Hockey_saint

Fair point.

So the national intimidation of quiet, silent tories skewing the polls comment wasn't daft at all then. You can call my comments whatever you like, perhaps they are too emotive to be rational but I say what I see all the time. There are many worse than me.

'Tis why I've tried to make it clear that labour started the ball rolling on a couple of these things. But what didn't need to happen is great expansion of them and some bright spark to think these were viable areas to cut in the name of austerity. It also winds us disabled people up because you cant even dare mention this in front of David Cameron as he really does go red, get quite mad, play the insulted father of a sadly bereaved son and shout you down saying he has the best interests of disabled people at heart as his son died....he's done it on tv a few times but it really doesn't add up when you read above or consider even Boris Johnson complaining about it.

It really depends on the operative's interpretation of their condition (as opposed to a qualified doctor) how they tick the boxes and what the current DWP targets are. I'll say it again, this was started by labour but has been greatly expanded to the point where an employed disabled person (who would still need help) is treated no differently as an unemployed disabled person claim incapacity allowance. You see it on the tv all the time, disability benefits are often grouped as all the same thing and usually associated with unemployement when actually, most targetted disability benefits are not dependent on if you are out of work or not; you just happen to need financial help more so than some others. But unemployed or not, they all face similar tests which is very wrong. A new facet of this "universal credit" system according to current government thinking is that if you are employed, but have a low rate of pay and need help with things like housing benefit will now require you to work at least 28 hours a week or face being treated as unemployed and will have to attend job centre meetings weekly or lose the housing benefit. My problem with this is that a lot of disabled people cannot work that many hours so it's gonna cause chaos not to mention the IT system to run it is years behind and running at billions. Then there's the seriously, seriously, quadraplegic, for example disabled people about to lose their support they get in the form of thr indepenent living fund. A (admitedly pompey-supporting) friend will soon lose this, he works but soon may have to stop because he'll not be able to get about. So as I've been accused of being vague, I hope that clears the waters as to why I am so disappointed this country saw fit to give the people responsible for this a hearty pat on the back.

You also have to remember "call me Dave" continually moaned in opposition about all the forms he had to fill in for his son Ivor; there is a nugget of truth there for sure. But the way it used to work is that these forms had to be supported with evidence from a BMA registered doctor (your GP usually) but it changed for out of work benefits like incapacity allowance (now ESA) under labour sadly, where this private French firm was brought in with it's readymade tick box system of thresholds to be looked at by an employee of theirs (usually a totally unqualified...for assesing things such as aspergers syndrome...nurse) and the report which may or may not meet the threshold (which has been rising under the tories) and then, judging on that you are either sent to the jobcentre, put in a "support group" or left alone (happens to about 5%). Now this may even be acceptable for out of work benefits but the ones claimed by Dave (because his son needed help) now face exactly the same test (because the unemploement % for those claiming it is quite high.....it's high those able-bodied too) add to this it's being scrapped, a new benefit called "personal independence plan" is replacing it (with the same tests) but they've made the mobility element almost impossible to claim (for example, epileptics who may need help planning routes and assistance can no longer claim because they can walk 100ms. Oh and they, as mentioned in a link before want to remove 20% of claiments from it....no specific conditions mentioned but 20% none the less. This is how it works....still, it's gotta be done hasnt it? Austerity.

Really? Is that the official excuse for this? When fat cats (otherwise known as mates of George and Dave) are currently lording it on huge pay packets from formerly nationalised industries?

That's not true. Legal aid has been about since before labour got into power in 97. Disability Living Allowance was created by the conservatives. The cuts go much further than simply restoring what was there before. The Independent Living Fund was created by the tories for social inclusion of those severly disabled which is being removed. They spent billions of an IT system called universal jobsmatch which has been an utter failure. If it was just about redressing the balance I would agree with you.

I did wonder if I'd stumbled onto the muppet show when I saw the "right being intimidated by the left" line. By the way, if you see things like dying people being refused state help or people being forced to use foodbanks because of savage cuts, you may take the generalised view that people who vote for those who commit this stuff to law are not particularly nice or endering people....but hey, this board shows us, shucks, they have feelings too.

I agree with creating wealth in the public sector....for the country as a whole, being run by the country and for it's people. Not big business into the pockets of execs and shareholders. I think public services should be run like a business with maximum efficiency for the highest profit FOR US. Someone said to me the other day, if you trust a party, you must understand who they funds them and who they are answerable to. Labour, it's the unions (it's how they were created) and for the conservatives it's financiers and big banking corporations so it's always seemed strange to me that anyone in their right mind would think they would punish them but I digress but it's money in the end that's always the issue on both sides.

But WHY would they? They appear to be in the majority...is it shame? It's certainly not the threat of violence (although since the new government want to scrap their membership to the court of human rights that may be an issue soon.) Why because they'd be seen to agree to horendous welfare cuts? Legal aid cuts? mass privatisation? Yeah, I suppose that could make you a little bit nervy to admit.

Since most of the media is controlled by Rupert Murdoch I would suggest that if anyone's been intimidating anyone it's the right. But I do love your "there's a force at work preventing the British people from expressing their inner tory" though

Really? So the right are the victims are they? Campaigns of intimidation....brilliant.

Yes, sure but you always think beside that how your vote will effect people. It just seems to me today that it's the Gordon Gekko culture that has arisen. I know when I read stories of people's lives being ruined by things such as the bedroom tax or the social clear out and gentrification that London is currently undergoing, it makes me think long and hard about who I want to vote for. I certainly don't see this and think "ah, well, I'll be better off tax-wise if I vote for the guy causing this".

For a self-confessed left-wing voter, that sounds very Thatcherite. But perhaps that's the problem, it's now just the norm.

This pretty much sums it up for me: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2015/may/08/democracy-a-religion-that-has-failed-the-poor?CMP=fb_gu

My "excessive hyperbole" right, so, like George Osborne before the election I cannot give you exact examples, I'm wrong? Also, as far as the jobsworths go. Remember such assistance isn't judged by a doctor any more (the DWP, working for the government don't trust those). It is a paid member of a French sub-contracted healthcare group filling out a tickbox form on a computer so the person doing the ticking is probably not to blame. This system was created under the instructions of this government. The only plus point for me is that my relatives up in the Wirral gave the minister currently responsible for this, Esther McVey, has been kicked out on her ear. As I say, I'm a member of such disability groups who campaign for this to be judged more fairly, so call me a loony lefty but I just don't wish to see more treatment like this dished out to those worse off in society (generalisation or not). So after watching this happen in the name of austerity cuts for five years now and seeing the general public resoundingly give it the thumbs up makes me just a little bit mad (It made John Major mad too...I assume you've seen all his latest speeches?).

You can say that...... http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/government-benefit-cuts-are-already-being--blamed-for-the-deaths-of-three-vulnerable-people-and-there-may-be-60-more-9942735.html Hypo, I would not, not refuse to vote Tory if they came up with more than smears, propaganda.

Agreed. But you should also understand that like these so-called "frothing at the mouth lefties" you are coming off as a gloating right-winger who's cheering a very narrow majority which will clearly spell a lot of pain and suffering for a great many people.

I don't wish to persuade anyone....As said, you vote with whatever morals you have...if you have any. Oh why oh why could anyone hate Thatcher....it's a mystery to me.

Who told you that? As far as sickness benefit goes, the first week you can do yourself and then until they send you a form to fill out, you have to continually get doctor's notes for about 9 weeks. You fill the form out and then 99% of the time you have to see an operative from ATOS who's job is to remove specific targets of the sick onto JSA or whatever else they get. That is very much incorrect. Also sounds like the type of propaganda most of the population have clearly bought into.

I was thinking that; the line made no sense to me. It's pretty clear that most bankers have been trousering our money without asking for quite some time.

Have you seen the disabled people tying themselves to the railings outside parliament? Yes, very melodramatic.

either way, it wasn't a huge amount higher than UKIP's voter numbers.

When you are making cuts and your immediate choice is to cut it from those that need it the most as opposed to your rich tax-avoiding mates then yes, you qualify as pretty bleedin nasty. So do the people who allow this to happen. That's why I think people should be ashamed of themselves right now.

Totally agree. But what confuses me is why they got such a slaughtering for apparently trying to temper Tory excess whilst the public gave the tories essentially a pat on the back.