saint in Den Haag

See West Ham linked to Kalvin Phillips (apologies if mentioned earlier, only looked at last 2 pages) If it happens, hopefully that involves a buy either now or the summer… Downes must be thinking WTF and if we go up hopefully gives us a better chance of getting him.

Great find.. that’s one that would definitely slip under the radar especially if the media team don’t release anything. the bloke is only 25, so interesting first of all that we wanted to replace Anders given Calderwood came in to increase coaching numbers. Also maybe telling we have offered the job to a youngster.. so obviously feel we can take a risk on a high potential young coach rather than another seasoned pro. doubt we will ever see him mentioned again but I like the idea that was well as young footballers, young coaches are being given the chance to show their potential at Saints.

Like most, i am not too bothered about missing out on Paintsil - it all seemed unnecessarily difficult and as someone alluded to, would we have been in for him if we weren't trying to get rid of onuachu. does anyone recall any other links this summer to wide forwards? surely with the faffing of Paintsil with leeds first off we would have known it was unlikely and hopefully started options B & C also surely Chelsea have far too many players on the books currently - any young talented players in their U21's getting a bit old now that might drop down for a loan? not that i am suggesting we do - but intrigued what will happen to Broja this year. he may well get a fair but of bench time but will be a shame if he struggles to challenge jackson, Nkunku, Palmer etc.. after a bad injury - 6 or 12 months playing regularly in the championship or abroad could be good for him

I think squad size is definitely going to be a factor on who leaves this week. RM has said even recently that there are still 2 training sessions with the group split. So if we simply assume 2 players per position, then my educated guess is that we will aim to see another 4 players leave without replacements. But if we loose a player deemed as 1st team we will replace. Also will have a U18/U21 player a challenger for each position. my view FWIW below. leave and not replace - McCarthy, Aribo, Moussa, Onuachu Will be replaced if leave - KWP, Che, Kameldeen. based on current formation of 4-1-2-3 that we have been playing GK - Bazunu, McCarthy, Lumley, Bycroft (on website 1st team profile). I think McCarthy is on our list to try and loan out or at least a very small fee. Lumley coming in always seemed to be odd as a number 3. But having bycroft as 3rd keeper makes sense for a development perspective. LB - Manning and Larios. No change needed and Meghoma is U23/U18 challenger. RB - KWP and Bree.. the links to the Leeds RB might make me think 1 of these is off. I even wander if it’s Bree given he does not suit the tactics and was one of the ones who were aimed at in the league cup defeat… also find it odd links to KWP have been very quiet, honestly I thought he would have been linked and gone from the start… Abu would be the U21 challenger here. CB - Stephens, Bednarek, Holgate, ABK. - links to Wood says likely ABK going and interest in Germany is clear. Not sure who a U21 challenger is here, but Abu was mentioned as being able to play across the back line and of course Shea can drop in here. DM - Shea & Downes. both new and set. CM - S.Armstrong, Charly, Smallbone, Aribo. We clearly have some strength here as I am sure Downes can play further forward and with Arma playing his best so far in this deeper role just makes me think that Aribo is expendable. Having been 1st team at Rangers and at his age he really should be in the 1st 11, so don’t think RM will be too fussed especially with Doyle getting minutes in pre-season and very much in the thinking. Plus the rumour of the Norwegian player from the Dutch league. Attacking wide Left. Edioze and Fraser. Does not look to change Attacking wide Right - Sam AA - gap? Attacking wide unknown.. Kameldeen has been injured and Moussa not played. I know they are typically LW but don’t think we can say for sure where RM would play them. The links to the Genk RW would say to me that 1 is gone at least, and maybe both but still not sure if RM wants to place too much on Sam AA early on. ST. Arma, Che, Mara, Onuachu. No doubt we are looking to shift Onuachu. RM had said words in the past that suggest he likes Mara and at 21 could be deemed as the 3rd person / challenger. so with Arma being multi positional I think if Che goes we will replace and has been said by RM. On a side note regarding Piroe, I was annoyed he went to Leeds, but genuinely think RM is happy with his forward line of Che, Adam and Mara and it sounds like nothing was clear cut for Che and RM wants him to stay. So if we went for Piroe then then Wilcox and RM would have had to be 100% on getting rid of Che this window and it feels that’s 50/50. It is a gamble though and maybe why we have feelers out for the Sunderland and Aberdeen striker so we can move late if we need to.

Watching the team sheet get announced online and then the match text on the bbc, I was surprisingly not too annoyed at either. My brain over my heart was happy for the massive cracks to be shown that the Sheffield Wednesday performance could not paper over… and going by RM’s post match comments the result is what we want it to be (hopefully). this was not a competition I was fussed about, so happy for the ‘B’ team to prove their worth (or not as it shows) If this was the FA cup after the engine had properly warmed up then yes I would be properly pissed but this early in the season with a squad that is not what Russell wants, then I am ok with the result as hopefully it will accelerate some decisions. my take on what I think this means with the squad GK - can we dream that McCarthy is going?. The lumley signing felt like a direct challenge to McCarthy. The question is how much of a financial hit are we willing to take on him. The Palace rumours sound promising- fortunately Hodgson was not the manager who signed him originally then let him leave after 1 year. CB’s - think this will be the first position we recruit. Lyanco is as good as gone and we may end up accepting some of the earlier lower proposals from the Brazilian clubs. If Kotchap goes then this could be 2 incoming. FB’s - feels like there will be movement. My guess is that RM wants KWP as 1st choice and based on tonight Bree is not tactically up to it (currently). So there will prob be a right back signing - whether it’s bree or a KWP replacement. LB - Perraud likely going and hope manning, larios and Meghoma will cope as back up. DM - pivot. Smallbone is owning this role with Charles as back up (assume Lavia is going). CM’s - also going to assume JWP will go. So leaves Alcarez, S Armstrong, Aribo. - think we will see 1 come in here. Grimes is the obvious and may mean smallbone plays more forward. Attacking WM - RM obviously wants Tella, Edioze, SAA, and Kameldeen - if they all stay then probably no one in. Moussa and Mara on the list of departing - although sounds like RM sees something in Mara. ST - feels like Armstrong is the favourite and Che might have been on RM’s sh*t list after tonight with regards to playing with their heads not in it. So likely Che goes with Prem interest and 1 person in. also assume big Paul is gone with a financial hit to allow us to bring someone in ( squad size wise)

I have not made my mind up yet about Martin. but got thinking about the comments made so far that allude to doing better, and going for proven experience etc.. we are not the 1st team to be relegated into the championship with potential some decent cash from sales. So had a look on trasfermarkt to see who are the best managers from a points per match perspective over the last 10 years. Simply to see who has actually been employed or more likely who was persuaded to join This is open to interpretation but the only managers that stood out as a true coup are Rafa and Bielsa. Have to admit to not sure if Nuno Espírito Santo fits here as no idea if his record in Portugal meant wolves pulled a blinder to get him there are a few who I might qualify as lucky gamble ie their standing in the game and early success albeit in very different leagues paid off and would be kompany and Carrick then there are those who had done well in higher or other leagues but then also failed at clubs. I put silva in this category. He was out of work for 18 months before Fulham called. the rest had good reputations at clubs but made their name with the club who gave them a chance to step up. Farke, Xisco Munoz, Dyche, Parker Whether you agree with the above, the thing that stood out for me was overall it did not come across as an exciting list but reflects what pulling power championship clubs actually have (not great). One poster earlier mentioned felt we have probably been burnt too much by the Nathan Jones appointment and this clouds our view of another mid table championship manager who had good metrics. I still feel managers suit clubs at certian times. Look at Koeman, absolute perfect timing for us and loathed at Everton. Sometimes it just has to fit and be the right time. Jones may still have worked if we appointed him in the summer or right now (media training apart). https://www.transfermarkt.com/championship/erfolgreichetrainer/wettbewerb/GB2/plus/?aktiveTrainer=&saisonIdVon=2012&saisonIdBis=2022&anzahl=25&group=

I think it started to go down hill the moment he came out and postulated a retirement date. I think we have all had it at one job or another where you were bossing it but then the moment it’s gets in your head it might be time to go but you can’t leave for 6 months or so, your love and passion for the job dwindles, even if you don’t intend it to. so you are right about burn out and I wander if in Ralph’s head the balance of Saints vs spending more time with the wife and family was changing every passing day.. I just think his passion had gone and he had lost the fight a little. Neil Warnock on the other hand lives for this!! He can’t let go.

Would have been nice if Leeds had kept their caretaker manager and with Leeds now appointing Javi Gracia I am maybe not as confident as I was! my pessimistic side: could Leeds get a boost with a new man coming in? Also one interesting thing I have seen from Rubén’s time in charge is an interview with one of his previous bosses from Denmark when he was assistant - apparently they chatted pre Chelsea and Ruben discussed his plan against Chelsea which apparently went text book. So it feels like he is meticulously on how an opponent plays. Is the new Leeds guy throwing his match prep into the bin! The optimist: Ruben is a Valencia fan - am sure he was tactically analysing Gracia’s time there as much as we analyse our team. So hopefully he has a feeling how he might play… our analysts have 3 days to dig up analysis .. Gracia will only have 3 days of training with Leeds - much he can do other than change the mentality? Leeds against Everton felt like they had given up, it feels like a good time to play them. so good time to play them or unfortunate timing - we will see on Saturday! But as Ruben said, we have a pulse and we are fighting!!

Having just listened to part 1 and 2 of the press conference, all I can say is: “damn it Ruben you got me!” He is obviously an ambitious man and has been waiting his time for a team to put his own ideas across on the pitch. what I liked about Ralph ( early days before he gave up) was his charisma, humility and his passion / knowledge of football - he blatantly slept dreaming of tactics. I get the same feeling of Ruben that he watches every possible match, learns from every manager and absorbs it all. Might be wrong of course but it’s the same feeling as to why I wanted to keep giving Ralph benefit of the doubt ( it finally went after the palace match btw). so whether Ruben is our answer or the experiment fails I don’t know, but I genuinely wish him well and if the later then I would not be surprised to see him doing well at a European club in the future and getting linked to Prem jobs as the ‘young hip manager surprising big teams in Europe’ but for the Chelsea match and remaining games what I got was this is his team / his blueprint - but not much new can be implemented, so keep the good things from from previous managers but tweak game management and the moments where a difference could matter am expecting a Ralph high press expect more of the senior players (Duje, Mislav, 2x Armstrongs. maybe?)

I was not too excited when Marsch's name was linked, however, if i had to put a list together of what i wanted in the next manager after the debacle that was Jones, it would be: Be a nurturing and 'arm round the shoulder' type of manager. Speaks fluent English - can't risk miscommunication or misinterpretation. the message in training needs to get across instantly. Knows the league and more importantly knows the tactics / style of the remaining teams we need to play has a preferred style / formation to implement straight away.. it may end up not being right, but we can't keep switching ideas between each game Also has never played 3 at the back and wingbacks - had enough of that this season, for whatever reason does not suit saints. is attacking and will go for 3 points each game. - in my opinion we are too far adrift to be playing safe and going for clean sheets and draws. someone who is driven to succeed and wants to prove something. someone who is affable and comes across well with the fans / media if we go down - someone who could build a young exciting attacking team in the championship so actually Marsch ticks most if not all of these boxes for me. Although i had hoped jones would have been too but where he failed on the above he failed big time (knowing the league / obvious playing style / oh dear god 3 cb's & wingbacks! /) but at least he came across well in interviews ha i would have liked some of the foreign managers doing well and making a reputation for themselves (Gallardo, Juric etc) but does not make sense to where we are right now. So lets hope we have made the right decision this time!!!

Dman i know where you are coming from and i think his style of play at the moment with Luton is probably more direct, but everything I have been reading suggests that he is very adaptable and will choose the formation or approach depending on the scenario. he does have plan A and a B and a C With luton in L2 and L1 - by all accounts they were playing very attractive and very fluid in a 442 diamond shape. he did this cause in his mind he had the best fullbacks outside of the championship. but since getting into the champ (with Luton) he recognised the diamond could not work and technically maybe his team were not quite on par with other teams so has gone to a high press and direct route currently. rightfully we can keep bringing up his stoke experience - but the one thing he learnt was to be flexible. he tried to enforce his attacking diamond onto Stoke but they did not have the fullbacks on the CMs to make it work. he accepts he should have chosen a style that just got points first before trying to change style later on. the last link is a good read by Ryan Shawcross on his Stoke stint - still comes across as positive (somehow) so he may well start defensive and cautious with us because the aim is to get points - but hopefully he will adapt a fluid attacking approach if we can climb out and be more safe i am still sceptical cause it is a big risk - but am gradually coming round to him - still a risk mind, but really hoping he can make the players click and put confidence back into everyone. hope this helps alleviate some concern https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/sport/football/luton-town/luton-boss-happy-to-change-formation-if-it-keeps-town-in-the-championship-2899499 https://wizardsofdrivel.com/2019/01/10/shine-on-you-crazy-diamond-nathan-jones-footballing-philosophy-and-stoke-city/ https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ryan-shawcross-nathan-jones-diamond-6163373

still feeling underwhelmed, but if it is going to be Jones then wanting to understand as much as possible about his approach to management / tactics etc and came across this interview after he had been sacked by Stoke this is a a very long interview (almost 2 hours) but is very insightful. For anyone wanting to listen, here is brief summary - the first 50min is mainly about his early playing career, going to Spain, getting into coaching - 50-55min he talks about his management style - very much on the grass coaching, he wants to be hands on and coach players but how he has learnt that he can't do everything - 1hr - 1.08 - talks about going for jobs and whether its the right or the wrong time. mentions a bit about how he prepares for an interview - 1.09 - being at luton 1st time round. wanting to set a philosophy and changing the culture. - 1.23 - leaving Luton regrets how he left them. stoke happened very quickly and he did not have time to go back to the club and thank everyone (maybe parallels here!) - 1.26 - the Stoke experience. accepts it was right to be sacked as results were not where they should have been. feels he was unlucky in certain games. says he has learnt a lot. apparently wrote a journal after being sacked documenting what went wrong and what he has learnt. accepts that the one thing he should have done was to change approach on the field to just get results and then try and change the culture, philosophy slowly afterwards. - 1.42 - he immerses himself fully into the club. if we have been interested in him for a while and this was always a possibility then i bet he has been partly following Saints , watching matches and knows everything that we know and hopefully has a view already on what needs to change (on the pitch at least) overall he comes across well - he definitely believes in himself and what he is trying to implement at clubs and has passion for the role. still a massive risk though in my eyes and not 100% convinced, but neither am I completely against the idea.

As a general philosophy, I like the idea of giving highly rated British managers from the lower leagues the chance, but you need time and patience to let that manager grow with the club. But Saints are in a hell of a slump currently and not sure we have that time so is a massive risk regards to Nathan Jones, he is not a name I would have thought would have been linked and just assumed Sports Republic would have gone down the continental manager route. Obviously he has done a superb job at Luton and if he stays at Luton this season and gets into the playoffs again then he deserves a crack at a bigger club or with Luton in the Premier League. I had no idea on how Luton play, but found some links that others may find useful. so yes the direct / dreaded long ball gets mentioned, but it feels like that is utilising the resources he has at luton rather than a preferred style. interestingly is the high pressing stats to win the ball up field quickly and then break and to have a ball winner in front of the defence, so am sure he would love Lavia! (as any new manager would). Also seems he likes the 2 strikers playing off each other... so maybe he can get Che and Adam clicking together!!! The one worry is the 3 at the back and the win the ball and quick direct approach is what Ralph dabbled with this season and it did not work, but hopefully thats a Ralph training / tactics / communication thing and not a player thing. last comment is also trying to find the positives... we have a very young squad and they need a coach that will nurture them and be more engaging. They are all lacking confidence and it felt more and more that Ralph was not the person to get that back. Also we don't have any big headed superstars on mega money that only want a headline big name manager, so I think our squad would buy more into a Nathan Jones appointment than say a Villa or a Wolves... the bottom article suggests players have improved under him, and that would be nice for a change rather than discussing how player X has regressed!! https://totalfootballanalysis.com/team-analysis/luton-town-2021-22-nathan-jones-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics https://the72.co.uk/2022/10/19/nathan-jones-and-luton-town-are-reminding-us-that-theres-beauty-in-simplicity-even-in-todays-game/

not followed this thread from the beginning, so apologies if this link has already been shared. i bookmarked this article back in May just in case Saints ended up needing a manager.. Some of these guys may have already moved on. there is a section on Bo Svensson in there who was mentioned in this thread. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10739725/Europes-coaches-clubs-like-Strasbourg-Torino-Valencia-thrive-Prem.html

I gave it an 8, but that’s a very solid 8 and if we see AMN having an immediate impact on the 1st team and Edioze getting minutes as a sub then it should be a 9. like many I really did have my hopes on a back page stealing ST signing. But I trust the new owners that were actively looking but the market was tough and prices inflated this summer for a ST. I would rather we stick to our principles than go scatter gun and just sign someone for the sake of it. my renewed optimism is also with the change in formation to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 and part of me wanders if this was always the eventual plan to migrate away from 4-2-2-2. The 3 CB experiment was a short term plaster cause of lack of natural FB’s but importantly Ralph learnt and moved on after 1 and a half games.. The recruitment focus on players willing to drive forwards who are significantly taller and athletic is so suited to the new fm. Having a natural mobile ball winner in Lavia allows Ralph’s 6’s to drive forwards as attacking threat. I was so pleased to see Diallo do this for our 2nd goal against Chelsea (to the point that even after watching it 4 times I was still not convinced it was him - he looked stronger and bigger). Plus Bella-K has license to drive forward. Then if the middle is congested they have our FB’s to spread the ball out to. I do feel Ralph wants more goals from the 2 wide 10 positions - and another bit of praise for A. Armstrong. This new position has given him a lifeline and at the moment it is his to loose. He has shown at Leeds that he can receive out wide and create an opportunity, then at Chelsea he drifted in to a natural ST position and found space. The videos I have seen of Edioze show a very confident player willing to dribble and attack. Also he seems he favours his left but the right looks good too. So i would not be surprised to see him on the right of our 10’s challenging Moi. Final credit to Che - it’s now obvious that bids came in for him, whether we seriously considered any, who knows, but your agent would have been telling you what wage Everton were willing to pay. But I think this new formation was a catalyst for him too. This 1 up top is his position now. There is no Ings, and he can be the main guy. In that role you don’t have to score but be an outlet to the attacking threat elsewhere and to date he has done that brilliantly. last word on those that left or did not quite make it out. Romeu deserves the praise and in the Ralph’s pre-match briefing it’s clear he wanted this move and we would never not allow him the chance. In the same video I get a feeling Ralph and Jan B did fall out. It might have been as simple as Jan being P’d off he was no longer 1st choice but we don’t need that tension in the squad. The behind the scenes video of transfer deadline day is worth watching. Walcott might be a weekly wage we want to free up but I genuinely feel his influence could be needed around the young squad. I do think he cares deeply for the club and will help where he can. Willy C also comes across as a good character to have around. I think Long might have added that previously so we need some light hearted elder statesmen in the dressing room.