CamberwellSaint

Who do we think Juric would pick if he was wanting a team from our lot who has the fitness and aggression to press? [or at least try to] Ramsdale Walker-Peters Harwood-Bellis Wood Manning/Sugawara Downes Ugochukwu Dibling Lallana Fernandes Archer I'm an optimist: Fulham 1-2 Saints [Archer and Fernandes]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/dec/20/southampton-ivan-juric-head-coach-russell-martin

You couldn't post a link to this could you? I've searched and only religious stuff and old TSPs are coming up. Thanks!

I know that belongs on the Gillingham thread- my point was- there are still players who need to go, and areas of the team where we're bare even now. Also that I'd trust Martin to know what the issues are, even if he doesn't get every decision/judgement call right. If he plays his on-paper best team he's basically setting himself up to have to do pre-season again on 1st September. So I think we should expect another balancing act against Norwich. I'd take a draw where we play well and come from behind.

just watched the Gillingham highlights and the Russell M interview afterward- It doesn't seem like you need to be Inspector Morse to work out that Djenepo, Adams, Onuachu, Perraud and Mara were the targets of Russell's "maybe think they're Premiership quality... not enough intensity, going off piste" remarks. Also: what on Earth is up with Bella-Kotchap, Sulemana that they can't even be worth some minutes in a change-the-whole-first-11 game like this? It was refreshing that Martin seemed to acknowledge his own mistakes and over-optimistic view of some of the players' attitude. That set-piece coach has got his work cut out!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/20/swansea-michael-duff-manager-russell-martin-southampton?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other The Grauniad’s football people seem confident it’s happening soon.

I see others have already noted this. There's nothing wrong per se about NJ doing this; I'm sure it was a laugh for all concerned at the match. Anyone serious about being a Premiership manager would not do this after being sacked. It screams small-time, small-town, local-league-level mentality. Do you remember Jeremy Corbyn going to a local constituency garden party fund raiser for learning-disabled homeless single parents, the day after he won the Labour leadership vote? Exact same problem. Nothing wrong with that as far as it goes. But when you've volunteered to go into bat against the big boys, you've got to leave this stuff behind. Corbyn never did, and NJ didn't either. Bit of politics there. My name's Ben Elton. Anyone wondering if the club did the right thing in jettisoning NJ [after Chelsea I'm sure there's not many], should have their minds put at rest by this.

Good point. We have been fed quotes from JWP/Diallo that kind-of say the players liked Jones, and also some unattributed stuff about "the players are behind NJ" from the Twitter bot-accounts etc etc. What we didn't ever see was the players acting or playing as if they like Jones. [training galleries with no smiles and no eye contact etc] I'm even more impressed with Selles managing to give Jones zero credit in public, and to do so very calmly and without drawing attention to the fact he's happy to see the back of him.

Interesting RS referenced 4-2-3-1 as Benitez' signature formation, obviously very influenced by Rafa. It shouldn't be difficult to get our best players in their best positions in that formation: GK [actually not sure who our best is] KWP DCC Salisu Perraud Lavia JWP Sulemana Alcaraz Orsic Onuachu Bench: ABK, Aribo, Diallo, S Armstrong, Edozie, Mara, Elyounoussi, AMN Squad, for use in emergencies only: Walcott, A Armstrong, B******k, Lyanco, Bree, Djenepo [on the assumption that Che is out injured]

That's very funny. People who interview well and turn out to be toxic are usually a bit brittle and shiny at interview, and don't respond well to unusual questions where they just need to be a human being to answer them. Selles sounds like he's got a very clear idea of what kind of human being he is [also v impressed that he could rattle off a list of coaches who's inspired him, and why].

If I was the board I'd be asking any prospective manager how they would handle having as capable and ambitious a guy as this already in the "village"...

Well that press conference was a breath of fresh air. Agree with plenty that's already been said: articulate, reflective, thoughtful, a dash of steeliness, some actual ambition of his own, emotionally literate, can express himself using actual ideas and actual examples, can clearly handle the media well enough without resorting to bullshit or defensiveness. It shouldn't be a lovely surprise that we have a manager [however temporary] who can do this, but it is- not just after the repetitive cliches and passive aggressive petulance of NJ, but also compared with Ralph's slightly distant, aloof style. If he's serious about wanting the job permanently, I can imagine him interviewing very well. I wonder what his metrics and Points Of Reference are like? Most importantly, if he can speak to the media like that, we can be hopeful that he can communicate with the players too.

For those with plenty of time on their hands today, here's a Jesse Marsch webinar. It's refreshing to have a manager who could even begin to talk engagingly about football in general. I think we're going to concede goals, and probably frustratingly easy ones sometimes, but there's a decent chance we'll have a team to be proud of.

Reasons to be positive- Marsch's approach has worked best against the better teams, who are all we really have left to play...

The usual cliches "would like to thank X for his work while at the club' or "would like to wish X the best for the future" are trotted out even when things haven't ended well. The fact that the club wouldn't even get these out through gritted teeth, speaks volumes about how divisive and unliked he made himself.

Absolutely this. I just watched his post match interview after Forest beat Leeds last week; he is unbelievably calm for a manager staring the sack in the face.

He talks clearly, positively, with a little charisma, a little humour. He's articulate, thoughtful, and you can hear and see he's thoughtful. He doesn't have to say "I'm a thoughtful manager" [as someone we know might do]. He knows how to talk to people without winding them up or sounding prickly. Given we are in 20th, 3 points adrift, 3rd manager of the season, divided board... there's no real world where we get someone better. I'm signed up.

Ok, so he's gone. Good. A couple of observations: Walking straight down the tunnel after a defeat, leaving your players on the pitch [especially when you're a manager who gives it large in front of the fans after a win] speaks to extreme lack of class, grace and respect. This has been increasingly obvious for many weeks now. Given the club had been following him for 18 months before giving him the job, how confident should we be that this board can choose managers? The club "statement" on the OS doesn't even contain the usual cliches ["thanks Nathan for his efforts", "best wishes for the future"]. This suggests either that he was just as as defensive and self-obsessed behind closed doors as he was in pressers, or that the board have just a little class as Jones does. Does our board need a manager who will stand up to them?

Just listened to the presser. Not the train-wreck of post-Brentford, but still wince-inducing, counter-productive, uninspiring and contradictory. The levels of delusion are almost Trump-esque: "I've got no bridges to build", "fittest human in history", "everything positive". Meaningless cliches continually: "positive, potent, front footed, aggressive". If this is how he talks to the team [and it is how he talks to the team] they must be completely sick of him. When challenged about the fights in training: "That's a non-identity" [?!]. There was a fight- he simply can't comprehend why it happened and hence garbles the language like this. He flatly denied saying 'there are some in the village'- he was recorded saying it. Another schoolboy moment of getting backed into a corner and having to lie again to try to move on. Telling the media that you don't like the way your comments were reported is like telling teacher you didn't like the way they marked your homework: petulant and tone-deaf. Every time he says 'in terms of stuff' and 'in terms of certain things' he sounds like he wants to know about running an elite football team, but doesn't. He's thrown DC-C under the bus [again!] "Suspension meant he was de-conditioned" [?!] Implies that DCC doesn't train well enough to keep himself match fit. Will everyone who's had a suspension have to play with the kids for a week? The way the club cut the film abruptly after "Which stats?"/"Everything positive", suggests things broke down at that point. The idiotic "running stats, aggression stats" comments will have been interrogated and Jones won't have been able to cope. The press gave him every chance to not talk about Luton, and what did he start talking about again under no pressure whatsoever? There's a Alastair Campbell quote about politicians whose scandal stays on the front page for 7 days are doomed. Jones has been talking about himself, not his players for a lot longer than that. The press might be wankers, but they can smell a bull-shitter who's out of his depth, and they will keep going after him.

That was kind of my point- Kompany's speaking off the cuff, no rehearsal, informal squad meeting, conversational style. He still manages to make more sense and be more engaging than anything Jones has said publicly in more than three months. If he was magnetic and inspirational in training, you can be sure the club would mic him up again. If what the club puts out from Jones for public consumption is the best there is, how *bad* is he behind closed doors?

Good point- I remember this now from when he joined. Surely there's a PR easy win here- get Jones to soft-ball interview Alcaraz in Spanish. Wonder why Ankersen and his allies on the board haven't done something so obvious that might get some fans more disposed to Jones?

Have to confess I'd never noticed we did a training one. Just watched it. It's embarrassing. "quick quick quick", "eh bit of personality", "if we can now start enjoying ourselves", "is there a bib?", "everything nice and sharp and fast and penetration". "can we have that voice and enthusiasm". Having been with the players for a few weeks at that point, its genuinely appalling that he's barking cliches and School-Team-Dad stuff at them. Do you notice that none of the players are looking at him? If this is what the club media people thought was the "best bit", can you imagine what the worst was like? Very difficult to believe that the dressing room as a whole is playing for him now, even if Bree is.

I know some people think its getting a bit of a pile-on with Jones [I don't- he blamed the fans for his own decisions], but can anyone imagine Jones speaking as eloquently, articulately, respectfully, calmly... in a second language?

What I would go for: Bazunu KWP DCC Salisu Perraud Alcaraz Lavia Sulemana JWP Orsic Mara Tall Paul for Mara if need be. A Armstrong for Orsic if need be. Don't think we'll get that tho.