hypochondriac

You haven't heard the discourse around toxic masculinity? What men need is purpose in their lives, a goal and empathy where people understand that men and women are fundamentally different on average and that solutions to their problems will normally differ significantly from their female counterparts. Crying and talking about feelings at every opportunity is not the sort of thing that is going to work for a lot of young boys and men and there isn't something wrong with a young adult male if that isn't something they want to engage with. Schools in particular are increasingly feminised spaces and agreeableness and so called 'kindness' (which is nothing of the sort) is what is prioritised. This starts at an early age where typical boyish behaviours such as rough and tumble play and healthy ways that young boys express themselves are often criticised by the predominantly female workforce. Go to the average nursery or early years classroom and see how many opportunities there are for role play with a home corner, arts and crafts, quiet activities that demand concentration etc. Of course there's nothing wrong with those and many boys like these too but look how many opportunities there are for other pursuits such as woodworking, highly active activities where boys can channel their energy and testosterone into positive directions. Look how many school trips are organised with the average boy in mind. Look how schools penalise boisterous behaviours with a lack of understanding that for many boys it is the frustration at having to sit still and quiet for hours at a time that causes this acting out in the first place. As they get older, children are terminally online and the discourse is terrible. Yes you have influences like the Tates but if you talk to young people you quickly realise that there is a loud online voice telling them they are oppressors for being who they are and that all masculinity is toxic. An increasing number have never been on a date in real life, many are opting out of relationships and worry about being accused of being inappropriate so opt out of interactions with the opposite sex entirely. The other side of it is all the porn that distorts expectations in relationships and that negatively impacts all young people. Boys need something to aspire to which is why Southgate is correct in that regard but they also need some surity about their place in the world now that the traditional order of things has changed. All this should start at home and parents should be giving their children a level of self confidence but also appropriate levels of discipline to treat others with respect. Boys in particular need to feel that they have self worth, that they have a clear purpose in life and that they are valued by the people around them and by society at large.

Why is our country so retarded?

Yes but the point is they are liste ING to him because of how society has treated them. Give these boys better options and stop giving them a narrative that they are bad and that it's wrong to be who they are and he will lose his attraction for most.

I didn't even know him until a couple of years ago he was suddenly everywhere. Just ignore the bloke.

Wilfully misreading what I wrote. Well done.

He definitely only read the last post and none of the others. Egg all over his face as usual! It must be so hard for him when someone says something that doesn't align with the caricature he has of them in his head.

Soggy loves a troll.

I genuinely think that in his mind he thinks he has a noble cause and in fairness to him, from what I've seen he has a point about extremist islam and societal changes in the last few decades with some of what he says. The problem is that firstly he's a bit thick and many people who support him are openly racist and just want to attack Brown people and secondly he's in some weird partnership with the Blaze from Canada and Ezra lavant who is an extremely shady character along with proper grifters like Dan Wotton and that side of things is judt about pushing a false narrative and milking his supporters for donations. The authorities know that allowing him to get a kicking in prison could be one of the worst things to happen and those with a misplaced sense of grievance about him being unjustly persecuted will feel vindicated and likely want to take some actions themselves.

It will never not be funny how crap America is at real football.

He might be a lovely dad I've got no idea as I don't know him personally. What we can say for sure as that carrying on like this and getting jailed for something that was entirely avoidable is completely irresponsible parenting. If he loves his children then he had no need to do something so stupid. He hasn't achieved anything by continuing to show that film.

And all this stuff about solitary confinement. He basically forced the authorities to arrest him and his profile is such that he can't safely be housed with anyone else. What other options are there other than keeping him away from others for his own protection? You can bet if they did anything else and he got badly injured or killed that everyone supporting him would be shouting about how incompetent the authorities are. Ultimately if he had just stopped showing the film then he wouldn't be in this situation.

Exactly. Even if what he claimed in the film was true, if you've been ordered by the court to stop showing it or you will go to prison then you can't really have any complaints when you keep showing it. It's entirely self inflicted. His kids must be fucking gutted that he's out of their lives for so long over something so stupid.

I'm quite fond of a tdmickey3 laughing emoji on many of my posts but when I get a nic heart I have to shake my head unfortunately.

I really don't get the controversy about how he's been treated. He released a film with claims that couldn't be proven, the judge told him to stop and he refused and then kept showing it repeatedly until they charged and convicted him for it. Just don't show the film any more jesus christ.

It would help if authorities ever entertained a discussion about some of the ideas I spoke about. The only thing they want to discuss is men being more like women, schools becoming more and more like social workers whilst parents abdicate their responsibilities and further censoring of the Internet with possible Internet IDs and all the problems that causes. I don't think there's a need for any of those discussions quite frankly because it's trying to stick a big plaster on the problem which is why people feel like this in the first place. Who is even proposing to start a discussion about how society treats some boys and how they are being marginalised and pushed into situations that they shouldn't be in? The likes of Andrew Tate are popular because some boys have heard the narrative about them being useless, not mattering and are told that they aren't valued by a lot of society at large and also frankly by some parental figures and people in authority. Southgate is right that there should be positive role models but first there needs to be an examination of the causes for why young boys feel the way they do and who could be causing that. A lot of the time it isn't the boys themselves.

Having a discussion that looks at the completely wrong things and therefore has the wrong conclusions is not only the wrong thing to do but actively harmful. It would be akin to looking at the problem of men raping women and then starting a discussion about how we can stop women dressing in slutty clothing and then someone praising the government because there is a problem and they are having a discussion.

I didn't question what there is to discuss did I. I mentioned a whole list of things they should be discussing. I haven't talked about conspiracy theories other than to say that largely I don't subscribe to them.the government nudge unit is not a conspiracy.

Don't look back in anger, coordinated social media posts, photo opportunities for particular groups in the aftermath of an atrocity, withholding information from the public in order to shape a narrative, newspaper headlines all carrying the same message across multiple platforms. Again, these tactics have a limit and I'm not subscribing to some grand conspiracy theory but clearly there is an attempt to shape public behaviour in a way deemed preferable by those in charge. That includes narratives around toxic masculinity and demonising male behaviour.

I just think if I'm looking to formulate government policy, the very last people I'd be listening to would be actors and victims of crime. They have no more authority on a subject than any other random member of the public. I am fully aware of government incompetence and the limits on control, particularly because I was on a government advisory panel a few years ago so know how they are constrained but if you think there are parts of the government that don't view the rise of technology and particularly AI as opportunities for a greater level of control then you're just wrong.

I think there is obviously limits on government control and I don't subscribe to extreme examples and conspiracy theories but if you don't think there isn't an effort to exert a level of control on the public then I would suggest you are the one who should be worrying people. Do you deny the existence of the government's nudge unit?

Worth pointing out this post when you accuse others of not engaging respectfully. Disappointing that you resort to this sort of thing again.

If you're Interested in a lack of discipline, I expect you'd be interested in early years and the concept of restrictive practice. Essentially teachers and carers are advised they are unable to make someone do something they have not given their consent to do. This extends as far as babies being given cards which they hand to their carer to give their consent to have their nappy changed. This policy extends to older age groups as well and then people wonder why children act like untouchable emporers where no one can tell them what to do.

I've never seen a piece of Andrew tate content in my life and he seems like a complete piece of shit. My opinions are formed by personal experience as well as working in schools for a number of years. It's hard not to get worked up when you see so many young boys in particular being let down by society and written off almost before their life has started. I don't think that's a weird thing to get worked up about at all.

What discussion needs to be had and what action is being proposed? The mood music I have seen so far is about age verification for social media and eventually having a digital ID for Internet access which is an appaling idea. A wider conversation about not demonising masculinity, about removing a culture that sees white working class boys in particular as inherently evil or a problem that need to be fixed, removing the idea that men not being able to cry is the biggest problem and that if only men could sit around and discuss their feelings at every opportunity that will lead to the solution. Idw like a discussion about how ridiculous it is that schools are now having to potty train children, teach them to speak and now giving them breakfast, lunch and dinner as well as teaching them how to behave with the role of the parent effectively reduced in almost every circumstance. Those conversations aren't the ones the government wants to have though, they want to shove a well acted drama about 'toxic masculinity' in your faces saying that young white boys are the major problem and then use that drama to further their agenda for Internet censorship, further control of lives, more stories of young boys being evil, more misandy simply for existing, no talk of how schools are setup to penalise boys and how feminised society is now in general which disadvantages young males for all sorts of reasons. That's why I object to this because the government has no interest in the actual conversation that they should have.

My objection is using a fictional drama in order to promote Internet censorship that the government wanted to implement anyway as well as inviting adult pretenders to assist in formulating policy as if they are experts in the subject. I have a similar objection when victims of crime are asked to do the same thing for the same reasons.