Over land and sea

But they still find time to write four articles saying the same thing when there is a big news story. It doesn't need to be a priority - just keeping basic info up to date and putting a short factual piece on the site (or even its Twitter page) notifying arrivals and departures and contract extensions. I accept that many people don't use the OS and those that do don't rely on it as much as they once did. But it ought to be a reliable source for those that do. if you are a journo, for example, researching info about the club's squad/players for a pre-season summary, do you go to Wiki or the the OS for that info? Ironically, if you are a journo that knows their stuff, in the case of Saints, it's Wiki - but that can't be right. Plus Kornelius Hansen (who left in advance of the retained list being finalised), Jacob Maddox, Marcus Barnes, Alex Cull, Harlem Hale, Simon Kozak, Christian Norton and at least 4 of the U18s. It surely wouldn't be that difficult to reinstate last season's loaned out players either.

There was no retained list published on the OS last season either so I think you are being a little generous attributing this to COVID. A list was published on the PL website so we heard about it, but nowhere on the OS did we announce which players had been released or who was being retained. Eventually, in early July 2019, there were some details announced about contract extension for players who would otherwise have been out of contract but that was it - the club never acknowledged the departure of the out of contract players who were not offered new contracts. It wasn't until autumn 2019 that the U23 and U18 OS profiles were updated to reflect summer departures and arrivals. The same thing has happened this season (except we still haven't been given details of contract extensions for those being retained) so I think a policy of restricting information about the development squad players must now be regarded as the norm.

Yes, I'm struggling to see an actual difference given there are no eligibility changes as far as I'm aware

Latham is missing from the OS profiles because he was on loan last season. And Cull has been released. I assume Bycroft will be the 3rd B team keeper I wouldn't pay any attention to the OS profiles, particularly for the U23s and U18s - there are other sites with much more accurate information. More generally the OS's coverage of the U18s and U23s is patchy. We released several players at the end of their contract in June but the OS did not even acknowledge that we had done so and most are still listed in the profiles (the only ones that aren't are those that weren't listed anyway because they were out on loan). Several players have been offered new contracts but again no news on the OS. The profiles need a lot of updates. The released players (Barnes, Cull, Norton, Kozak and others) and end of loan players (Maddox, Danso) need to be removed; Salisu, most of last season's loaned out players and the new season scholars need to be added. Last year's second year scholars need to be moved up to the U23s. The way the site deals with loaned players is random - sometimes they continue to list the loaned out player in the squad (e.g. Klarer, Johnson) but mostly not - there is no logic. Last year it was well into the autumn before the squad was updated for the new season so I don't hold out much hope this year when everything is starting so much later.

I agree - 29 players with 2 already out on loan, 1 of which is a season loan. So with loans and even a couple of sales, we should comfortably be below the 25 player limit, as were in January. It's actually 5 keepers in the 27: McCarthy, Gunn, Lewis, Forster and Latham, so probably 2 of them will move before the season starts. For the folowing season (21-22) Salisu, Valery, N'Lundulu, Tella and O'Connor will no longer qualify as U21. But by then Latham, Jones, Bertrand, McQueen, O'Connor, Romeu, Reed, Johnson, Hesketh, Sims, Boufal and Carillo will all be out of contract (as things stand) - I can see that several of them are unlikely to be extended.

What do I know! On the bench tonight.

He may even make the bench. With all those players ruled out, I make it we've only 23 fit players includung Olufunwa. 3 of those are keepers so, with a match day squad of 20, at least 2 of Jankewitz, Ferry, N'Lundulu and Olunfunwa will make the bench.

I assume so as he was only ever brought in to play with the U23s and their season is over (as we know, Ferry, Jankewitz and Tella from the U23s are training with the first team but I'm not aware of any others). I doubt we'll get confirmation until the OS profiles are updated - I seem to recall that wasn't until September last year, at least for U23s/U18s. He is on Chelsea's retained list for what it's worth.

Perhaps because apart from Tommy, you and perhaps your daughter, no one knew about that! Even if we assumed all those that were offered a contact signed them, we still don't know the length of the deal.

It does seem strange that seveal days after the released and retained lists were published by the PL, the OS still haven't mentioned anything. Nothing to acknowledge that any players are leaving, nothing on those that have been offered new contracts and nothing to update the OS profiles. In fact Harry Lewis must have signed a contract earlier this year because he is retained without the offer of a new contract - and that was never mentioned either. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised!

Released and retained lists published on PL website. The only oddity is Harry Lewis who was out of contract but listed as retained with no indication of a contract offer - must have missed that extension or was not announced. Hopefully once OS eventually announces the departures etc. this will be clarified. I have updated the opening post. Retained list Released list RELEASED Alves Soares, Cedric Ricardo Barnes, Marcus Thomas Cull, Alexander Hale, Harlem Kozak, Simon Norton, Christian Anthony O'Driscoll, Aaron Rose, Jack Joseph Yoshida, Maya Scholars Cluett, Ryan Glean, Rio Kamil Idowu, Roland Saunders, Michael Watts, Callum Neil RETAINED Contracts Adams, Che Sac Everton Fred Armstrong, Stuart Bednarek, Jan Bellis, Samuel Lawrence Alexander Bertrand, Ryan Boufal, Sofiane Brennan, Sean Anthony Bycroft, Jack Thomas Carrillo, Guido Marcelo Chauke, Kgaogelo Djenepo, Moussa El Younossi, Mohamed Ferry, William Forster, Fraser Gerard Gunn, Angus Fraser James Hesketh, Jake Alexander Hoedt, Wesley Hojbjerg, Pierre Emile Kordt Ings, Daniel William John Jankewitz, Alexandre Tounde Dimitri Johnson, Tyreke Martin Jones, Alfie Charles Keogh, Seamas Klarer, Christoph Kpohomouh, Pascal Latham, Kingsley Finn Ledwidge, Kameron Malcolm Lemina, Mario Rene Junior Lewis, Harry Charles John Long, Shane Patrick McCarthy, Alex Simon McQueen, Samuel James Mitchell, Ramello Dejorn Nlundulu, Dan O'Connor, Thomas James Obafemi, Michael Oluwadurotimi Olaigbe, Kazeem Aderemi J. Olufunwa, Oludare Samuel Araba (Offer) Ramsay, Kayne Redmond, Nathan Daniel Jerome Reed, Harrison James Robise, Enzo Scott, Tommy John (Offer) Sims, Joshua Samuel Slattery, Callum Smales Braithwaite, Benjamin Smallbone, William Anthony Patrick Stephens, Jack Tchaptchet, Wandja Allan Tella, Nathan (Offer) Valery, Yan Vestergaard, Jannik Vidal, Oriol Romeu Vokins Jake Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward Watts, Caleb Cassius Scholars Agbontohoma, David Osaretim (Offer) Bailey, Samuel James Burnett, Ethan Darren (Extended scholarship) Davey, Teddy Jay Defise, Lucas Nsiona K (Offer) Hall, Matthew Gary Morris, James William (Offer) Otseh-Taiwo, Zuriel Jonathan Rus, Marco Smith, Jayden Pharell Llamar Mills Tizzard, William James Turner, Jack Henry Wright, Oliver Lennon George

There are 5 in the current U21 list that would have to be named in the 25 man squad to play in the PL next season, including 2 who are loaned in and who therefore will be out of contract. Tyreke Johnson Kingsley Latham Moussa Djénépo Kevin Danso Jacob Maddox Yes, I'd give Long a new contract above anyone else on the list of out of contract players but I know that's not a view that is universally shared on this forum! The list of out of contract players is unusually lengthy for this stage of the season. In particular there are a lot of 2nd year scholars who have not yet been offered a pro deal. In fact, many of the 1st year scholars appear to have moved ahead of them both in contract terms and in game time for the U23s. Given we have nearly 20 players out on loan that suggests the squad as a whole is too big so the summer provides an opportunity to address that at the U21/U18 level, and to a lesser extent at first team level.

Updated 25 man squad lists published on PL website. https://www.premierleague.com/news/1603207 It's a 21 man squad, 15 of whom are home grown. It includes 2 players who are out on loan (Rose and Jones). In September, we named 5 players who were out on loan in the squad but not Jones or Rose! So it does seem a bit random which of the loan players are included (on this occasion it does boost the home grown numbers but that wasn't a factor in September). El Younossi, Carrillo, Hoedt, Reed, Cédric, Yoshida, Forster, Hesketh, Lemina and Sims who are out on loan are all omitted from the latest list. The U21 list also incudes any U21 who is out on loan, as there is no limit to the number you can list. Southampton 25 Squad players (*Home grown) - 21 players Adams, Che Sac Everton Fred* Armstrong, Stuart Barnes, Marcus Thomas* Bednarek, Jan Bertrand, Ryan* Boufal, Sofiane Gunn, Angus Fraser James* Hojbjerg, Pierre Emile Kordt Ings, Daniel William John* Jones, Alfie Charles* Lewis, Harry Charles John* Long, Shane Patrick* McCarthy, Alex Simon* McQueen, Samuel James* Redmond, Nathan Daniel Jerome* Rose, Jack Joseph* Stephens, Jack* Vestergaard, Jannik Vidal, Oriol Romeu Walker-Peters, Kyle* Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward* U21 players (Contracts and Scholars) - 56 players Agbontohoma, David Osaretim Bailey, Samuel James Bellis, Samuel Lawrence Alexander Brennan, Sean Anthony Burnett, Ethan Darren Bycroft, Jack Thomas Chauke, Kgaogelo Cluett, Ryan Cull, Alexander Danso, Kevin Davey, Teddy Jay Defise, Lucas Nsiona K Djenepo, Moussa Ferry, William Glean, Rio Kamil Hale, Harlem Hall, Matthew Gary Hansen, Kornelius Normann Idowu, Roland Jankewitz, Alexandre Tounde Dimitri Johnson, Tyreke Martin Keogh, Seamas Klarer, Christoph Kozak, Simon Kpohomouh, Pascal Latham, Kingsley Finn Ledwidge, Kameron Malcolm Maddox, Jacob Mitchell, Ramello Dejorn Morris, James William Nlundulu, Dan Norton, Christian Anthony O'Connor, Thomas James O'Driscoll, Aaron Obafemi, Michael Oluwadurotimi Olaigbe, Kazeem Aderemi J. Olufunwa, Oludare Samuel Araba Otseh-Taiwo, Zuriel Jonathan Ramsay, Kayne Robise, Enzo Rus, Marco Saunders, Michael Scott, Tommy John Slattery, Callum Smales Braithwaite, Benjamin Smallbone, William Anthony Patrick Smith, Jayden Pharell Llamar Mills Tchaptchet, Wandja Allan Tella, Nathan Tizzard, William James Turner, Jack Henry Valery, Yan Vokins, Jake Watts, Caleb Cassius Watts, Callum Neil Wright, Oliver Lennon George

I've updated the opening post with all the deadline day changes. A few things that may be of interest: - the revised 25-man squads will be announced this week - probably tomorrow. We have only 19 players over 21 that we will need to list, if we opt not to list anyone who is out on loan. - we currently have 19 players out on loan - surely a club record. 12 of those are over 21, 7 are U21 (1 of whom is a scholar) - Johnson and Latham's new contracts are intersting in that both will no longer qualify as under 21s next season (similarly Moussa Djenepo, and also Kevin Danso and Jacob Maddox if they are both retained) - next September, we face another struggle to get the squad down to 25 players or below that qualify as over 21s. Including all currently loaned in and loaned out players there are 36 such players - that said 9 of these will be out of contract in the summer - in additon to these 9 players there are currently 18 U21s out of contract this summer - presumably this figure will come down a bit before the end of the season but it's unusually high

Perhaps it's to do with the terms of the loan - whether there is any possibility of a recall. There are 11 over 21s out on loan so 5 had to be omitted to get the number down to 25 - we decided to omit 6 to give us a 24 man squad. Since Sims and Barnes are on half season loans that made more likely candidates to include (though we get the chance to update the list in January so still doesn't seem strictly necessary). But what the thinking was for choosing to include Lemina, Forster and Hesketh and omit Reed, Hoedt, Elyounoussi, Carillo, Jones and Reed, is not clear. I don't think it can be how close to the deadline the loans were agreed because Hoedt's was one of the last to be agreed.

25 man squad announced on PL website. It's a 24 man squad but includes 5 players on loan, 3 of whom are on season loans. El Younossi, Carrillo, Hoedt, Jones, Reed and Rose who are also on loan are all omitted. The U21 list also incudes any U21 who is on loan. https://www.premierleague.com/news/1335777 Southampton 25 Squad players (*Home grown) Adams, Che Sac Everton Fred* Alves Soares, Cedric Ricardo Armstrong, Stuart Barnes, Marcus Thomas* Bednarek, Jan Bertrand, Ryan* Boufal, Sofiane Forster, Fraser Gerard* Gunn, Angus Fraser James* Hesketh, Jake Alexander* Hojbjerg, Pierre Emile Kordt Ings, Daniel William John* Lemina, Mario Rene Junior Lewis, Harry Charles John* Long, Shane Patrick* McCarthy, Alex Simon* McQueen, Samuel James* Redmond, Nathan Daniel Jerome* Sims, Joshua Samuel* Stephens, Jack* Vestergaard, Jannik Vidal, Oriol Romeu Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward* Yoshida, Maya U21 players (Contracts and Scholars) Agbontohoma, David Osaretim Bailey, Samuel James Bellis, Samuel Lawrence Alexander Brennan, Sean Anthony Burnett, Ethan Darren Bycroft, Jack Thomas Chauke, Kgaogelo Cluett, Ryan Cull, Alexander Danso, Kevin Davey, Teddy Jay Defise, Lucas Nsiona K Djenepo, Moussa Ferry, William Freeman, Kieran Glean, Rio Kamil Hale, Harlem Hall, Matthew Gary Hamblin, Harry Mark Hansen, Kornelius Normann Idowu, Roland Jankewitz, Alexandre Tounde Dimitri Johnson, Tyreke Martin Keogh, Seamas Klarer, Christoph Kozak, Simon Kpohomouh, Pascal Latham, Kingsley Finn Ledwidge, Kameron Malcolm Mitchell, Ramello Dejorn Morris, James William Nlundulu, Dan Norton, Christian Anthony O'Connor, Thomas James O'Driscoll, Aaron Obafemi, Michael Oluwadurotimi Olaigbe, Kazeem Aderemi J. Olufunwa, Oludare Samuel Araba Otseh-Taiwo, Zuriel Jonathan Ramsay, Kayne Robise, Enzo Rus, Marco Saunders, Michael Scott, Tommy John Slattery, Callum Smales Braithwaite, Benjamin Smallbone, William Anthony Patrick Smith, Jayden Pharell Llamar Mills Tchaptchet, Wandja Allan Tella, Nathan Tizzard, William James Turner, Jack Henry Valery, Yan Vokins, Jake Watts, Caleb Cassius Watts, Callum Neil Wright, Oliver Lennon George Separately the squad numbers have been published including for all the U23s and many of the U21 - see separate thread on squad numbers and https://www.premierleague.com/news/1336193

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1336193 A much fuller set of squad numbers including all the U23s and many of the U18s has been published on the PL website. Many of the players out on loan also included even if on a season loan (see bolded numbers). Southampton 1 McCarthy, Alex Simon 2 Alves Soares (Cedric), Cedric Ricardo 3 Yoshida, Maya 4 Vestergaard, Jannik 5 Stephens, Jack 6 Hoedt, Wesley 7 Long, Shane Patrick 8 9 Ings, Daniel William John 10 Adams, Che Sac Everton Fred 11 El Younossi (Elyounoussi), Mohamed 12 Djenepo, Moussa 13 14 Vidal (Romeu), Oriol Romeu 15 16 Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward 17 Armstrong, Stuart 18 Lemina, Mario Rene Junior 19 Boufal, Sofiane 20 Obafemi, Michael Oluwadurotimi 21 Bertrand, Ryan 22 Redmond, Nathan Daniel Jerome 23 Hojbjerg, Pierre Emile Kordt 24 25 Carrillo, Guido Marcelo 26 27 Smallbone, William Anthony Patrick 28 Gunn, Angus Fraser James 29 Vokins, Jake 30 Slattery, Callum 31 Ramsay, Kayne 32 33 34 35 Bednarek, Jan 36 37 38 Danso, Kevin 39 Sims, Joshua Samuel 40 Nlundulu, Dan 41 Lewis, Harry Charles John 42 Hesketh, Jake Alexander 43 Valery, Yan 44 Forster, Fraser Gerard 45 McQueen, Samuel James 46 Barnes, Marcus Thomas 47 Ferry, William 48 Hansen, Kornelius Normann 49 O'Connor, Thomas James 50 O'Driscoll, Aaron 51 Johnson, Tyreke Martin 52 Tella, Nathan 53 Hale, Harlem 54 Klarer, Christoph 55 Cull, Alexander 56 Bycroft, Jack Thomas 57 Scott, Tommy John 58 Olufunwa, Oludare Samuel Araba 59 Freeman, Kieran 60 Ledwidge, Kameron Malcolm 61 Kozak, Simon 62 Tchaptchet, Wandja Allan 63 Brennan, Sean Anthony 64 Jankewitz, Alexandre Tounde Dimitri 65 Watts, Caleb Cassius 66 Robise, Enzo 67 Norton, Christian Anthony 68 Turner, Jack Henry 69 Agbontohoma, David Osaretim 70 Wright, Oliver Lennon George 71 Kpohomouh, Pascal 72 Chauke, Kgaogelo 73 Mitchell, Ramello Dejorn 74 Defise, Lucas Nsiona K 75 Rus, Marco 76 Keogh, Séamas 77 Morris, James William 78 Bellis, Samuel Lawrence Alexander 79 Olaigbe, Kazeem Aderemi J. 69 players On loan players without squad numbers Hamblin, Harry Mark Jones, Alfie Latham, Kingsley Finn Reed, Harrison James Rose, Jack Joseph

Apparently the 25 man squads can be altered up until 2 September, when they are published. So they won't be published this weekend. Clubs have until then to fill up vacant slots with free agents. There must be a good chance that we'll be down to 25 players by 2 September. By the way, is it just me or is the only way to access the article about our squad numbers through the club's Twitter feed (unless you already have the link set out in the opening post)? I was trying to find the story on the OS but it's not there unless you already have the link.

I see that the first team profiles have been updated with the new numbers, albeit Smallbone, Vokins, Danso and Hesketh are missing. And the U23s/U18s are still showing last season's photos (and last season's players in some cases!). Perhaps they're waiting for the new shirts to arrive before they update.

Yes, Marcus Barnes (number 65 last year) is the only omission from the over 21s (other than the players out on season loans). If Saints follow previous seasons' practice, there will be a longer list submitted to the PL to cover Checkatrade Trophy games (are they still the sponsors?) so Barnes may be in that. Or perhaps he's got a loan lined up, which would solve the 25 man squad dilemma as we currently have 26 players aged over 21 (not including Sims who may return in January). That longer list will be published on the PL website, probably this weekend - along with the 25 man squads.

Well Armstrong and Elyounoussi were part of the 29 June announcement but yes things could obviously change and the earlier the OS announces the numbers the more that are likely to change. But the same could happen this year. The PL will presumably announce numbers on say Friday or Saturday of this week and over the days or weeks after that we could loan players out or even sell them. What the PL site will give us is the full set of numbers for Checkatrade Trophy purposes. The OS never announce those.

True although the OS had already announced the first team numbers on 29 June. That hasn’t happened this year yet.

I would imagine on Friday after the transfer window has closed. Only three PL clubs have announced their numbers so far so it looks like clubs are waiting to see exactly who they have before finalising numbers. One of the main drivers for announcing them early is that fans get on and buy shirts based on the new season’s numbers. That driver doesn’t exist for Saints this year!

Lewis is over 21 but Djenepo has one more season as an U21