CHAPEL END CHARLIE

Compared to the fate of the nation one idiot poiltican's (ruined) reputation is of no importance whatsoever. Boris will clearly be a frontrunner to replace Cameron, but Teresa May has been exceptional careful to place herself in the middle ground of Conservative politics and might attract support from all sections of that party I suppose.

Firstly, the British people have spoken and that decision must be respected. Secondly, it would be dishonest of me if I attempted to pretend that this morning I was not profoundly worried about the economic and poltical future of this nation. More concerned in fact than at any time since the dark days of the 1970's. So my congratulation go to the leavers on here who will obviously be delighted - even Wes Tender. What so many of you (sincerly I think) wanted above all else has come to pass. I however can't help but remember the old idiom that people should be careful what they wish for - lest they get it.

Some say that if the turnout is 75% or more then this is a good sign for Leave as - they reckon - that many anti-establishment types who do not normally vote must have turned out to give the established (EU) order a good kick in the pants. We will soon see I suppose.

Fair comment I think.

Throughtout this thread I've never even attempted to predict the referendum outcome. With the polls still so incredibly close there is little point in my guessing now. So it seems then the substantial 'don't know' group will decide the issue as they sure as hell have to make their minds up today - if they bother to vote at all that is. My hope is that more of this group will vote to remain rather than leave. There is a smidgen of polling evidence to suggest that this MIGHT be true. But no bugger really knows do they? This may be the most important single day in this nation's post war history.

Thanks for that. My heart went out to the unfortunate guy in the British Leyland ad who said that his new Allegro was the best car he'd ever driven - life can be so cruel. And who would have thought that a pretty girl's rather spectacular bust would have helped sell Manikin cigars to the nation Always remember - get your Coalite in early before the price goes up ....

Managers are paid to manage problems. If you lose a player - not a atypical situation in football - then you cope with the problem and carry on, especialy given the kind of almost unlimited resources available at City. If you can't do that very well then I start to wonder why not? As for Sterling, yes he is still young but you can hardly compare a big money signing bought in from Liverpool to our home grown youngsters who hardly played last season.

Pedigree is no guarantee of success or even respect in the modern game. If it were then Loius van Gaal would still be in charge of the other Manchester club.

I just cannot share in other's sense of enthusiasm for this manager. With one of the most expensive and talented squads in world football at his disposal the record shows that his club finished a whole 3 points ahead of us last season. At the end of that season his team almost 'fell' over the line rather strode across it in a league they probably should have won. Indeed, it is hard to dispute methinks that for much of the time his players really didn't perform at what many might consider to be a acceptable level given their ability - that is a critism of them AND of a manager who could not motivate his players is it not? I don't see much value in employing his approaching departure as an excuse for this collective failure. Isn't one of the most pressing requirements for the next SFC manager is that he is willing to give our development squad players a proper chance to show what they can do - is there much evidence of that happening at Man City during his reign? If he gets the job then good luck to him. If he goes on to do a 'Claudio' then in a year's time someone can dig this old thread up and have a good laugh at my expense - I really wouldn't mind that much as long as we succeed. But right now the prospect of Manuel Pellegrini being put in charge does not fill this fan with much sense of optimism.

I think we watch this type of programmes and see what we want to see. So the impression I'm getting here that Remain are getting their point across better is surely unreliable. Nevertheless that is how it seems to me. That Ruth women is a bit of a star methinks.

Yes this is the standard Leave campaign reply to all economic critism - it has been trotted out more times than Steptoe's horse. It makes very little sense of course for the reasons I have put forward on here several times already.

Well to be fair to myself I was careful to say VIRTUALLY every economist did I not? And then you have to consider not just the large number of economists supporting the Remain case, but also the international standing of these professionals too. I'll do my best to avoid a long list of acronyms here, but the fact of the matter is that the OECD, The World Bank, HM Treasury, US Treasury Department officials, the International Monetery Fund, the London School of Economics, the National Institute for Economic and Social Research and indeed many others have all conclude that Brexit risks damaging our and the world economy to some extent. These organisations are I think widely regarded as reputable ones among those who know what they are talking about. Naturaly, you can always find someone who will disagree with almost anything. However, it is hard to imagine a more complete consenus of expert economic opinion ever be formed.

^ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36526008

At least one business has had enough of Vote Leave's somewhat 'economical' attitude towards the actuality and is to sue them over unauthorised use of their logo: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/eu-referendum-nissan-sue-vote-leave-over-brexit-flyer Well done Nissan!

So that's no reason at all to accept your opinion ahead of the WTO's then. How pleased I am that we have at least sorted that one out. As for your claiming that the numerious national and international forecasts predicting trouble ahead for the UK economy - upon the event of Brexit - somehow originate from UK politicians, this is quite bizarre behaviour even by your standards. It is not a case of "pet" economists being selectivly quoted by disingenuous politicans, but rather virtually ALL serious economics reaching much the same conclusion re this matter. I'll repeat that for emphasis as you are quite hard of thinking - All ECONOMIC OPINION, apart from Patrick Minford and a couple of his squabbling mates that is. If you won't listen to what the economists and business leaders are telling you then just take a look at the Stock Market and Sterling exchange rate instead. The fact is that when it looks like your side is winning then everything crashes, whenever Remain is ahead then eveything is either stable or recovering. That is money talking so very plainly even you should be able to hear it. Perhaps you find yourself looking forward to a oh-so-comfortable retirement free of any real concerns about job security, money, or the health of our economy. Lucky you. Millions of your fellow citizens however really can't afford the indulgance of voting themselves (and their children) poorer this coming Thursday. I know that because I'm one of them. Not that I really expect that you are capable of comprehending this simple truth of course. .

YeP - there is no dispute that the UN does not set our VAT rates. Great point.

On that logic we should also quit our permament seat on the UN Security Council because we have to share power on that body too. Hmmm ....

Rest assured that there is no need to inform me that I am not your "pal". With what I have come to recognise as a typical degree of duplicity, I see you are now implying that forecasts of economic turmoil and decline that may well lay ahead for the UK economy originate from politicians, when every man (and his dog) on here knows that virtualy every serious economist predicts this and they are supported in that assessment by the majority of our business leaders. This is beyond clear now. Your only reply to this key point is to endlessly parrot deeply unconvincing Vote Leave accusations of corruption and/or incompetence against all those who disagree with their view. How very convenient. As for your blithe assumption that the UK can somehow quickly and easily form new trading arrangments with other nation states this attitude betrays your abysmally poor understanding of the complexity of the issue. More significantly, this also flies in the face of authoritative advice offered to the British people recently by the head of the World Trade Organisation : https://next.ft.com/content/745d0ea2-222d-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d But if you can provide any reason at all why people should take your word for it ahead of the WTO's Roberto Azevêdo then by all means give it a go. Indeed, I can hardly wait ...

Whenever you see aging right-wing 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' types (such as yourself) attempting to score petty pints about spelling etc (and then keeping score!) you know full well that this is always a telling insight into their character - so please carry on. As for my comprehension I read you like a book - all that petty predudice, xenophobia and longing for a past Britian that only looks such a fine place through the lenes of rose-tinted spectacles. It's quite pathetic really. Yes both sides are indeed engaging in propaganda, I have conceeded that very point several times on here already - do try to keep up. But there is a difference I think between spinning the evidence and facts of the matter to within a inch of their life and then outright lies - such as the notorious '£350m a week' whopper your side still clings to I note. You defend every other offence against reason Project Squalid come up with, so why not defend that one if you can.

Backtracking already Wes? You were attempting to draw some (bogus) analogy between Switzerland deciding not to join the EU (at this time) with the impact our leaving the EU would have now. Not only are the two situations not very comparable, they are I think OBVIOUSLY not very comparable. But that did not stop you trying anyway of course. As for making yourself "clear" this is something I can agree with. Indeed, the campaign of denial and misinformation you have elected to wage on here closely mirrors the shameless lies, evasions and predudice the official 'Project Squalid' has subjected the British people to. This has all been utterly transparent ever since this thread started. Why don't you go back to critcising spelling mistakes again? Let's face it, you're not much good at the issues are you?

You feel that deciding not to join the EU is the same thing as leaving it after 43 years of successful membership? One flew over the cuckoo's nest .... and landed on here it seems.

Look closer: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/refugees-must-not-be-left-to-drown-off-uk-coast-says-yorkshire-academic-1-7938724

I really don't know what you want me to appolgise for? Please explain. As for a long list of excuses for Man City's many 'journeyman' performances of late, if the knowledge that the manager was leaving truely did undermined their season then Pelligrini's task was a relativly simple one I think - i.e. he had only to get his players to forget all that and focus on the next game. Any manager who can't even do that is starting to struggle is he not?

^ Why would you care anyway? You have - quite literaly - spent months on here doing little else but attempt to discredit every single devlopment that might question the wisdom of your cause. I sure no one will expect you to change your ways in the last 4 days.