squiggly_dan

Wouldn't be a player rumour thread without a highlights video

I contacted the club last year about the matchday experience, as it is one of the few elements of the club which we as fans are able to influence. This included the return of the Albion Band (who confirmed they would be happy to play several games a season), creation of a singing section in the southern end of the ground with 'relaxed' stewarding, and ideas to improve the provision of food and drink, among other things. I suggested the formation of a fan's committee to canvass opinions and recruit volunteers for various activities, but the club were not interested. With the fiasco over the Markus Liebherr flag and strange situations with ticketing, I can only come to the conclusion that the club at best do not trust the fans, and at worst deride us. It makes perfect short-term sense to have 32,000 JCL fans every week buying merchandise, and I feel they are abusing the loyalty of some of us. For me, games at St Mary's are either sterile or puerile, and I am happy to be a football snob about this, because I think we can do much better. Until somebody steps up and forces the changes to make this a proper place to watch football, I will be only attending away games.

If you are still on the fence I can meet you at Taunton? Otherwise I will be heading back to Plymouth, so will probably end up in Walkabout myself!

Any of you Plymothians have any recommendations? It's been a bit hit and miss getting to see Saints on TV since I've been down here - Walkabout will have it on, but the sound will likely be one of the Prem games!

As I cannot comprehend anything other than 3 points on Sunday, I will risk this one: Oh Pompey scum, oh Pompey scum, How do you feel now Saints have won? You thought you'd buy an FA Cup, Now look where you have ended up, Oh Pompey scum, oh Pompey scum, How do you feel now Saints have won?

No income tax, No VAT, Can rob a bank, And buy Pompey, Agent bungs, You'll get a cut, Can even buy an FA Cup! Pompey owners' club, Liars, cheats and thugs, Buy your guns and drugs, From Sacha, Chanrai or Antonov Sacha, Chanrai or Antonov.... Antonov....

Fratton's falling, all around me, Saints are playing, having fun, It's the season, when Skates get relegation, Merry Christmas, Pompey scum.

Ohhh Steve De Ridder, he's from Belgium, he's different class, mayo on his chips but when he runs he's funking fast, running down the wing he'll put your left back on his arse, Ohhh Steve de Ridder....

I was just watching the Reading highlights and thought how impressive the goal celebrations looked - it is quite rare home and away to get a camera angle showing a whole stand with fists pumping! The typical shot at St Marys looks over polite applause in the Kingsland! Celebrations at away games are always more energetic than at home, but I will miss the lower league stands and terraces which make all the difference. Take Exeter last season - 75 minutes of dross on and off the pitch, followed by 15 minutes of mayhem, especially after the winning goal went in. The bundle that ensued carried me 20 feet along the terrace - when I finally got back to the group there were still people picking themselves up off the floor! Those late turnarounds make all the away day effort worthwhile - unfortunately the recent expectations at home games seems to take the edge off slightly. What about watching games on TV? Whether at home or in the pub, I can't help but to jump and shout at any Saints goal - I was in Walkabout Plymouth for the Reading game as the Liverpool fans looked on bemused at the crazy bloke pogoing around the bar!

I think you are all missing the point here - when the club allows the flag to be used, what happens then? It is surely up to us as fans to coordinate moving the flag from storage (from memory it weighs around 33kg), setting up prior to the game, ensuring a successful display, and packing away again? I would expect it would take around 10 people walking the flag across the stands to ensure it remains straight - I remember reading about a Sunderland flag 15x10m which they struggled to control in the wind, and which became twisted as the top half moved faster than the bottom. Also, check the first 10 seconds of the Saints Player Reading highlights - they struggle with 6 people holding a flag half the size! So who wants to volunteer? Once we have sufficient numbers, we can take a clear proposal to the club, showing we are serious about ensuring safety while displaying the flag. People would need to be available a number of hours before the game to perform a dry run, and coordinate with Police/Stewards as necessary. They would also need to be prepared to miss the start of the game so the flag can be packed away and returned to a safe place in the stands. It appears to me that although the club have been particularly crap at communicating information to Mike, they are basically saying that they are too busy to complete the paperwork necessary to have the flag displayed at every game, but they would be prepared to do it for the occasional outing. If we can arrange a display that is well received and motivates fans and players, maybe they might be prepared to do it more often! My suggestion would be to try and organise this for Peterborough, as I am assuming it will be the "All Saint's Day" for this year, seeing that it is on All Saint's Day itself! I know some will have reservations as the day is designed to remember all Saints lost in the past year, but I'm sure that fans unable to make the Memorial game would be grateful for the opportunity to pay their respects.

I estimated that the width of one block would be 15m, hence the suggestion of 15x10m - Minty has the stadium plans, so hopefully he will be able to confirm the dimensions! I know that you are advertising it as a surfer flag, but I would think it would be very difficult to pass around the stands without getting out of shape - I was thinking that we would have a team of 6 or 8 running up the stairs either side of a block to unveil the flag, to ensure it is displayed properly. A big consideration should be wind, as it would be very easy for a gust to lift a sheet that large into the air! Mike, I was already in discussions with the club (Marketing director) earlier this season about improving the matchday experience and atmosphere - would you be happy to have a face-to-face meeting with the club to discuss both matters? I made some suggestions and was told they could not be implemented mid-season, but they would be happy to meet with 'influential' fans during the close season. As Nicola has kindly offered to meet any shortfall but many fans would like to keep it funded by us alone, perhaps we could target the cost of the flag to by met by donations, then ask Nicola to pay for any additional materials to decorate an entire stand?: The UI article is right, and so are we! Mike has said all along that this is a memorial fund, with the flag being the initial plan - if there is enough interest, the fund raising need not stop once we reach the target. Everybody wants something permanent at the stadium to remember Markus by, but the final decision on that will always be Nicola's, and I wouldn't want the fans to push something on him. I will keep hoping for a memorial garden with a simple plaque – I think that would be the most suitable tribute to the man and his character. On the matter of donations, it would be great to organise a bucket collection, but this would have to be organised through the club as we don't have a licence – too late now unfortunately. Hopefully we can capitalise on the football vacuum over the summer by getting support from players and media to spread the word. That said, the more cash we can get the better, as currently from each £10 donation, 50p is currently going to the PayPal/eBay empire! Mike, perhaps a FAQ could be an addition to the site (and edit to the original post)? You're the boss with everybody's blessing on this, so please just use this as my opinion on the issues! What is the aim of the memorial fund? To initially raise funds for a flag to be displayed at St Mary's, then work towards other tributes to Markus, whether they be a one-off, temporary, or permanent. How much will the flag cost? We are currently in negotiations with several companies to supply the flag, but are targeting an initial figure of £6000. Who will own the flag/where will it be stored/when will it be displayed? We will be in discussions with the club in the coming weeks to ensure all legal and safety issues are considered, but we would hope that the flag will be stored at the stadium and released to be used on designated 'flag days' to mark special anniversaries and important occasions. Display at away days may be considered. What will it look like? All contributors will be invited to submit and vote on a final design shortly. How much will it weigh? The fabric will be around 150g per square metre, so a 20x15m flag will be approx 45kg – manageable by 1 or 2 people. If Nicola Cortese has agreed to fund any shortfall, why should I contribute? We are aiming to have the flag as a tribute from the fans, and will continue to raise funds until the target is met. Nicola's backing ensures the flag can be ordered and paid for on time. What sort of scale of flag are we talking about? This Sunderland flag is 15x9M – we are targeting 20x15M!

Couldn't have said it any better myself - nail on head! I want my club to be known for it's passionate, intimidating, intelligent and respectful football fans - I want travelling players and supporters to come to St Mary's a nervous wreck knowing they cannot possibly compete with the wall of noise, not laughing at the bunch of mongaloids they see at the moment. To those who disagree - carry on with whatever it is you enjoy doing at matches - I intend to gather a group of like-minded fans to drown you out and give you an education on what being a football fan is really about!

What a class bloke - good work Mike! The cover email for the Live Event Branding quote said: "thank you for your enquiry, your quotation is attached showing a few sizes (though we can make any size)." If we are now aiming for "the largest flag possible" backed by Cortese, it surely has to be a display to cover an entire stand!

It's a real shame that the club took so long to reply and weren't able to make it happen for Walsall - that would have been fantastic! I suppose we should be grateful that they are supportive of the idea and are open to potentially funding some of it! Hopefully Saints will finish the job in Jannerville so the fans can properly devote the final game to the big man (although sadly I cannot be there). Not sure how good the donations are going, but even the power of social networking might not be enough to reach the target before people switch off from football for the summer - would it not be worthwhile organising a bucket collection for the final game (again with the club's help to avoid the problems with charity collection licences etc)? Mike, in your first post you mention the current quote is £2700 - did you receive this, or are you quoting me from the previous thread? If so, it might be prudent to quote the full cost including VAT of £3317.40 - I can forward the quote to you which also includes a 12x8m replica shirt (Liebherr, 62 anyone?) @ £2340 and 20x15m flag @ £6285. Hopefully with the newly acquired industry insider we should be able to slash these costs anyway!

Get up to Mutley Plain and into The Fortescue or Hyde Park - the only two proper pubs in the area (Fortescue particularly good for ales!). Turn right out of the train station and follow the line for about 10 minutes until you get to Mutley Baptist Church. The Fortescue is half way up and Hyde Park is right at the top where the road forks - just follow the left fork and cut left down one of the side roads to Central Park and the ground. This route may look a little longer on the map, but believe me, it cuts out the steepest part of the climb into the park! Once the game is over (and you no longer care what your beer tastes like!) there is a good bar crawl to be done back down Mutley, North Hill, and into town - Mannamead, Cafe Sol, Dog & Duck, Mutley Crown, Boomerangs, The Junction, Mousetrap, Cuba/Air, Skiving Scholar, Fresher & Professor, Ride, The Roundabout, Voodoo & on - if you are still standing after that lot I will buy you a drink! See you there!

Get up to Mutley Plain and into The Fortescue or Hyde Park - the only two proper pubs in the area (Fortescue particularly good for ales!). Turn right out of the train station and follow the line for about 10 minutes until you get to Mutley Baptist Church. The Fortescue is half way up and Hyde Park is right at the top where the road forks - just follow the left fork and cut left down one of the side roads to Central Park and the ground. This route may look a little longer on the map, but believe me, it cuts out the steepest part of the climb into the park! Once the game is over (and you no longer care what your beer tastes like!) there is a good bar crawl to be done back down Mutley, North Hill, and into town - Mannamead, Cafe Sol, Dog & Duck, Mutley Crown, Boomerangs, The Junction, Mousetrap, Cuba/Air, Skiving Scholar, Fresher & Professor, Ride, The Roundabout, Voodoo & on - if you are still standing after that lot I will buy you a drink! See you there!

Yes, you have already said that - I thought you were giving up the Hoddle 'jokes'? Anyway, if Duncan Holley wrote 'In that other number: a Saints history as described on the interweb' I would buy it whatever the cost!

I think it is important to look at the companies giving the quotes and how capable they are of creating giant flags - the bigger the flag, the bigger the technical challenge. More money does not necessarily result in a larger/better quality flag - some companies will give a big quote and simply outsource to somebody else!

If you are being paid, who do we speak to about you getting the sack?

True, did we ever get to see the Save our Saints/Saints Aid accounts - I have always been suspicious about that one! In this case I am suggesting we lobby the club to provide initial funds to buy the flag, with the promise that we will continue fundraising until it is repaid. While that happens, we could investigate the possibility of a permanent memorial to Markus, and in time perhaps the club/Nicola would be prepared to match funds raised to ensure it happens. That way we can tell people how we are progressing towards the target, and what their money will be used for.

Right, several issues to resolve here: Money I estimated the width of one St Mary's block to be 15m, so asked for a quote based on 15x10m flag. Live Event Branding have quoted £2,764.50 ex VAT for a re-inforced flag with grab handles (I imagine quite important on a very large flag). 20x15m will be approx £5.5k. Although I am sure we will be able to obtain cheaper quotes, an amount of this size will be very difficult to raise in the short amount of time we have available, so I would like to suggest that we approach the club about starting a 'Markus Liebherr memorial fund' into which the club could loan the cost of the flag to allow us to get moving, then we could fundraise, with any surplus going towards a fans memorial to be decided at a later date (I would like a memorial garden built and maintained by fans, like the one at Eastlands). Having an account controlled by the club would resolve all of the issues with money security, and the fees involved with PayPal transfers! Design I don't think we need to rush into picking a design, to agree that it should have stripes, 'Forever a Saint' as text and that image of Markus is enough at this stage. I am not particularly happy with no 1 design, mainly due to the issue raised above - when blown-up to full scale it will look terrible! That is the reason I have applied the 'Che Guevara' effect to the other designs - you will notice that most other flags with images use a similar effect, and I don't think it is a coincidence! I will try and come up with something, but I think that type of image will always work best on a one-colour background. Live Event Branding quote 14 days for delivery, so we have a few more days to refine a design and get advice from other fans groups before ordering. Organisation We need people to pledge their time to get involved with fundraising at the ground, and probably during the summer as well (unless we are very lucky with donations). I want this display to look impressive and be a fitting tribute to Markus, rather than just a sad looking flag bought on the cheap because we did not make enough effort. How does everybody feel about my earlier idea of creating a massive display to cover the entire Chapel stand? This need not be expensive as we could use coloured card, scarves, or even crepe paper streamers - £1 for an 80ft roll on eBay! If so, we would need at least 20 volunteers to take in materials and co-ordinate their block. Perhaps the club could be asked to transfer tickets to make this easier for those who want to be involved but have already bought tickets? Please reply if you are interested in this! Legacy If the club go for a memorial fund, it would be best to have a fans committee that can gather the opinions of fans and co-ordinate fundraising efforts. If we can decide on a fundraising target (first to meet the costs of this display and then a garden, bench, wall of shirts in the concourse etc) we would have all summer to plan and present to fans at the beginning of next season. Lets face it, we need something to talk about to ensure this place does not become the Deppo 'comedy' show in the summer!

I'm glad people like the flag design, but it was intended as a quick idea to encourage others with actual talent to have a go! I think it may be a mistake to involve the club, as they may be obliged to say no. Not that we are an ultra group (yet!), but usually displays are done against the wishes of the club and materials are sneaked in (although if we are challenging the Penarol effort it may be difficult to sneak in between 300 people - would get caught in the turnstile!). Not sure if JustMike has already done so, but I have emailed Live Event Branding for some guideline prices. I think we should aim to create a display that can cover the entire Chapel stand: The people above and below the flag could be holding coloured squares or waving/holding scarves - the fabric stripes would be quick and easy to buy and would not be particularly complicated to display. That way we can use everything but the flag throughout the season, and create the entire display for important anniversaries only - it would otherwise lose it's impact if used all year. It would also open up the possibility of creating other flags if it proves popular with fans. We could organise collections before the Bristol & Hartlepool games, but we will need people to donate their time as well as money for this to work. Here are more ideas - somebody please give me some competition, else I might win by default!