austsaint

Handy post; where have you been? I think the issue you raise with Downes has been compounded by the Smallbone and to a lesser extent, Airibo factor. With Les Ugo and Fernandes as starters, much pressure comes off FD.

Yes, the selected team, the structure and the tactics, especially in the first half was frustrating and doomed Saints to a third defeat. Playing 3 CBs once again put the spotlight on our midfield - Downes was good but it was embarrassing to see Smallbone so far out of his depth. Airibo had a fair game, but he can't be paired with WS, especially while 3 CBs are being used. Someone suggested taking THB and Smallbone out of the firing line for a while and then reintegrating them. In the case of THB it's a good idea - he seems a bit shellshocked by the rise in quality and the pressure our defence is under with the Martin manifesto of playing out from the back, but there's every hope he will bounce back and prove himself a very good Prem CB. I can't see the case for Smallbone doing that. He just doesn't have the attributes or athleticism to be a Prem midfielder and it's been painful to watch him being ruthlessly exposed. Martin's "loyalty" to players like WS, AA, JS and even Bednarek and Airibo has to be rethought, quickly. To Martin's credit he made the right changes which sparked the side until the madness at the back took hold again. Reverting to a back 4 also improved the side. I'm sure if he had his time again he would not pick the same starting line up. Lots of good things today among the gloom. Dibling the most obvious; what a prospect and must be played for increasing minutes; Fernandes looks a gem and he immediately transformed the attacking midfield. Sugawara continues to impress and even though 3 goals were conceded, Ramsdale put his stamp of class on the game unmistakably, and Lallana showed that played sparingly he still has the creativity and nous to provide attacking threat.

It's not a bad move for him though. I have a lot of respect for JWP; he's a player who has overachieved in the Prem through his well honed dead ball skills which have always been well in advance of the rest of his skill set. He deserves credit too for many years of service to Saints, for which he was well rewarded. One thing you can say about Ralph's tenure as Manager - he helped JWP to lift his game and develop a technique which included pressing, tackling and intercepting. He is effectively now a journeyman - but that's not a put down, just a confirmation that he is an average, steady PL midfielder who has found his level.

Might all be stardust in 12 hours or so, but let's hope.

You are probably right. It looked like the 30 minutes v Cardiff was shop window rather than the first steps to redemption. My preference would be that RM wipes the slate clean and gets the best out of a clearly talented young CB. A successful redemption of ABK on RM's cv would look pretty good.

I'm not a great fan of bringing JWP back - there's a greater need for an attacking player or two. I also believe that Downes is a better outfield player than JWP these days, dead ball delivery aside. But I would have JWP back in a flash as an upgrade on Will Smallbone. I see the next few games as a real test of RM's judgement. If he had something to do with the recruitment of Fernandes and the loan of Les Ugo then I applaud him; but if he doesn't start them almost immediately (and up the game time of Dibling) in preference to WS and Airibo then there are grounds to question his grasp of the best starting X1.

The sooner that midfield is employed, the better off we will be. Is there any chance of ABK staying and starting? If he could recapture the form and attitude of his first 10 Prem appearances he strengthens the side.

Nearly 10 years to the day since Boruc left. That's a long time between drinks not to have a decent keeper. Great signing! Let's hope the quest for a clinical striker doesn't stretch out much longer.

Don't think you can criticise RM for not starting Dibling, yet. Judged on his cameo yesterday though his time is coming rapidly - he is a young player Saints need to hang on to at all costs.

Let's be brutally honest - Will Smallbone is not a Premier League standard midfielder, yet RM is playing him as though he's one of the first on the team sheet. The difference in quality between the Saints and Forest front four was a chasm. We had BBD and Arma playing forward and wide, looking and hoping for service from a non-existent attacking midfield. Smallbone in particular can't/doesn't run with the ball; can't beat a man, or play the half turn and doesn't have the guile and creativity the side desperately needs - Airibo doesn't offer much more. It was left to Downes to be both the defensive midfielder and the box-to-box role as well. The late cameos from Fernandes and Dibling offer hope for better - Dibling providing the Stu Armstrong run we are lacking. Martin has to start employing what we hope are the midfield qualities that Big Les, Fernandes and Dibling can bring. It's time to confine Smallbone to back up status. The point made by Trousers is a crucial one - why would KWP want to stay? Conversely, we can't afford to lose him. Today, he and Downes were the only recognisable Prem standard Saints players.

Perhaps we could have been more successful (last season) had we not relied on it so much.

One of the things that made Saints unpredictable and threatening in the first half was the wing backs; KWP in particular, spending time in the midfield and finding space through the channels for Aribo, Arma and BBD to exploit. When Edozie came on, we played a slower build up game with predictable service wide - not helped by Newcastle dropping deeper and happy to concede the predictable Saints majority possession. Despite this, Edozie looked dangerous at times, but as you say Trousers, his efforts often seem to fizzle out. I rate him though as an improver.

Airibo was stunningly good; only KWP edged him for Saint's best on the day. Airibo seems so much fitter and invested now - his touch, hold up play and guile are at home with Prem standards.

It was mystifying to see Sugawara replaced at half time. That substitution and the sending off completely changed the game and took a lot of wind from our sails. Both Sugawara and KWP were brilliant in their wing back roles. Sugawara got forward well, his crosses were threatening and he showed good defensive qualities. KWP had a spectacular game - running the show in the first half as he moved into midfield space and combined well with Airibo, Downes and Diaz. If there is any chance of keeping KWP at the Club, it must happen - he is of more value to SFC this season on the pitch and leaving on a free next season if he doesn't sign a new deal, than the fee he could attract in the next fortnight. Airibo was very good today. I assume he was spent on 70 minutes, hence the substitution. He was more effective today than Smallbone who played the full 98 minutes. Smallbone wasn't bad but he's still essentially a recycling, safe passing mid, not the attacking midfielder we need. I'm hoping when Lesley is up to speed, it's Smallbone he replaces and not Airibo, but I suspect RM will go the other way. If there were any doubts about Downes measuring up to Prem standard they were dispelled today. He has got the lot - pace, tenacity, tackles well, drives forward with the ball and plays the box-to-box role. Has to be the Club's best bit of business for some time. Future Captain material. There's not much you can say about McCarthy that hasn't been said. Should never have been given the new contract, and we have seen too many errors and clangers from him over a long period of time to think it would be any different today and into the future. Has to be replaced. There was a lot to like about today and it was very unfortunate to come away from SJP without a point, at least.

Yep; I'd like to see Smallbone do well, and he has earned a second chance at Prem level - but he could well be "a bit crap at this level". I say that because good control and passing range with some technical skill may not be enough. An attacking midfielder in the Prem needs to be capable of driving runs with the ball; have the half-turn in their locker and have a creative, expansive eye for a pass......not sure Will does.

The thread about the most excited you've been about a signing - in this case, a loan signing and very recent. This lad has increased my confidence levels that Saints can stay up this season! No pressure Lesley.

Apple?

I'd be very downbeat if McCarthy, Stephens, Smallbone and Mara were represented in our strongest 11 for the season.

Nor can I, but it's sounding and feeling like a smart bit of business.

Think it was Tadic' first Saints game v Everton? He and Clyne combined on the right flank for a sublime goal. Respect for Koeman straight away.

Excited by the signing of Mane, and the early Saints career moment he drew a penalty against Arsenal hinted at what was to come. Might sound strange but the loan and subsequent permanent deal for KWP was exciting too. Found it satisfying that sourpuss Mourinho in particular and even Poch missed a trick in underrating and offloading the lad - to our great benefit.

Might be time for a walk round the block.

It's a very good Championship team - with THB, Downes and perhaps Sugawara as probable Prem standard.

It's certainly going to help this season (as a Saints supporter) if you're a fan of the underdog; as I am. Wins, hopefully at least ten, and draws in certain games need to be celebrated long and hard.

Is he still with us? Life always seemed such a pessimistic struggle for him.