austsaint

What's your take on Mr Jones now LD? Less bullish?

Sparky's got a few credits in the bank compared to this knob.

I take my hat off to you Rivers. A devastatingly accurate synopsis of the turbulence which has been building up since Jones came through the door. Yesterday was surely the endgame of his 11 or 12 week joyride. And your summary is a suitable epitaph of his Managerial stint at SFC....I hope.

It's interesting that you haven't mentioned Elyounoussi - though you are quite right to call out the performances of Diallo and Perraud (was he really that bad?), the foundation for that debacle was the starting front four put out by Jones. Adams isolated playing the lone striker role; how many times have we seen that fail. If Armstrong had started in place of the serial disappointment Elyounoussi there would at least have been more pace and support for Adams. As it was we had the pace of Edozie on the right and three slow, un-athletic types filling the other three roles - predictably it led to no cohesive pressure or threat on the Brentford goal and no press or threat to their defence and midfield playing out from the back. I'd like to read other people's views but JWP isn't up to the 10 role or the permanent attacking midfield role - he just doesn't have the athleticism or pace/trickery with the ball at his feet. He needs to play the CM role with a player like Lavia, and at the opportune time, get forward, make runs into the box to use his technical skills. Let's be honest, Brentford were a far superior side, repeatedly slicing through the many gaps in midfield and defence. If not for Salisu, it would have been a more humiliating defeat. The new boy Sulemana looks a good one; Paul O. looked a little like a lumbering Peter Crouch but surely will get better. It's all been said about Jones. He must go - Ankersen and co have to act. There's a malignancy about Jones that is going to cripple the Club as long as he remains. Even if relegation is inevitable, the Manager must be sent on his way. Maybe the goodwill of supporters is not important to Ankersen, but if he did own his error and act immediately, it would be well received and galvanise the Club towards a better last 17 League games. Ideally a Benitez or Bielsa, but at this stage most would settle for Selles as a caretaker

Sadly, hoping for West Ham, Leicester and Everton to screw up looks a different proposition to Burnley, Watford, Norwich, WBA, Cardiff in recent years.

Yep, pretty much agree. I assume you mean hopefully no place for Lyanco. Thing is if Jones can settle on Salisu, ABK and DCC as our best CBs - there will be plenty of Football for each of them in the 18 games left - especially if Perraud isn't doing well at LB and the Salisu option is taken up. You could well be right about Salisu's confidence - there has been a lot of change around him since Jones came through the door.

Depressing, but prescient. What about if Ankersen bites the bullet, sends Jones packing soon, and gets a Benitez, Bielsa, Big Sam through the door?

Not often I disagree with you but I still see Salisu as a top tier CB in the Prem and comfortably our best CB alongside ABK and Caleta-Car who apart from a below par game against Newcastle, has been very impressive. If the argument is that ABK hasn't had enough Football post World Cup, Bednarek hardly played while he was at Villa and was just a fair performer the other night v Newcastle. We've seen time and again the limitations of Bednarek and Lyanco. There's 18 games to save a place in the Prem, and Salisu, ABK and DCC are clearly better players than the two likely to line up today. All three have sufficient height to defend set pieces and while I'd prefer to see us play two specialist full backs with KWP at RB, Salisu is a good fill in at LB if that change is needed.

Salisu, DCC, ABK......daylight.

What makes that explanation farcical is playing Bednarek the other night (ok, he wasn't awful but we have three much better CBs) who had hardly played during his loan period.

We do have three better CBs than Bednarek and Lyanco. Let's hope Jones can see that and concentrate the last 18 League games with CC, ABK and Salisu sharing the load - play Perraud more with Salisu a back up for him in some situations.

You can do better than that Nick. You've had a lot to say on this topic, but not really presented a case for why Jones should stay except for the need for positive support for the Manager. I'm no supporter of Ralph - he should have been shown the door long before he was; yet for a couple of seasons he set the team up with an energy, press, quick movement and passing which we will never see from Jones. Jones has a better squad of players now than Ralph ever had, yet we see baffling formations, changed team selections and an incoherent style of play. Like I said - if we stay up; it won't have a great deal to do with NJ. How about you tell the forum what he's done to earn your support apart from a belief in positivity.

I'm confident in saying that if things do turn round, and we do stay up - it will be despite Jones efforts, not because of them. The best 11-14 players we have now are capable of pulling SFC out of this hole. It will be up to the players, Maybe Selles will step up to the plate; but Jones won't be the one "turning things around".

Especially if the bulk of the new players - Alcaraz, Sulemana, Onuachu, Bree, Orsic (need to see something from him) all stay should we be relegated. Add those to say at least one of Salisu, CC or ABK; Perraud, Edozie, Diallo, Arma, Mara, Djenepo - and you probably have the nucleus of a side who could bounce straight back.

He was surprisingly good in the second half, even if Newcastle had put the cue in the rack, which gave him more time and space to get forward. He did show a turn of pace, an eye for a pass and a good quality cross. Defensive qualities still a question mark and the problem in playing him is it relegates our best outfield player (along with Lavia) to being played out of position.

It wasn't close at all. It was decided after 20 minutes - and that was down to Jones team selection and structure. He deserves all the stick he gets.

Yes, the midfield without Lavia was a huge mistake by Jones - but, more so his starting back 5. Lyanco at RB instead of KWP, Bednarek instead of either ABK or CC, throwing Bree in (who did show attacking skills in the second half) at RB and playing KWP out of his best position. These, together with Lavia's absence, were the decisions which handed the place at Wembley to Newcastle inside of 20 minutes. After that Newcastle were cruising - the spectacular strike from Adams doesn't paper over the fact that Jones picked the wrong team and the wrong structure from the start.

Should not have been selected (except for back up) - nor Diallo, nor Bednarek, nor Lyanco.

Yes, any further improvement we see in midfield will be down to the addition of Alcaraz - a very good player in the making. Agree too that JWP playing further forward isn't the long term answer - it worked once, but he's better working around Lavia and leaving the attacking midfield role to Alcaraz. Our defence is doing ok because the likes of Bella-Kotchup, Caleta-Car, Salisu, KWP are class players - nothing much to do with Jones, who if anything has tinkered with the balance by too much reliance on Lyanco and Salisu to fill FB roles at the expense of a specialist LB and the attacking flow we get with KWP at RB. Ralph had run his race but Jones isn't the right replacement. If we stay up it will be because there are 7 or 8 very good players at Jones disposal.

One of your best, Fella.

I take your point - I suppose I trusted Koeman's judgement and credibility much more than I trust Jones. Also, I see RB cover in the January window as right down the list of importance and need. After all, there is Lyanco, AMN and even Ward-Prowse.

Two big differences surely - Pelle had just scored 50 goals in the past season (Eredivise) and Koeman had a stack of credibility as a player and Manager prior to linking up with us.

I've got as many doubts about Jones as the next punter, but why would an underwhelming back up like Bree be starting ahead of a class act like KWP anytime soon.

I've always though that a taunt like Murphys is childish and out-of-line. By all means try and humiliate or belittle an opponent with skill or strength - but the prolonged waving off was poor. Caleta-Car showed good restraint. I'll be hoping Murphy gets clattered in the return leg.....as long as it doesn't draw a red card!

He was more than good enough tonight. Surprisingly so. A couple of wayward passes at the end of his shift, but he and Alcaraz were terrific in midfield. Would agree though, that overall in his Saints career he has not been good enough