egg

That's a sad state of affairs - essentially allowing Trump another term in this climate for personal ambition in 2028.

I don't buy that. The USA has a population of 340m people. Amongst that lot there'll be a democrat more able than Biden.

Land

Old and past being president yes, senile no. Absolutely incredible that he's put up for a second term. He had a chance to put the boot into Trump last night but was just too decrepit to do so . The bit where his sentence tailed off and Trump said that he didn't know what he'd said and that Biden didn't know either, summed it up. He was an embarrassment, and having him in the running is pretty much giving Trump a free pass.

Looks like he's giving one for the team!

We need to deal with the reality, not the vague prospect of our independent judicial structure crumbling at some point in the future. Anyways, I promised to shut up so I will!

Then there is a detriment to them leaving, but no detriment when they're upgraded.

Who would stand at left back and cover RB if Bree and Manning went? As average as they are, we need them until we get others who are better.

No. It's an absurd allegation. The SC is independent of the government.

I've addressed the first point. As to the balance, we'll agree to differ. I am quite satisfied that we do not need international judges overseeing our judges decision making. We have tribunals, appellate tribunals, the high court for judicial review, then onto the court of appeal, then the supreme court if necessary. Those courts and their judges are independent of each other and any duff decisions will get proper scrutiny and a fair outcome irrespective of politics or outside interference. I'm not persuaded that necessarily applies in the ECHR, particularly post Brexit. I'll leave it there as this is a general election thread, and one thing we all seem to agree on, is this ain't happening anyway!

The issue is whether we leave. I've yet to hear how, in reality, British people will suffer any prejudice if we leave. Our laws are regulated by our judicial system. I'm not persuaded that we need what is essentially an international appeal court against decisions of our supreme court.

Odd. You'd imagine that Russia has builders and engineers who could do the job.

Knowing he'll do that basically gives his team a 2 goal start. Or something.

I doubt we have, it'll be a low base plus unachievable add ons to make it to 5 mil.

Fair point re the wider reach of the ECHR (court and convention) but it doesn't alter that we don't need to be part of that to have a) fair and just human rights and b) a fit for purpose judicial system to hold the state to account. I'm not calling to leave by the way, but I don't understand the flapping about the impact of doing so.

Why do we need a court above the Supreme Court? Our judges are independently and non politically appointed. They have shown countless times how they're willing to act against the government and it's various departments. We have decent human rights values and laws, a decent judicial system, and won't lose any of that if we exit the convention and court. Moreover, the notion that a court belonging to a club that we have left should exercise jurisdiction over us makes no sense in my opinion.

On the 2 highlighted parts: 1. Politics. It's the little Britain mantra of independence, but also see below. 2. No. And I don't think we will if we come out. The principles of it are enshrined in our values, and much is enshrined in uk law and would be regardless of whether we remain part of the ECHR. I'm not sure where this belief comes from that we need to be subject to an EU legal jurisdiction having exited the EU to continue to have decent human rights. We don't.

You've made Hypo's point for him. Canada plainly aren't a member, but live by decent principles. We can and will if we ever ditched the ECHR. The suggestion that we'll cease to live by decent and fair rules if we come out is sensationalist nonsense.

That doesn't address the question. Sure, it's bollox, but if it happened, nothing would change in reality.

I'm not sure what people think will change if we ditch the ECHR. We ain't going to start tolerating slavery, domestic violence etc. We'll still live by the principles of it. Academic anyway as Rishi is toast.

Horn

Yeah, saw that, and I hadn't appreciated that he was out of contract. That's a very good signing for Ipswich.

Yep, sad as it'll be to see him go, if we can use West Ham's interest to our advantage, that's as good as we can do.

There's got to be a deal to be done there. I'd take Downes and Ben Johnson as a swap.

Bizarre links. I'd be surprised to see either of those happen.