming in...that's it, that's all it's ever been about.

An independent body with it's own ring-fenced budget.

Who pays their wages? Who decides their numbers and who are they ultimately answerable to? Who makes the laws they enforce?.....After what you've just wrote, I'd probably keep quiet about calling anyone else a clown.

Nutty as a bag of badgers...or perhaps on a wind up.

You can carry on thinking that's the only reason and that's fine but it's not true. It had an awful lot to do with the admission of the A8 countries and the number who interpreted such a move as a licence to move about the EU and work where they liked...just like we did in Germany in the early 80's...we just didn't come in the hundreds of thousands....that made lots of older people very uncomfortable.....lots of people looking different and speaking another language and so they voted to stop it...anything else about "freedom" is utterly tied to the number we've let in so actually, it is related because it's about perception...it's also been used by certain elements in society for their own advantage...much like you suggest BLM has. But either way, historically, when black people "get a bit uppity" or look like they're threatening to change the statues quo, a bunch of right wing people ALWAYS shout "Communism!!!!!" it's standard, it's old and it's a bit sad that they feel they need to shout these people down who frankly only want to be treated the same as anyone else. As far as defunding the police go as well, that's the wrong way to take it....de-politisizing the police would be a better idea, making them have their own independent rules that make them a-political and not just doing as a bunch of politicians say would probably be a better idea.

That's either wishful thinking or a little bit ignorant of the people behind it.

It's probably more about the means in which they take control of production. I see fascism as direct and certain interpretations of Marxism as indirect but with the same result.

When you get that far along the sides tend to blur into one. Hitler sent communists to death camps so he was no socialist but Oswald Moseley was, at one time, close to being Labour leader and did come up with some very interesting nationalisation of industry ideas....then became the head of the British fascists when it was fashionable to do so...lots of their views, the far left and far right do often merge; you're right about that.

He'd never do that though; too busy cultivating an image as an "average bloke down the pub with a fag in his hand".

might be a good idea as it's football-specific.

Yeah in which case that will depend on your definition of far left then as well....as I say, same same.

Nigel Farage has attended quite a few far right rallies and was in Tulsa earlier....same same.

To most of the people that follow BLM it's about equality and gaining acknowledgement; you know most just see an organisation campaigning for their rights and go with it....maybe something like vote leave....that has very extremist right wing agenda's but most people that followed that didn't think much about those points and wrote them off as "negativity". Point is, you can't write off a movement like that simply as a bunch of left wing marxists because as I pointed out, that's always what happens.

Perhaps you should do some research because it seems odd that when a minority does something to attempt to gain some equality, there's always a right winger to shout "marxism!!!". You are against the organisation because you've found a snippet that justifies your dislike of it.