Over land and sea

Our 25 man squad for the first half of the season has to be finalised by 4pm tomorrow. Since we don't have 25 players over 21 (or at the least what qualifies as 21) it ought to be quite straightforward. I wonder whether Dickson and Forte (who is only on loan until November) might be named to make up the numbers. If so we would have 23 players: Kelvin Davis xx Ryan Dickson 3 Maya Yoshida 5 Jos Hooiveld 6 Jose Fonte 13 Daniel Fox 22 Frazer Richardson 25 Danny Seaborne 32 Danny Butterfield 10 Gaston Ramirez 4 Morgan Schneiderlin 8 Steve Davis 18 Jack Cork 20 Adam Lallana 21 Guilherme Do Prado 27 Richard Chaplow 42 Jason Puncheon 7 Rickie Lambert 9 Jay Rodriguez 19 Tadanari Lee 24 Emmanuel Mayuka 33 Steve De Ridder xx Jonathan Forte Under 21s 12 Paulo Gazzaniga xx Cody Cropper 2 Nathaniel Clyne 26 Jack Stephens 23 Luke Shaw 16 James Ward-Prowse 28 Calum Chambers 29 Ben Reeves 34 Corby Moore 35 Sam Hoskins 36 Jake Sinclair

"An Under 21 player is defined as one who is under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences." So Clyne will not need to be named in the 25 man squad for the comimg season, but will, of course, in 2013-14.

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/Pro-GraduateList/ A ninth new scholar has been added: James White, a goalkeeper.

Yes, I'll keep the list updated over the summer. AIn the meantime we are not short of views on here about who should be sold or sent out on loan! And well spotted Saint Garrett - I've corrected the list re Ryan Dickson.

In terms of how the 25 man squad might shape up, before any addiitons or other leavers, the retained list currently leaves us with 24 players over 21: Kelvin Davis Tommy Forecast Frazer Richardson Danny Butterfield Danny Fox Dan Harding Ryan Dickson Jose Fonte Jos Hooiveld Aaron Martin Dan Seaborne Jason Puncheon Steve de Ridder Morgan Schneiderlin Jack Cork Dean Hammond Richard Chaplow Adam Lallana Rickie Lambert Billy Sharp Guly do Prado Tadanari Lee Lee Barnard Jonathan Forte Plus the following who qualify as under 21s - mixture of 1st team squad, development squad and academy. There will be eight 1st year scholars next year according to Jason Dodd - 2 are on this list (Gallagher and McCarthy), six more still to be announced Chris Johns William Britt Jack Stephens Matt Young Fraser Colmer Luke Shaw Bevis Muagbi Jordan Turnbull Calum Chambers Lloyd Isgrove James Ward-Prowse Andy Robinson Corby Moore Joe Curtis Dominic Gape Gregory Ariyibi Harrison Reed Jason McCarthy Ben Reeves Omar Rowe Sam McQueen Sam Hoskins Alberto Seidi Jake Sinclair Jamal Branker Sam Gallagher

I believe of the current squad Tadanari Lee, Radhi Jaidi, Jose Fonte, Jos Hoovield, Steve De Ridder and Guly Do Prado and possibly Bartosz Bialkowski and Morgan Schneiderlin wouldn't count as Homegrown. Anyone know for sure about Bart and MS?

I understand that the rule is that Premier League clubs have to name eight home-grown players in their 25-man squads. Home grown players are not exactly what they seem to be – so here is the definition from the English Premier League: A home-grown player will be defined as one who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with a club affiliated to the Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the Season during which he turns 21). Clubs will also be able to supplement their 25 man squads with unlimited additional players under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences, and changes to the squad list of 25 may be made during the period of a transfer window. I don't think we'll have a problem meeting the home grown criterion. From our current squad (see post 50) all the scholars and current under 21s can be additional to the 25 man squad. I think Ben Reeves, Ryan Doble and Harlee Dean will also qualify as under 21s. That leaves 28 players (i.e. the 25 players with a squad number between 1 and 26 plus Forecast, Puncheon and de Ridder) competing for 25 places. That's before the retained list is produced and before we've bought anyone, of course.

The most immediate decisions will need to be taken on the players out of contract as we will have to prepare the annual retained list. To answer Stattmeister, the players shown in bold in the following list are, to the best of my knowledge, out of contract. I'm less sure about the development squad/scholars as it's always more difficult to get information about them First team squad 1 Kelvin Davis 2014 2 Frazer Richardson 2013 3 Dan Harding 2012 4 Morgan Schneiderlin 2014 6 Jose Fonte 2015 7 Rickie Lambert 2014 8 Jack Cork 2015 9 Lee Barnard 2014 10 Guilherme Do Prado 2013 11 Billy Sharp 2015 12 Danny Butterfield 2013 13 Danny Fox 2015 14 Dean Hammond 2014 15 Radhi Jaidi 2012 16 Aaron Martin 2014 17 Jonathan Forte 2014 18 Richard Chaplow 2013 19 Tadanari Lee 2014 20 Adam Lallana 2015 21 Bartosz Bialkowski 2012 22 David Connolly 2012 23 Ryan Dickson 2013 24 Lee Holmes 2012 25 Dan Seaborne 2013 26 Jos Hooiveld 2015 27 Yago Falque 2012 [on loan] 28 Ben Reeves 2013 29 Ryan Doble 2012 31 Tommy Forecast 2013 33 Steve de Ridder 2014 39 Harlee Dean 2012 42 Jason Puncheon 2013 Under 21s 36 Jack Dovey 2012 32 Jack Stephens 2014 Aarran Racine 2012 Andy Robinson 2012 Lloyd Isgrove 2012 40 Sam Hoskins 2012 Alberto Seidi 2012 Scholars 2nd year 2011-12 Steven Mowthorpe 2012 Conor O'Sullivan 2012 Daniel Bowman 2012 Matt Young 2012 35 Corby Moore 2012 Joe Curtis 2012 1st year 2011-12 Chris Johns* 2013 William Britt 2013 Fraser Colmer 2013 34 Luke Shaw* 2013 Jordan Turnbull* 2013 30 James Ward-Prowse* 2013 Calum Chambers* 2013 Harrison Reed* 2013 Omar Rowe 2013 Gregory Ariyibi 2013 Bevis Muagbi 2013 Sam McQueen 2013 Jamal Branker 2013 Jake Sinclair* 2013 Dominic Gape 2013 * on professional contract

Hear, hear - thank you St Markus. Just wish you'd lived to see your dream

It remains about what we do and that has to be our focus. If we worry about Reading and West Ham we won't have the focus we're going to need to win the last three games, which is what I think we'll now need to go up automatically. It's a big ask but we can still do it if we stop looking over our shoulder. As for winning the league or coming second, we need to see where three wins leaves us - it's no longer in our hands. And from our current position and from where we started, coming second to a reasonaly recent Premierhsip side who clearly have a great defence would not be a bad outcome. We've no right to first place simply because we've been there for most of the season. If we get promoted, we need to improve massively to compete in the Premiership though (our current defence will be overrrun by any decent side with any pace) - but we only need to address that if we get there.

Any excuse to save energy! And in response to original post, bad idea. If we had 3 subs then perhaps but not with 5.

Yes, I accept entirely it was a small minority and should have made that clearer. And I applaud the majority that got behind Bart.

It's a shame that it took a performance like this to demonstrate to those that rated Bart higher or equal to KD that he isn't. I think he's always been behind KD and have never really understood the debate. But Bart is a much better keep than today's game showed and I think it's a shame (a) that the team didn't think to give him early touches in recognition of his lack of games and inexperience of big match football and (b) that after he'd made the early howler (which fortunately didn't cost us) that the crowd didn't get behind him (easy for me to say from the comfort of my living room, I concede). He's never done anything other than be a loyal and dedicated pro and I think he's earned supporters' backing - I think he has pressed KD and made the latter a better keeper. I think Bart can come back from this (even if it's not for us), albeit he'll probably need to go out on loan to play regularly to rebuild his confidence. I hope he comes back stronger. If what I've read on this forum is right and that some of our fans were chanting for him to return to Poland I hope he succeeds to stick two fingers up to them. Shameful behaviour - we're Saints fans and should be backing our players, not bolstering the opposition's chances by undermining our players in the middle of a match.

According to that well known fountain of all knowledge, Wikipedia, five of the Under 21s have been given high squad numbers (between 35 and 40). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_F.C._Academy Of course, anyone can edit Wiki but it does seem an odd thing to make up. I've not seen this confirmed anywhere else - anyone know if this is accurate or made up? The players are: 35 Harlee Dean 36 Andy Robinson 37 Alberto Seidi 38 Lloyd Isgrove 39 Sam Hoskins 40 Aarran Racine The other two U21s, Jack Dovey and Jack Saville, do not have numbers shown. Jack Saville is the only of our players to be missing from all squad lists on the OS. He's no longer shown in the first team squad, U21s or (for obvious reasons) the U18s. Come on OS - sort it out!

No - the majority know what they're talking about according to the latest vote

There's still a lot more to come I think but he's clearly head and shoulders the best since Strachan - many of the others should never have been allowed in the building. I think there's one ex-manager missing from the OP - Mark Wotte. Not that this affects the conclusion in any way!

Yes - both Dean and Saville involved with the U21 game tonight. #saintsfc squad: Dovey, Stephens, Reeves, Robinson, Dean, Racine, Hoskins, Moore, Doble, Punch, Isgrove, Chambers, Mowthorpe, W-Prowse, Rowe, Sinclair, Reed, Young, Saville.

Harlee Dean 31 to 0 Jack Saville 37 to 0

The profiles on the OS for the academy players were all updated last week and Lloyd Foot, Jordace Holder-Spooner, Ben Martin, Lee Nicholas were all removed. There were 3 players added (Johns, Seidi and Rowe). I don't think the club made any official announcment - presumbly they don't need to announce as part of the retained list as they were not on pro terms.

I believe there are many more than 4 who are out of contract next year: Kelvin Davis Dan Harding Rickie Lambert Lee Barnard Danny Butterfield Dean Hammond Radhi Jaidi Aaron Martin Joseph Mills Lee Holmes David Connolly Bartosz Bialkowski Ryan Doble Under 21s Harlee Dean Jack Saville Lloyd Isgrove Sam Hoskins Aarran Racine Andy Robinson

Jack Saville, Alberto Seidi, Chris Johns, Omar Rowe all now added to the OS.

I've updated post 7 with the contract extensions and details of who's been released. The First Team, Under 21 and Academy player lists on the OS have all been updated and Ben Martin, Lloyd Foot, Lee Nicholas and Jordace Holder-Spooner have all been removed. On another thread someone mentioned that they thought Jack Dovey had been released but he's still listed on the OS. There are 2 or 3 additions that need to be made to the OS's Academy page to reflect those that signed pro contracts for next season (Alberto Seidi, Chris Johns, Omar Rowe). Does anyone know if Jack Saville is still with the club? He was listed in the first team squad (number 37) for much of the season but was removed some weeks or months ago. He's not in the U21 squad list either. Also is Andy Crosby still registered with us as a player as well as a coach?

Illness bug has deccimated Stoke squad and the FA have asked Saints to step in and play Manchester City in the FA Cup Final later today, as long as they agree to start with Anthony Pulis in central midfield

Interesting that many of the U21 squad (some with contracts up) did not feature in this afternoon's friendly whereas many younger players did. I'm thinking of Callum McNish, Jack Saville, Ryan Tafazolli, Aarran Racine, Sam Argent and Tony Garrod.

Thanks - good point. I'll edit.