Gorgiesaint

I know its not a lot to go on Weston, but if Kelvin was sold would you go with Forecast or Bart? (assuming we don't bring anyone else in)

It's interesting that Kelvin has provoked much debate but now that there's a rumour that he may be going, people seem less certain that they want him to go. Bart is not the answer yet but has anyone seen Forecast play? Having brought him in, I was slightly surprised that he didn't start in the reserves fixture against Reading.

You're right with that Wes. A blend would be the answer but we are certainly hampered financially in terms of bring in experience. I fear that we will have to make do with the experience that Kelvin, Killer, Perry, Wooten & John can provide - this gives a spine to the team, but my main fear is that these players are not up to the task of performing themselves & motivating/assisting those around them.

Its a moot point Wes. At Southampton, we have the youngsters who are currently give their all. This season will tell if they are a success of failure. The older glory players were certainly not a success last season so the question is irrelevant. In terms of England, I believe the analogy that was trying to be drawn was that of overpaid, experienced pro's not actually caring. I didn't see the game last night but listened on the radio and that was the inference I got from how the performance was described. That is exactly similar to how a number of experienced pro's played for us last season.

If he demanded that much then there is no way we would sign him - 1)we would never pay out £10k per week to someone coming into the club as it would unsettle all of the other players in the squad 2)as commented elsewhere, he was never the most mobile player even in his last days at Leeds & that was a few years ago - so he has no pace & I don't remember him as quick, fluid passer of the ball - not exactly the profile we are looking for. That said, I'm really not sure who we can bring in with experience so we may have to settle for Surman/Skacel (if he's still here) unless we bring in another young player on loan.

Not seen a lot of Thomas, but if his positional play is poor then playing alongside Svensson could be exactly what he needs - its pretty similar to Claus before he started his partnership with Svensson. (and Claus also made plenty of mistakes!!)

The club had been looking for a new stadium for at least 25 years before we finally moved - Southampton longest running soap opera Lowe had a club in the premiership - imagine the uproar if we'd only paid championship wages whilst still in the premiership. Don't think that we would have lasted long. After we got relegated, then we should have cut back. That certainly was the major reason behind our current financial problems, but again who was to blame for that - Wilde & Crouch in the main IMO. I do agree with your comments about diversification, although it did make me chuckle when other income streams were debated on TSF about 2-3 months ago given our previous attempts!

and they wonder why we're losing fans!! It simply isn't good enough that whilst the youngster under JP are doing their best to try and keep the club afloat, off the field we continue to look like a bunch of complete amateurs. Will this give Lowe a decent excuse to sack a few more people from the ticket office?

Not really, its part of the increasing trend of 'undisclosed' transfer fees that abound in this age of football clubs being open & honest about transfer fees, agents fees, bungs etc

I suspect the bank allowed us to sign Schneiderlin on the basis of the players that we intended to let go during this transfer window. We've been able to get rid of some of the deadwood, but we still have a number of high earners within the club that the bank would have expected us to get rid of, Skacel & Euell spring to mind plus they may have expected income from the sale of Rasiak & Saga. Of course, if you prefer, we could just try & spend money that we don't have and see how the bank reacts - just don't be surprised if then enter administration now! -10 points this season, and a -17 point start to life in L1 - that sounds like a great plan. Yes it is short-termism, because thats all we can do at the moment. There is only one hand feeding us at the moment, and thats the bank - don't bite it. The costs are being cut, the only thing that the fans can do is get behind the team and support it at the turnstiles so our revenues increase. However, there are too many fans who are so anti-Lowe that it appears they would rather see the club die than it survive under Lowe (and I'm no fan of Lowe). If there is investment out there then we need it quick, but I would suggest that its not going to come until the club as a business is at the break-even point.

The point I believe Steve was trying to make was that our costs have not been 'small' for a while - at least while we've been at SMS. I stand to be corrected & I haven't checked the accounts, but I believe in our last year in the premiership we made a profit of £500k - which given the TV revenue we would have received does not indicate small outgoings. Many of our problems have been that since relegation, our revenue is now a fraction (a quarter springs to mind - again I stand to be corrected as I don't have the SLH accounts in front of me at the mo) but little has been done up to now to address the outgoings. Now player wages are being looked at properly (yes I know its bad to be haemorraging our best players but we cannot afford to be paying 10k per week), the debts on the stadium do not change whatever league you're playing in, management of the players wages is crucial to our survival. Back to the original point, we've not been a situation that our outgoings have been small since the dell days.

SaintRichmond - you've managed to contradict yourself within the same post!! Administration is not the answer - unless you want L2 football because we'll get a 10 point penalty entering administration & 17 points on the way out. You may be right that Lowe wants to be number one, but I don't believe for one minute that he wants to be that at the wrong end of the CCC, or below that!! Until someone arrives with money to buy out Lowe, Crouch & Wilde we're stuck with Lowe - but at least he's now making some tough decisions which need to be made, shame these were not made 2 years ago. Right now - we either take our chances with the youngsters or enter administration now (which virtually guarantees relegation). One question to the floor - if Davies and Drew go, how will people react to Skacel & Euell if they get on the pitch, knowing the 'true cost' of their wages costing us selling 2 of 'better players'?

If there was a clause in his contract then there is no way in the world Stoke would have paid any extra!! £1.3m is a poor fee for him so IMO the clause must have been written in when he signed, presumably in order to convince him to join us in the first place. I'm no fan of Lowe (or Wilde or Crouch) and the sooner we find someone with enough money to get all 3 out of the club the better. But Lowe is now making the decisions that have to be made to try and get the club to survive. As was discussed previously, we are now reaping the rewards of not cutting or cloth accordingly over the past two seasons. Whoever gave Burley £7-8m to spend has to take a large chunk of the responsibility as we quite obviously didn't have the money to spend (not obvious at the time to the fans, but should have been obvious to the chairman).

1. The pen in the corner of the archers road end which became the away pen 2. The chocolate boxes 3. The steepness of the Milton Road stand after the chocolate boxes got replaced 4. That Saints v Liverpool game & Channon's goal 5. Coming from 1-0 down to beat Newcastle 3-1 with two goal in injury time (Gordon Watson got the last) and seeing the look of disgust on Shay Givens face

So thats where the old TSF server ended up

The rest obviously don't think its a problem!!!

I go on about last season because we were so poor & almost got relegated. Some of the 'experienced' pro's are still at the club drawing their huge wage & apparantly not able to play the football we are now trying to play. and yes I do prefer us playing a quick passing game than the hoofball from last season. The season we got to the playoffs, we spent £7m that we didn't have (and look at the accounts if you don't agree). Last season was largely with the same group of players & the same manager. I don't know if there is a better chance of survival playing this way, ask me at the end of the season - but football is also about entertainment & I wasn't entertained last season. What is apparant is that JP does not believe that the older players can play the type of football that he wants to play. So you make the choice - you players who adapt quickly & have been schooled well, playing a similar style of football at the academy, or experienced pro's who don't give a monkies, play hoofball because they can't do what the manager wants & may adapt in half a season. I agree if we get relegated & there is no investment then we will be in administration, however my point was that if we had continued paying the experienced pro's (Wright, Powell, Idiakez, etc) then we would probably go into administration during this season - and if we weren't already in a position to be relegated then we would be with 10 point deduction. At least playing the kids, our affordable football as its been coined is entertaining and will probably keep us afloat financially until the end of the season. The reality of our situation is that balancing survival in footballing terms & survival financially is all we can try & do.

and derry joins the group in Starbucks - a strange sense of reality breaking out here. I'm off to read the takeover threads & lie down!!!!

Sorry 1965onwards, but you have sense of reality which seems to be lacking in some posters on this site. I'm sure people would be happy if we brought anybody in - I suppose a transfer in makes you feel that the club are doing something - leaving aside the reality that the player may not be any better than what's already here & we can't afford anyone anyway. Most realistic fans realise this season will be a struggle, playing kids is a risk (and yes if we get relegated then administration awaits) but that has to be a better chance than repeating last years efforts of buying expensive ex-premiership has beens that WILL put us into administration & will probably get us relegated anyway (judging by last seasons efforts).

It's that inevitability that you mention that got us relegated from the premiership. The players felt it & the fans felt it. The reason the kids have a chance is that they shouldn't feel it just yet - now if the fans can shake off that feeling then that would help as well.