Gorgiesaint

Whilst I disagree with much of Sundances message and tone, there is a vast difference between a fan questionning the decision making at their club and a desire to see your team relegated & go into administration.

Spot on. The really worrying thing is what it would do for Lowe, Wilde & Crouch to sell their stake in the club. I agree that in administration, Lowe would (IMO) do a Ken Bates at Leeds and buy the club himself so he could make back what he had lost. And administration is inevitable if we were to get relegated. If the youth policy does succeed and we stay as a stable CCC club over the next few years, the share price will not be high enough for the named 3 to sell and recoup their investments, so unless someone pays over the odds then a sale would be unlikely. If in the really unlikely event we got promoted at some point, I'm sure the ego's would be back at play, and Lowe/Wilde would want their chance in the Premiership (& presumably would not be under too much pressure from the fans with increased TV revenues & the return of some of the missing fans). So the big question is, what would it take for Lowe, Wilde & Crouch to sell? - gentlemen, I think its time the fans were given the answer to this question. (especially given the refusal of the SISU bid - some answers to why that was refused as well please)

And because they're Hull, you're just going to ignore them? How many games have to be left with them 3 points from the top for them to become title contenders? The point at issue is how many points we scrounge from 46 league games - yes we will undoubtably be more than 4 points from the play-offs IMO, but at the current run-rate, we'll be more than 3 points from the relegation zone.

Groundswell of opinion - Dalek2003 & Bishop LMAO!!!

The occasion may have got to him. He was thrown in at the deep end but "experiment continuity"!!! With Svensson & Thomas injured & Perry supposedly carrying a knock. What logic, if Perry had started & then got injured to miss the next 3 weeks?!

I stand corrected - however the point is the same. £13m towards what is a £20m debt (again may be wrong on the figure) would have given us significant cost reductions immediately.

Agreed - the club has to be made sustainable for the future. Now if only the £26m of parachute payments had been invested by clearing our debts on the stadium & with a tidy up of the wages, we would have had.... ...oh yes, a club with a structure that could have been sustainable at this level & allowed us to build back up gradually.

I assume by the mess - you mean our financial position. There are 2 options - 1)get promoted, which we've tried risking everything on that & lost before hence why we're up a f***ing creek now, or 2)get the club to run as a viable CCC team, paying players accordingly and not spending more than we can afford - ie the way we are now trying to go. We've already tried option 1 - Crouch should have realised that as we didn't get promotion, we couldn't continue to spend money we didn't have & cut our costs - he didn't & thats why we're now paying the price. At least Lowe is trying to get to a position where the books balance, yes we may have to accept the sale of a few players along the way but ffs we've always been a selling club. At least when the books balance, we will be in a position where we can try & defend against some of the sales.

I'm almost speechless!!!! Your hatred of one man that I assume you've never even met is greater than the love of your club? Can I ask what he's done to put you to this state - has he killed anyone you know? or has he just made some bad decisions in appointing managers in the past?

Agreed - but they can only back the team if there is money there. Someone earlier mentioned between 2,000 & 6,000 fans staying away because of Lowe - well 2,000 fans at £25 per match (avg) for say 20 games this season is £1m of income. That's just through the gate - not including merchandising, programmes, food, etc. If these 'fans' did come back, we'll be in a much better position to keep our players. Food for thought!!!

Pongo, Do you genuinely believe that by staying away, you are increasing the chances of getting rid of Lowe? And are you prepared to sacrifice the club (to possible administration/L1 football) on the way?

Agree with Weston but its not necessarily that they don't see the club being taken over, its just that the club is being prepared for life without a takeover. If, and it is a big if, and when any takeover happens then the club is also in a better position to try and take forward.

Agreed, and also to those players who may have been offloaded by now but who will still be here at the end of the transfer window (eg Skacel & Euell)

A scrappy victory over a poor Derby side - they may have been poor & I wasn't there but having spoken to those that were, it was anything but scrappy. SaintRobbie, a question for you - you indicate that winning & playing well with Lowe still at the helm won't bring the fans back, how long do you think it will take if the takeover happens & we get Shearer as manager for the fans to start wanting Fulthorpe & Shearer out because the quality of the football isn't good enough & we start to struggle?

I agree with you. Incidently SaintRobbie, you say that the way Birmingham waited until the 2nd half for Saints young players to blow themselves out and take that as an indication of how we are going to be throughout the season, but then ignore the Derby game, where by all accounts, JP & the players learnt to pace themselves through the game and finished much the stronger side. IMO you are being extremely selective in your examples!! Not to mention that Birmingham have a much stronger squad (3 20 goal per season strikers on their bench) & its no surprise that they are the only team with maximum points so far.

I'm on mobile broadband & I can't get Virgin Media to work either this week!!! Its a conspiracy because we won - they all hate us - Radio Solent, now Virgin Media Thanks to whoever posted the utube link yesterday.

With a group of young players - lets take each game as it comes. Theres no point getting over-excited about one win (even if it was a fantastic performance) in the saem way as there was no point in being a doom & gloom merchant after the defeats to Cardiff & Birmingham. Not to worried about Tuesday as its not that important in the great scheme of things and I assume that Svennson will be rested. The big one is on Saturday - we've always struggled against the so-called lesser teams so that might be the time to find our killer touch.

Had to laugh on Wednesday night, driving back home listening to GB being interviewed on 5live - 'we passed the ball well but we just lacked the cutting edge to break down the opposition' - how many times did he trot out that line when with us? I agree Scotland were mugs to take him off our hands, and I told them up here when it happened!!

IMO the club is united - the players, management & board that are currently in situ appear to be pulling in the same direction at the moment. The fans are, however, not united, are are unlikely to be until Lowe, Wilde & Crouch all disappear, never to return to SMS.

Just checked the Virgin Media site & still got the Brum game up

Given our size, we will always be a selling club. However if the fans can back the club by getting through the turnstiles and raising the income levels, and the outgoings are stabilized - we may then be in a position where we don't have to give away our players to get the wages off the books.

He's defended because he has made some tough, but unpopular decisions which may give the club a chance to survive. The alternatives are: He stays and doesn't make the tough decisions - in which case we go straight to administration & probable relegation to L1 He isn't the man in charge - well Wilde & Crouch did a fine job of that didn't they!! There is no one else, if & until any takeover comes. I agree Lowe is costing us revenue through the turnstiles, unfortunately in our position there is no alternative at present. He is the best choice from a bad bunch.

Did Bart not play against Exeter in the Carling Cup? Anyone on that went to the game & can give a quick run down on how he played?

John, as you seem to be well informed of what Lowe's dream is, perhaps you can explain it? I'm sure Lowe is trying to build the club in a way he wants within the financial constraints that currently exist - no right-minded person would do anything else, but to say that the threat of administration is masking the real agenda is laughable. If you believe that the board are 'claiming poverty and howling derisions of administration' then I suggest you take a look at the accounts. These are not fabrications, they show the true picture of our financial position and it paints an extremely dark picture for the club financially. Lowe is making unpopular decisions - making popular decisions such as giving Burley £7-8m to spend on useless players when we should have been cutting costs is part of what has got us in this mess. Now I want Lowe (& Wilde & Crouch) out of our football club as much as the next man, but until someone stumps up £50m to buy us then we're stuck with where we are now. Lowe is doing what he did before - which is to try & run the football club as a viable business, something which we need to do as a plc.

Thanks Weston. As Arizona pointed out, it seems a strange signing unless we thought Kelvin was going at that time as we already had plenty of cover. And the OS didn't make it appear that we were signing him just as cover - 4th choice at Spurs to 3rd choice at Saints is hardly a step up!!